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Tinto Talks #4 - March 20th, 2024

Welcome to the fourth iteration of Tinto Talks!

Today we’ll give you an overview of the different mechanics of the Government part of the game. There will be development diaries going into much more detail for these later on.

First of all, we have 5 different government types in the game, which determines a fair bit of what type of mechanics you get access to. As an example, a Republic does not have access to royal marriages, and a Steppe Horde has a different view on how war, peace and conquest works compared to other types of countries.

  • Monarchy, which uses Legitimacy
  • Republic, which uses Republican Tradition
  • Theocracy, which uses Devotion
  • Steppe Horde, which Horde Unity
  • Tribe, which uses Tribal Cohesion

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An illustration from our game..

These, together with country rank, government reform, and local flavor gives countries names like “Crown of Aragon,” “Kingdom of Sweden,” “Principality of Wales.” Not all countries are countries that are based on owning locations on a map though; more on that in later development diaries.

Each country also has a ruler, or they may be in a regency, if there are no possible adult heirs.

One of the most defining parts of the government of a country in Project Caesar is the Estates mechanic. This has been one of the core parts of the game, with a full connection between the population and the estates. Keeping the estates satisfied while keeping their powers low is an important part of the gameplay loop. In this game, the Estates are also active entities and will do things on their own if they get enough power.

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Two government reforms, one culture specific and one government specific.

As time passes, different government reforms and reform-slots will be available. They can also be based on tag, culture or religion.

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These are the two available possibilities in the Law 'Language of Pleading' for the country I tested.

Something that is different from a reform is what we call a Law. A Law can have several different policies you can pick from, and several laws have unique policies only available to certain tags, religions, cultures, government types or other factors.

There are some drawbacks to adding new reforms or policies though, as it takes a few years for it to have full effect, depending on your country's administrative efficiency. (Yes, it's a name for something else in another game, but it fits here.)

Regularly, if your government allows it, you can call in a Parliament. If you don’t do it often enough the estates will start to get irritated, but each parliament has issues that need to be resolved, and the estates will have agendas they want done for their support. Of course, you also have options to push through what you want from a parliament, if you are willing to accept the demands of the estate, like changing a particular law.

Another part of the government is the cabinet, which also grows in size as you become more advanced, allowing you to do more things. This is something that can be viewed as a hybrid between EU4 Advisors and the CK2 council actions.

Some of you may remember the domestic policies from EU2 and EU3. In Project Caesar we are bringing the idea back in the form of Societal Values. There are seven that we took from these games, one that was split in two, and we added four new ones, bringing the total to 13 different Societal Values. Societal Values are primarily affected by what other actions you do, like what policies you pick in a law, or what reforms you pick. As with so many other things in our game, this is not an instant action, but a gradual change over time.

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oh look, its eu3!

Next week, we will go into much more detail about estates and how they work.
 
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I wonder how rebel system works. I hope it's not inspired by EU3. In my opinion, it was one of the weakest parts of that game. We were forced to play cat & mouse with the rebel armies who would constantly keep retreating. Sometimes you were forced to defeat their stack 3-4 times to finally wipe them out.

EU4 rebel system was a clear improvement over EU3 system.

Same with coring system. Maybe it's a bit too easy to core in EU4, but 50 years of waiting for cores in EU3 was annoying.
 
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Do the colours on the land and sea tiles hold any information on them? Or is it purely aesthetic in this view
I think it was established earlier in the thread that they're provinces on land and the salt-water equivalent (seas?).
 
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Hi! Loving these developer diaries, but I and some other friends do have concerns that this will be another game in which sliders are removed. Granularity for the map has been brought up as a key point to the current location design so I am hoping that this desire for Granularity will carry over to other aspects! Being able to establish an exact percentage tax for example via a slider would be greatly appreciated across the board for people who play this game!

People want sliders! Give the people Sliders! (no full burgers!)
 
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It looks nice, but one thing I would like is that things like those Pasha or Absolutism reforms... Can I just say I hate +10% reforms? Not that number, but the fact that it is just a number. You say you want different places to feel unique, but having a reform that is unique to a culture and all it does is give -10% unrest? Or +10% Crown authority? To make it feel impactful and give a sense of PLACE or TIME, it would be much better if it instead changed the gamerules of how you played the game.
 
