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Tinto Talks #4 - March 20th, 2024

Welcome to the fourth iteration of Tinto Talks!

Today we’ll give you an overview of the different mechanics of the Government part of the game. There will be development diaries going into much more detail for these later on.

First of all, we have 5 different government types in the game, which determines a fair bit of what type of mechanics you get access to. As an example, a Republic does not have access to royal marriages, and a Steppe Horde has a different view on how war, peace and conquest works compared to other types of countries.

  • Monarchy, which uses Legitimacy
  • Republic, which uses Republican Tradition
  • Theocracy, which uses Devotion
  • Steppe Horde, which Horde Unity
  • Tribe, which uses Tribal Cohesion

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An illustration from our game..

These, together with country rank, government reform, and local flavor gives countries names like “Crown of Aragon,” “Kingdom of Sweden,” “Principality of Wales.” Not all countries are countries that are based on owning locations on a map though; more on that in later development diaries.

Each country also has a ruler, or they may be in a regency, if there are no possible adult heirs.

One of the most defining parts of the government of a country in Project Caesar is the Estates mechanic. This has been one of the core parts of the game, with a full connection between the population and the estates. Keeping the estates satisfied while keeping their powers low is an important part of the gameplay loop. In this game, the Estates are also active entities and will do things on their own if they get enough power.

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Two government reforms, one culture specific and one government specific.

As time passes, different government reforms and reform-slots will be available. They can also be based on tag, culture or religion.

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These are the two available possibilities in the Law 'Language of Pleading' for the country I tested.

Something that is different from a reform is what we call a Law. A Law can have several different policies you can pick from, and several laws have unique policies only available to certain tags, religions, cultures, government types or other factors.

There are some drawbacks to adding new reforms or policies though, as it takes a few years for it to have full effect, depending on your country's administrative efficiency. (Yes, it's a name for something else in another game, but it fits here.)

Regularly, if your government allows it, you can call in a Parliament. If you don’t do it often enough the estates will start to get irritated, but each parliament has issues that need to be resolved, and the estates will have agendas they want done for their support. Of course, you also have options to push through what you want from a parliament, if you are willing to accept the demands of the estate, like changing a particular law.

Another part of the government is the cabinet, which also grows in size as you become more advanced, allowing you to do more things. This is something that can be viewed as a hybrid between EU4 Advisors and the CK2 council actions.

Some of you may remember the domestic policies from EU2 and EU3. In Project Caesar we are bringing the idea back in the form of Societal Values. There are seven that we took from these games, one that was split in two, and we added four new ones, bringing the total to 13 different Societal Values. Societal Values are primarily affected by what other actions you do, like what policies you pick in a law, or what reforms you pick. As with so many other things in our game, this is not an instant action, but a gradual change over time.

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oh look, its eu3!

Next week, we will go into much more detail about estates and how they work.
 
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I've gotta be honest, I fear for the majority of the content on release just being estates now. Also, I really dislike the UI design of this title, as well as Vic and CK3. Feels like a polished mobile game..
 
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So you have basically given up all but the pretense that this is not EU5. :)

You mentioned that the country will have rulers/heirs and cabinets. I hope this does not mean that we will have mana points in some shape or form as the primary resource in the game? Can you cast some light on this point, please? :)

Will certain countries that historically had parliaments have a different version of this to other countries or additional features, or will they just have the same parliament that other countries have?
 
I hope these government reforms will have actual effects that aren't just +10% or -10% modifiers. Seeing something as separate as having feudal landed aristocracy and appointed tenure governors (Pashas) just be a 10% modifier to crown power or local unrest is worrisome.

Also the idea that Ottomans had less "Crown power" than alternative seems patently absurd, as it was the more centralized executive government at the time compared to feudal aristocracies.
report this man for being too based. big j you know what to do

also pasha = mamluk
4
every game man

just use the ottoman government image or use their triplet quadruplet or whatever tughs old man. stop using same one painting for inspiration
 
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If hypothetically speaking , if one would think, if one would image this game having a numeral to denote the order in which it would be placed within a franchise .... Would the numerals be Arabic notation or Roman numerals ? I will judge you no matter what :3
 
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The provinces in Karabakh (Artsakh) look quite strange and the borders are quite strange.
hh.png

Khamsa-Union.png

 
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I've gotta be honest, I fear for the majority of the content on release just being estates now. Also, I really dislike the UI design of this title, as well as Vic and CK3. Feels like a polished mobile game..
I mean, this game hasn't even been announced yet. It will take well over 1 or 2 years for it to even be released. The reason these Tinto Talks exist is for us, the players, to have a voice during the mid stage of development of the game. It is normal that things look weird.
 
