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Tinto Talks #4 - March 20th, 2024

Welcome to the fourth iteration of Tinto Talks!

Today we’ll give you an overview of the different mechanics of the Government part of the game. There will be development diaries going into much more detail for these later on.

First of all, we have 5 different government types in the game, which determines a fair bit of what type of mechanics you get access to. As an example, a Republic does not have access to royal marriages, and a Steppe Horde has a different view on how war, peace and conquest works compared to other types of countries.

  • Monarchy, which uses Legitimacy
  • Republic, which uses Republican Tradition
  • Theocracy, which uses Devotion
  • Steppe Horde, which Horde Unity
  • Tribe, which uses Tribal Cohesion

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An illustration from our game..

These, together with country rank, government reform, and local flavor gives countries names like “Crown of Aragon,” “Kingdom of Sweden,” “Principality of Wales.” Not all countries are countries that are based on owning locations on a map though; more on that in later development diaries.

Each country also has a ruler, or they may be in a regency, if there are no possible adult heirs.

One of the most defining parts of the government of a country in Project Caesar is the Estates mechanic. This has been one of the core parts of the game, with a full connection between the population and the estates. Keeping the estates satisfied while keeping their powers low is an important part of the gameplay loop. In this game, the Estates are also active entities and will do things on their own if they get enough power.

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Two government reforms, one culture specific and one government specific.

As time passes, different government reforms and reform-slots will be available. They can also be based on tag, culture or religion.

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These are the two available possibilities in the Law 'Language of Pleading' for the country I tested.

Something that is different from a reform is what we call a Law. A Law can have several different policies you can pick from, and several laws have unique policies only available to certain tags, religions, cultures, government types or other factors.

There are some drawbacks to adding new reforms or policies though, as it takes a few years for it to have full effect, depending on your country's administrative efficiency. (Yes, it's a name for something else in another game, but it fits here.)

Regularly, if your government allows it, you can call in a Parliament. If you don’t do it often enough the estates will start to get irritated, but each parliament has issues that need to be resolved, and the estates will have agendas they want done for their support. Of course, you also have options to push through what you want from a parliament, if you are willing to accept the demands of the estate, like changing a particular law.

Another part of the government is the cabinet, which also grows in size as you become more advanced, allowing you to do more things. This is something that can be viewed as a hybrid between EU4 Advisors and the CK2 council actions.

Some of you may remember the domestic policies from EU2 and EU3. In Project Caesar we are bringing the idea back in the form of Societal Values. There are seven that we took from these games, one that was split in two, and we added four new ones, bringing the total to 13 different Societal Values. Societal Values are primarily affected by what other actions you do, like what policies you pick in a law, or what reforms you pick. As with so many other things in our game, this is not an instant action, but a gradual change over time.

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oh look, its eu3!

Next week, we will go into much more detail about estates and how they work.
 
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Well press f to pay respects to the dream of a Joan of Arc start date, 3/13/2024-3/20/2024, you will be missed.
 
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what do you mean with "do things on their own"? Does this mean that estates can give you negative/positive moddifiers in certain things? ( like unrest and extra trade ) or would it also be possible that they can go in revolt (with units or something) or maybe even start a civil war like in vic3?

I believe it means they would have their own AI.
 
Why don't you just admit it already, everyone knows what the game is. But other then that, the parlament thingy gives me hope for playing poland, maybe we could get more realistic elections? maybe for poland you as a king would need to convice the sejm to rasie taxes for war or ask for levies, that could be cool.
Edit cause I'm to stupid and cannot make the reply work:
I know that in 1337 union with lithuania wasn't even concidered, but you need to remember that the whole elective thingy wasn't the result of Jagiellonians dying out, by XIV century the king and the state in poland started to separate and we could see formation of something that would later become the sejm, so I don't see the reason why there wouldn't be elective monarchy without lithuania
 
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By far the most interesting thing here is the Cabinet:
Another part of the government is the cabinet, which also grows in size as you become more advanced, allowing you to do more things. This is something that can be viewed as a hybrid between EU4 Advisors and the CK2 council actions.
I really hope that the occupants of Cabinet positions will be Imperator-style characters, not the fungible (cookie-cutter) advisers, missionaries, and diplomats of EU4. I want to have to decide whether Talleyrand is best used as my Foreign Minister or is better used as my Ambassador in Vienna; should I make Cardinal Richelieu my Chancellor (giving me powerful bonuses but risking him refusing to implement my policies) or should I leave him in a church job? I might hire Rousseau as my Domestic Minister as part of a strategy to reform France into a Republic, but the Nobles Estate won't like it in the short term. And so on. You are still playing as the spirit of a country, but you can tell much more interesting stories because stories are ultimately about people.
 
