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Tinto Talks #4 - March 20th, 2024

Welcome to the fourth iteration of Tinto Talks!

Today we’ll give you an overview of the different mechanics of the Government part of the game. There will be development diaries going into much more detail for these later on.

First of all, we have 5 different government types in the game, which determines a fair bit of what type of mechanics you get access to. As an example, a Republic does not have access to royal marriages, and a Steppe Horde has a different view on how war, peace and conquest works compared to other types of countries.

  • Monarchy, which uses Legitimacy
  • Republic, which uses Republican Tradition
  • Theocracy, which uses Devotion
  • Steppe Horde, which Horde Unity
  • Tribe, which uses Tribal Cohesion

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An illustration from our game..

These, together with country rank, government reform, and local flavor gives countries names like “Crown of Aragon,” “Kingdom of Sweden,” “Principality of Wales.” Not all countries are countries that are based on owning locations on a map though; more on that in later development diaries.

Each country also has a ruler, or they may be in a regency, if there are no possible adult heirs.

One of the most defining parts of the government of a country in Project Caesar is the Estates mechanic. This has been one of the core parts of the game, with a full connection between the population and the estates. Keeping the estates satisfied while keeping their powers low is an important part of the gameplay loop. In this game, the Estates are also active entities and will do things on their own if they get enough power.

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Two government reforms, one culture specific and one government specific.

As time passes, different government reforms and reform-slots will be available. They can also be based on tag, culture or religion.

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These are the two available possibilities in the Law 'Language of Pleading' for the country I tested.

Something that is different from a reform is what we call a Law. A Law can have several different policies you can pick from, and several laws have unique policies only available to certain tags, religions, cultures, government types or other factors.

There are some drawbacks to adding new reforms or policies though, as it takes a few years for it to have full effect, depending on your country's administrative efficiency. (Yes, it's a name for something else in another game, but it fits here.)

Regularly, if your government allows it, you can call in a Parliament. If you don’t do it often enough the estates will start to get irritated, but each parliament has issues that need to be resolved, and the estates will have agendas they want done for their support. Of course, you also have options to push through what you want from a parliament, if you are willing to accept the demands of the estate, like changing a particular law.

Another part of the government is the cabinet, which also grows in size as you become more advanced, allowing you to do more things. This is something that can be viewed as a hybrid between EU4 Advisors and the CK2 council actions.

Some of you may remember the domestic policies from EU2 and EU3. In Project Caesar we are bringing the idea back in the form of Societal Values. There are seven that we took from these games, one that was split in two, and we added four new ones, bringing the total to 13 different Societal Values. Societal Values are primarily affected by what other actions you do, like what policies you pick in a law, or what reforms you pick. As with so many other things in our game, this is not an instant action, but a gradual change over time.

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oh look, its eu3!

Next week, we will go into much more detail about estates and how they work.
 
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Obvious conspiracy theory: they didn't announce this game as EU5 officially because it will not have the title "Europa Universalis 5", because they try to make it less eurocentric and feel that this name would not fit.
 
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There are too many provinces. It is really good but How will you adapt this with the microbattle system? I think there will be thousands of armies in the late game and it must be difficult to bring the armies together in big wars. At the same time, laying siege to all these provinces without an advanced carpet siege(not like in eu4) could be pain
 
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I wonder if we will have good old ducats or something more like Victoria 3 currency. On the other hand I'm sure i would prefer to have loans instead of debt as it is my favorite eu4 mechanic.

economy overview is a few weeks away
 
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The term "core province" lost all meaning in EU4, as you could just turn any province into a core in a few years by spending a bit of mana. Will Project Caesar maybe have a more similar conception of "core provinces" as in EU3?
 
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Obvious conspiracy theory: they didn't announce this game as EU5 officially because it will not have the title "Europa Universalis 5", because they try to make it less eurocentric and feel that this name would not fit.

I would guess they have a company marketing policy not to announce more than one year in advance, and Johan being Johan gets to skim around it but not to blatantly violate it.
 
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Will there be some possibility of "hybrid" type governments, such as with the English Constitutional Monarchy, or Japanese Shogunate system?
Also how easy of difficult will it be to change from one government form to another? Will you have to do it slowly like with reaching max tier government in eu4, or will there be other ways of doing so?
And on that, will Revolutionary governments have their own government form, or use the ones here? (assuming the game covers that era).
 
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I think the start date is 1331.

The Ottomans own Izmit, which was conquered sometime between 1331-1338
In 1333 Serbia attacked the Byzantine empire which saw them conquer parts of Greece, which here they do not
In 1332 Epirus controlled Thessaly, which here they do not

Also another important thing is a major event happening in the start date. Well...

In 1331, The first recorded outbreak of the Black Death occurs, in the Chinese province of Hubei.
 
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All right, back to the weekly Johanology. Happy to dig in.
First of all, we have 5 different government types in the game, which determines a fair bit of what type of mechanics you get access to. As an example, a Republic does not have access to royal marriages, and a Steppe Horde has a different view on how war, peace and conquest works compared to other types of countries.

  • Monarchy, which uses Legitimacy
  • Republic, which uses Republican Tradition
  • Theocracy, which uses Devotion
  • Steppe Horde, which Horde Unity
  • Tribe, which uses Tribal Cohesion
Am I safe to assume more can be modded in? I will also say, I wonder if Steppe Hordes need to be a different type than tribe. There are likely good enough gameplay reasons and I look forward to learning the differences.