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Project Ceasar my dead pet hamster. frfr guys, the only more subtle thing could've been if you made a trailer but without saying the title of the game once.
 
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For the date guys.
IMG_1075.jpeg


So game will start maybe around june 1337

Edit: i just saw the start date of hundered years war and it is 24 May 1337. Probably that will be the start date
 
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I'm also very enthusiastic about this mechanic. But we have the same problem in French as you seem to have in Spanish. I really hope that one day they make a big improvement in the localisation for other languages. It is good for non-English speakers to understand the game, it is better for them to have good translations in their language.
No more unintelligible sentences/names in French (or any other language)!
Yes, I imagine the localisation for names is simply done literally word to word, which creates these bad translations. It's particularly jarring when zooming out to see the political map and you see these big nonsensical names around.

I often wonder how aware devs are of this issue that they may have never encountered themselves, and given that most of the people who have do not come to give feedback in English language to these forums.

But now Project Caesar is at that early stage of development where dynamic names can be coded with proper localisation to most languages in mind.
 
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What are you disappointed with?
I was definitely being overly dramatic, my bad. I do like the introduction of pops, and the elimination of mana. I also like what I'm hearing so far regarding internal politics, through hope they some how manage to mix CK3 with Vicky 3 on this somehow.

Mainly just disappoint about the removal of mission trees and the political map mode staying solid as you zoom in, instead of going transparent when you zoom. my bad for being a drama-queen there. Passions run high in this game haha
 
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Is it possible to modify and add new start dates? In Imperator Rome and the new Victoria 3 we do not have this option and this greatly limits the modding potential
What do you mean? I played a Vicky mod which starts in 1648 I believe.
Please have a beautiful map like Imperator: Rome.
He said map will be an improved version of Imperator:Rome map, which is glorious.
 
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There's lots of speculation about the timeline of the game. Given that "administrative efficiency" has been repurposed from its original use in EU4, I think its looking increasingly likely that Project Caesar will end earlier than EU4, probably at the start of the age of absolutism (1700 or so).
In a game that will emphasize on estates and pops, do you truly think it will not incorporate the Revolutions? If anything it might run up to 1848.
 
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My best year guess is anywhere between 1328 where they start losing their last holds across the strait and before the byzantine civil war that starts 1341
 
This looks very nice and interesting. However, I hope we get information about new MT system soon because i believe despite what extremely loud minority here thinks, MTs in eu4 were great and steam reviews that last dlc's received kinda shows that.
Agreed. Mission trees are great! Give you direction on how to play and experienced player can ignore them completely and still achieve them.
 
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What do you mean? I played a Vicky mod which starts in 1648 I believe.

He said map will be an improved version of Imperator:Rome map, which is glorious.
It is possible to change the starting date, but you cannot add new ones. In Victoria 2 there were two starting dates, but in the third part there is one and we cannot add more. For example, we cannot make 1816,1836,1856,1914 for each date you need to install a separate mod. In Imperator Rome the same thing, we could change the starting date, but we can’t add new ones, so in the Invictus mod we still have one date...
 
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Your first post on this forum and you decided to do this. Tells me more about you than the 4 Tinto Talks did about Project Caesar.
I'm not sure which mechanic they are talking about, because the way it's worded makes it sound like it's something added to Crusader Kings only in CK3, while also being present in earlier EU entries. And nothing from the not-a-dev-diary really matches. Toggable laws were present in previous CK games, ditto for "cabinet" in form of councilors (and the quoted inspiration of councilor tasks). On the other hand estates are not in CK3 (and were added to Europa Universalis only in EU4) and neither are reforms. Or parliaments. Or EU3's sliders.
 
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I like the direction of this game. If I have understood it correctly, laws are similar to Victoria 3's laws and certain estates prefer one over another and they will ask for certain policies to change when you call in for a parliament which seems to be optional and it may cause unrest if you don't.

What's more amazing is societal values. I assume these will be the actual factors that impact how your primary culture looks at other cultures. This means passing a policy with regards to cultural acceptance will not immediately make other cultures acceptable in the eyes of the primary culture. It will happen gradually over time.
 
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