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Wonderful, ever since their rework in EU4 I've felt like Estates had to be a major mechanic in EU5. It's nice to see that we'll have to play with and around them.
The map looks good, increase in the number of impassable terrains from EU4 is welcomed, hopefully army movement and fort-ZoC systems will synergize well with it.
Now, you can't fool me with all those nice location names :D . I see an Anatolian focused map, I zoom in on Istanbul. That omitted name placement feels planned. Hopefully, it'll look nice (maybe even a special script for some major locations so that they don't look scuffed)
Also, I don't know if this's been asked before but will the game engine handle negative years (as in BC). I'm sure modders would like that a lot.
 
I have a suggestion for the dev team: Please rename the location called 'Makarska' here. In the timeframe we seem to have been given for the start date, Makarska was basically a minor trade/fishing port. If the location was just the coastline between Spalato and Drijeva/Metković there it would be fine, but since it extends into the Cetina region and the Dinarid mountains, it is not an appropriate name for the location. My suggestion would be to replace it with Imotski, which was admittedly also a relatively minor trade hub, but *was* an important regional fort that could theoretically extend its influence northwest-ward. If you're open to changing the locations a bit, you would be better served overall with something like the borders shown here. Livno is located basically at the very edge of the location at it is now so bringing the location a bit south would work better for it. You would get an extra location in Sinj which appeared in official documents as a Free Royal Town in 1345 (in official documents between Louis the Great of Hungary and the noble family Nelipići), though it existed beforehand in various ways and up to today has been the main regional city for roughly the borders I've shown here in the other image. If that is not a workable change, then simply changing Makarska to Imotski would be fine, but I wanted to also give a bit of an option for you guys to consider should you feel like it's a good idea! Thank you for reading and keep being awesome, I've loved the dev diaries so far~

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I'd like to share something I think is important for the future of the game, so even though I know my comment is a bit long, I'd really like you to read it in full.

(I used a translator, I'm sorry if the translation isn't of good quality)

I think we should change the way the war of conquest works, and I'm not talking about the units, I'm talking about the way the war unfolds. I think you should be able to declare war on one or more claims, and that you can, by winning a few key battles, besieging the enemy capital and if the claims are really important, occupy the claimed territories, be able to take what is claimed.

On the other hand, occupying territories should be much more costly and difficult to maintain, but if you occupy territories you haven't claimed, you should naturally annex them at the end of a war, unless you give them back in exchange for something else in the peace treaty.

Speaking of peace treaties, I think they would represent the times much better if we could make offers as well as demands. This has often happened in history, for example, I ask for a territory and in exchange I offer commercial advantages. This would limit the need for long and costly wars.

I also believe that humiliation should not be imposed as part of a peace treaty. Humiliation should be done automatically when we win any war quickly and far less expensively than the opponent, and only if the opponent is our rival or has insulted us recently.

Another system that I think could greatly enhance immersion is a more dynamic claim system. We should be able to claim any border area, but at first the claim is very weak, and nobody takes it seriously, but by investing time and effort we could make it more and more legitimate and we could ask or force other countries to recognize our claim.

I think a similar system would be interesting for legitimizing a territory (by territory I mean a set of locations that have been taken in a recent war). Legitimizing a territory, especially if the claim is weak or non-existent, would be a difficult process, requiringi mportant countries to recognize our right to these territories.

Thanks for reading, I really hope I've given you some good ideas.
I agree that a dynamic system for countries to recognize your clam could add a lot to the aggressive expansion system. To reduce aa you would have to wait till more people acknowledge your claim. Great thinking on all these ideas.
 
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Hello. I am from Manisa Province of Turkey.

I think Salihli or Sardis (the capital of the Ancient Lydian Kingdom) district in Manisa Province should be in the game. It is one of the most important and historical places of the region, together with Akhisar and the provincial center.

On the other hand, Demirci is a place that could not be found and occupied by the enemy during the Turkish War of Independence, so it is not that important. Additionally, Gördes and Kula are also quite unimportant places. Even today you cannot find a specialist doctor in these places.

I wish you patience and success for the new game.
İ agree with you as a person lives in manisa. which municipality and neighborhood bro