These, together with country rank, government reform, and local flavor gives countries names like “Crown of Aragon,” “Kingdom of Sweden,” “Principality of Wales.” Not all countries are countries that are based on owning locations on a map though; more on that in later development diaries.

Each country also has a ruler, or they may be in a regency, if there are no possible adult heirs.
Already more mechanics to speculate about, rank, and reforms. I wonder if Wales will be a playable TAG at the start of the game then. "Countries not based on owning locations". This may refer to countries based on a certain cultural or religious presence? That would be something. Also makes me wonder about nomadic tribes. The population mechanic opens up some options there.
One of the most defining parts of the government of a country in Project Caesar is the Estates mechanic. This has been one of the core parts of the game, with a full connection between the population and the estates. Keeping the estates satisfied while keeping their powers low is an important part of the gameplay loop. In this game, the Estates are also active entities and will do things on their own if they get enough power.
Happy to hear that Estates are a core part of gameplay. The estates being "active entities" makes me think of Imperator with disloyal generals. Does this mean that Estates behave like non-player AIs? Will they be able to interact with other countries? Will you be able to interact with the estates of other countries? Maybe we'll find out next week.
As time passes, different government reforms and reform-slots will be available. They can also be based on tag, culture or religion.

Something that is different from a reform is what we call a Law. A Law can have several different policies you can pick from, and several laws have unique policies only available to certain tags, religions, cultures, government types or other factors.

There are some drawbacks to adding new reforms or policies though, as it takes a few years for it to have full effect, depending on your country's administrative efficiency. (Yes, it's a name for something else in another game, but it fits here.)
So we have Government Reforms and Laws as two separate mechanics. I hope Government reforms work differently than with EU4 where it's just on a timer. I at least hope there's some substantial interaction with estates when reforming government. We've also discovered some modifiers and other mechanics. Estate power and satisfaction, unrest, something called "Aristocracy" which is probably a "Societal Value", going by the same thing in the EU3 slider, Looks like "Serfdom" and "Free Subjects" are another societal value. I'm afraid to admit I haven't played EU3 so I'm not sure how sliders do for gameplay. Seems like people like them though from reading the forums.
Regularly, if your government allows it, you can call in a Parliament. If you don’t do it often enough the estates will start to get irritated, but each parliament has issues that need to be resolved, and the estates will have agendas they want done for their support. Of course, you also have options to push through what you want from a parliament, if you are willing to accept the demands of the estate, like changing a particular law.

Another part of the government is the cabinet, which also grows in size as you become more advanced, allowing you to do more things. This is something that can be viewed as a hybrid between EU4 Advisors and the CK2 council actions.

Some of you may remember the domestic policies from EU2 and EU3. In Project Caesar we are bringing the idea back in the form of Societal Values. There are seven that we took from these games, one that was split in two, and we added four new ones, bringing the total to 13 different Societal Values. Societal Values are primarily affected by what other actions you do, like what policies you pick in a law, or what reforms you pick. As with so many other things in our game, this is not an instant action, but a gradual change over time.
The English Parliament was unusually powerful for a European state at this time. I wonder if that will be represented in the game. Seems like a good risk/reward system. Unhappy estates convening might be bad for certain unpopular rulers, assuming they want to keep their heads of course.

I am really happy to hear about the cabinet, that opens up some potentially fun interactions. I wonder what the positions will be, Diplomatic, Economic, and Military are likely. I wonder what expanding the cabinet would mean.

Like I said, I haven't played any EU3, looks like there's overlap with the EU4 ideas system. But if we're doing sliders I wonder how Colonization, Espionage, and similar mechanics from EU4 are unlocked.

Next week, we will go into much more detail about estates and how they work.
Psyched, can't wait.
 
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A lot of people were already speculating a 1337 date based on last week's map. This is looking even more likely from this map. Hungary owns Belgrade, which in this period regularly changed hands between Hungary and Serbia. Since the Ottomans have no European holdings, we are before the 1340s, Hungary at this point held Belgrade in 1319-1339. This is of course based on the assumptions that we are at or near start date.

Otherwise I'm liking everything I've seen so far. Estates believers may be eating good next week.
 
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The term "core province" lost all meaning in EU4, as you could just turn any province into a core in a few years by spending a bit of mana. Will Project Caesar maybe have a more similar conception of "core provinces" as in EU3?

neither like those, but something different.
 
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There are too many provinces. It is really good but How will you adapt this with the microbattle system? I think there will be thousands of armies in the late game and it must be difficult to bring the armies together in big wars. At the same time, laying siege to all these provinces without an advanced carpet siege(not like in eu4) could be pain
Carpet sieging should not exist anyway.
 
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Wow, this looks very promising. I love what has been said about parliaments, estates and laws. I am very intrigued to see what government reforms are like. The societal values seem a little abstract, but I am a big fan of their passively changing state with actions the player takes, I am very much in favour of mechanics like these.

What I am wondering - how much will the kinds of laws, reforms and governments in general change throughout (historical) time?
 
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That courtroom image looks like it has empty space on the left for a character model. Unfortunate that the worst graphical element of modern PDX games seems to be returning.
 
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Will stability be dynamic? I'm not the biggest fan of using mana to determine the literal state of your country. Swinging the scales of stability should be based on how much your people, nobles and others like you etc.
 
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