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Tinto Talks #4 - March 20th, 2024

Welcome to the fourth iteration of Tinto Talks!

Today we’ll give you an overview of the different mechanics of the Government part of the game. There will be development diaries going into much more detail for these later on.

First of all, we have 5 different government types in the game, which determines a fair bit of what type of mechanics you get access to. As an example, a Republic does not have access to royal marriages, and a Steppe Horde has a different view on how war, peace and conquest works compared to other types of countries.

  • Monarchy, which uses Legitimacy
  • Republic, which uses Republican Tradition
  • Theocracy, which uses Devotion
  • Steppe Horde, which Horde Unity
  • Tribe, which uses Tribal Cohesion

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An illustration from our game..

These, together with country rank, government reform, and local flavor gives countries names like “Crown of Aragon,” “Kingdom of Sweden,” “Principality of Wales.” Not all countries are countries that are based on owning locations on a map though; more on that in later development diaries.

Each country also has a ruler, or they may be in a regency, if there are no possible adult heirs.

One of the most defining parts of the government of a country in Project Caesar is the Estates mechanic. This has been one of the core parts of the game, with a full connection between the population and the estates. Keeping the estates satisfied while keeping their powers low is an important part of the gameplay loop. In this game, the Estates are also active entities and will do things on their own if they get enough power.

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Two government reforms, one culture specific and one government specific.

As time passes, different government reforms and reform-slots will be available. They can also be based on tag, culture or religion.

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These are the two available possibilities in the Law 'Language of Pleading' for the country I tested.

Something that is different from a reform is what we call a Law. A Law can have several different policies you can pick from, and several laws have unique policies only available to certain tags, religions, cultures, government types or other factors.

There are some drawbacks to adding new reforms or policies though, as it takes a few years for it to have full effect, depending on your country's administrative efficiency. (Yes, it's a name for something else in another game, but it fits here.)

Regularly, if your government allows it, you can call in a Parliament. If you don’t do it often enough the estates will start to get irritated, but each parliament has issues that need to be resolved, and the estates will have agendas they want done for their support. Of course, you also have options to push through what you want from a parliament, if you are willing to accept the demands of the estate, like changing a particular law.

Another part of the government is the cabinet, which also grows in size as you become more advanced, allowing you to do more things. This is something that can be viewed as a hybrid between EU4 Advisors and the CK2 council actions.

Some of you may remember the domestic policies from EU2 and EU3. In Project Caesar we are bringing the idea back in the form of Societal Values. There are seven that we took from these games, one that was split in two, and we added four new ones, bringing the total to 13 different Societal Values. Societal Values are primarily affected by what other actions you do, like what policies you pick in a law, or what reforms you pick. As with so many other things in our game, this is not an instant action, but a gradual change over time.

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oh look, its eu3!

Next week, we will go into much more detail about estates and how they work.
 
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That's quite an elaborate illustration, like something out from CK3. Is it used in-game as a background for an event or a menu?

its one of the possible backgrounds for a menu
 
These, together with country rank, government reform, and local flavor gives countries names like “Crown of Aragon,” “Kingdom of Sweden,” “Principality of Wales.” Not all countries are countries that are based on owning locations on a map though; more on that in later development diaries.
Would "Ottoman Empire" be a country name not tied to land but rather to a ruling Dynasty? Whilst "France" might be tied to owning a certain portion of France.
 
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I'm guessing this mapmode is the equivalent to "areas" mapmode in EU4. Each Location has a different color, but within the same Province they have similar shades of a color.

i.e. the Aleppo Province seems to contain Locations of varying shades of orange, the Cyprus Province contains Locations of varying shades of yellow, and so on.
 
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Very interesting. From the looks of it, it seems that the overarching goal of the game is taking your nation from a feudal system to a roughly post-Westphalian system. Some questions:
  1. How customizable are government types? (Can we set term limits on republican rulers, for example.)
  2. Are interregnums a thing?
  3. When you refer to countries that aren't "based on owning locations on a map," do these have government types that aren't enumerated in this dev diary, or are they specific countries?
Also, definitely a 1337 start-date.