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My (maybe poor) attempt at making a political map of Anatolia by making the borders more visible. Looks to be consistent with the 1337 start date theory, as the Ilkhanate has collapsed in the East (ca. 1335), but the Ottomans haven't annexed the Karasids (ca. 1345).
 

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I see Achaia, Athens, Byzantium, Epirus, Albania, Serbia, Ragusa, Bosnia, Croatia, Hungaria, Wallachia, Bulgaria, Ottomans, Karesi, Germiyan, Saruhan, Aydın, Menteşe, Teke, Hamid, Ahiler, Karaman, Cilicia, Dulkadir, Eretna, Canik, Candar, İsfendiyar, Trebizond, Mamelukes, Georgia and Karabagh. I am not sure about Northern Turkey and I do not know what is going on in Mesopotamia and Iran.
 
Will it be possible to have monarchies that are basically republics e.g. PLC and republics that are fully hereditary but use RT? Florence in EU4 has the Signoria govt which tries to mimic reality with long election cycles and allowing you to elect someone of the dynasty, however it was basically hereditary - so a republic that should have heirs (and maybe a consort) but if you end up with the dynasty dying reverts to a normal republic.
 
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Hoping the game will simulate Constantinople being basically impossible to take for the first 100 years or so. Also hoping the AI won't just give it up even if you haven't sieged it. I played M&T as Ottomans once, sieged some forts in Thrace and then just demanded Constantinople and the AI gave it to me. Something like AI refusing to give up their capital unless it's occupied?
Thats already the case in EU4, you cannot demand provinces with forts that havent been occupied. Tho honestly Id preffer a system where that *is* possible but the AI simply refuses it for particularly high value provinces like the capital as you mentioned.
 
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Societal Values are primarily affected by what other actions you do, like what policies you pick in a law, or what reforms you pick. As with so many other things in our game, this is not an instant action, but a gradual change over time.
I love that taking governments actions like this isn't just press a button and suddenly it's implemented. Like in real life it takes time to implement reforms and see their effects.
 
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Thats already the case in EU4, you cannot demand provinces with forts that havent been occupied. Tho honestly Id preffer a system where that *is* possible but the AI simply refuses it for particularly high value provinces like the capital as you mentioned.
No. In EU4 you can't demand provinces in areas without occupied forts. If you siege Selanik and whatever Bosnian fort the Ottomans have conquered and demand Constantinople, the AI will oblige. Not sure about other areas but any scenario where AI Byzantium just hands over Constantinople even though you haven't taken it would be insanely immersion breaking.
 
I was really confused by there being an EU3 screenshot for a while there. But it's looking like it'll be eu3 with i:r technology, but more simulation and less "player autocracy". Most things are going to be processes you begin rather than orders you give, then get the result after the construction is finished (or instant, but you needed capital to give the order in the first place).

Will there be delays and advances towards full implementations, or calls to repeal laws/reforms/etc when they're not settled yet? Will there be soft caps to how effective the policies can be, based on efficiency or satisfaction of the enforcers/implementors? Hard caps would be weird for this kind of thing, I don't really like that eu4 Autonomy had a hard cap and any movement it would see was still at full speed.
 
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Good illustrations. I'm looking forward to next week DD.
 
@Johan

In the case of a constitutional monarchy, will there just be one leader at the helm or would the separation of monarch and prime minister be reflected with the use of the cabinet feature? Can constitutional monarchies in different countries empower more the prime minister than the monarch and vice versa?
 
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Why don't you just admit it already, everyone knows what the game is. But other then that, the parlament thingy gives me hope for playing poland, maybe we could get more realistic elections? maybe for poland you as a king would need to convice the sejm to rasie taxes for war or ask for levies, that could be cool
1. As they said at the beginning, they can't openly say its EUV because of the marketing strategy (they will make official announcement much later). But they know that we know and they don't mind, they just won't say it.
2. You won't have elective monarchy in Poland. You start with Piast dynasty, most likely early during the reign of Casimir the Great. You won't get even to the union with Lithuania, as you will have plenty of time to have sons as Casimir and continue Piast dynasty.
 
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The Borders for Byzantium are very clearly at their 1330s extent in the screenshot, meaning the start date is pre-Serbian conquests. Based on the Delhi sultanate borders from last week, my guess is 1337.
 
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Parliaments are meant to represent every kind of assembly of estates, I think. Those were virtually universal in Europe at the time, Ständeversammlungen in the german principalities, the Reichstag on the level of the Empire itself, the États généraux (Estates General) in France, the Riksdag in Sweden, the Cortes in Spain...

This.