1 - very much
2 - yes
3 - something completely different for future dev diaries
 
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If we're going to have laws and reforms cause the state/nation to gravitate towards one or another "value", please anchor them so we aren't just constantly bouncing between extremes as Muslim states do with their Legalism mechanic in EU4. Laws should, I believe, have limiting effects in either direction. Codifying land inheritance rights, but not land use or sale rights, in favor of a commoner class should cause gravitation towards an intermediate position on a values scale, for example, scaling with the administration and being hampered by both corruption and economic woe.
 
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So this sounds like there's also a hoi4-style country renaming system, where if you change a countries' rank or government type its name will change. That sounds really cool and I can't wait for it
 
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Is the map above showing the locations of that region? also just wanting to know but its Location->Area->Province->State right? or do I have it wrong way?
In the 2nd DD they said location/province/area/region/subcontinents,continent. So basically EU4 with extra local detail, and continents fully over imposed on subcontinents
 
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Will the UI be changed (compared to an curretly basic one for testing purposes) during development?

UI has changed any times in the last 4 years and will change more before release. The current one has basically no artwork yet. (Except the images you see)
 
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When we look at the map, we can see that Karasids still exists, which according to sources was conquered by the Ottomans in 1361. Another detail is that the Ottomans conquered and owns province of "Izmit", which happened in 1337. If we look at these details, it is almost certain that the game will take place between 1337-1361. This supports the 1356 start date theory.

edit: Thanks to ValhallArchitect I realized that Gallipoli is in Byzantium's control. Conquest of Gallipoli happened in 1354 so start date should be even earlier.
 

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So this sounds like there's also a hoi4-style country renaming system, where if you change a countries' rank or government type its name will change. That sounds really cool and I can't wait for it
Beware, Sublime Porte is going to invade Empire of the Romans
(Did anyone say « Byzantium » ? What is that ? )
 
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I hope these government reforms will have actual effects that aren't just +10% or -10% modifiers. Seeing something as separate as having feudal landed aristocracy and appointed tenure governors (Pashas) just be a 10% modifier to crown power or local unrest is worrisome.

Also the idea that Ottomans had less "Crown power" than alternative seems patently absurd, as it was the more centralized executive government at the time compared to feudal aristocracies.
 
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I'd like to say on behalf of everyone: When including the call parliament mechanic, assuming it's meant to be inspired by the English parliament, which had to be called two times a year, include a mechanic which auto-calls the parliament. Perhaps even allow us to set a time interval, like allowing us to call a parliament every X months, where X would be defined by a slider. Depending on the pacing of the game though, I'm assuming it'll be a bit "dumbed down", so you have to call the parliament only every, for example, 5 years, as to not overwhelm the player (of course depending on how much of a player interaction there is with the player). Either way, having a button you have to press thorough all the game on a set time interval just feels tedious unless given the opportunity to automate.

Currently its a 2 year cooldown, and the estates does not care if its been less than 5 years, and every month after that they get more and more anxious.

so no, its not a major "click at time x"
 
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Why the distinction between reforms and laws? A reform is simply a change to a law.

I hope EU4 "government reform" system will not be reintroduced, it is a completely abstract, gamey mechanic where you just get to pick up a bonus once in a while, and previous choices mostly don't even impact what kind of options you have open for later tiers.

I don't think you can come up with a linear progression that would make sense in 100% of cases. Reforms should become available when the need for them arises organically, not because some abstract ticker has ticked up and you unlocked the next "Reform tier".
 
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UI has changed any times in the last 4 years and will change more before release. The current one has basically no artwork yet. (Except the images you see)
Oh that's reassuring, fonctionally it seems fine, but some art looks from the 2000's