Tinto Talks #41 - 11th of December 2024

[Álvaro Núñez de Lara]

Is there any kind of mechanic, disaster, civil war/revolt by which the peasant estate can force you to grant them the privilege to participate in parliament like they did in Sweden?

 

[TornadoWatch]

What type of Parliament does England get day one?

 

[Álvaro Núñez de Lara]

atm its 5 years.

used to be more often, but playtesters complained it was too much busywork.

Mmm that is concerning comsidering how important they seem to be. You can find yourself in a very tough spot for not being able to request parliament.

Maybe there should be some exception, button or mechanic that allows parliament once a year during wartime? Maybe a simple define would do It?

 

[BasileusJustinian]

"Fun" fact: the census of Quirinius took place in 6 CE, that is at least 6 years after the birth of Jesus (10 years if we are to believe that Jesus was born during the reign of Herod as the Gospel of Matthew says, since Herod died around 4 BCE). It required that people should return to their homes (logical) instead of where some their ancestor lived 900 years earlier (illogical) and people living in Galilee (Jesus' parents) weren't required to do anything since Galilee was back then a separate kingdom, unlike Jerusalem and its vincinity which was directly annexed by Rome.

From the Pulpit Bible Commentary:

“
Verse 1. - There went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed; […] On the historical note of St. Luke in this passage much discussion has arisen […]. Respecting this general registration it is alleged

(1) no historian of the time mentions such a decree of Augustus.

(2) Supposing Augustus had issued such an edict, Herod, in his kingdom of Judaea, would not have been included in it, for Judaea was not formally annexed to the Roman province of Syria before the death of Archelaus, Herod's son; for some years after this time Herod occupied the position of a rex socius. In answer to (1), we possess scarcely any minute records of this particular time; and there are besides distinct traces in contemporary histories of such a general registration. In answer to (2), in the event of such an imperial registration being made, it was most unlikely that Herod would have claimed exemption for his only nominally independent states. It must be remembered that Herod was an attached dependent of the emperor, and in such a matter would never have opposed the imperial will of his great patron.

Luke 2:2
(And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)
Verse 2. - (And this taxing was first made when Cyrenius was governor of Syria.)Hostile criticism makes a still more direct attack upon the historical statement made by St. Luke here. Quirinius, it is well known, was governor (legatus or praeses) of Syria ten years later, and during his office a census or registration - with a view to taxation - which led to a popular disturbance, was made in his province. These critics say that St. Luke mentions, as taking place before the birth of Jesus, an event which really happened ten years after. Much historical vestigation has been made with a view to explain this difficulty. It has been now satisfactorily demonstrated that, strangely enough, this Quirinius - who ten years later was certainly governor (legatus) of Syria - at the time of the birth of the Savior held high office in Syria, either as praeses (governor) or quaestor (imperial commissioner). The Greek word rendered by the English "governor" would have been used for either of these important offices. On the whole question of these alleged historical inaccuracies of St. Luke, it may be observed:

(1) Strangely enough, none of the early opponents of Christianity, such as Celsus or Porphyry, impugn the accuracy of our evangelist here. Surely, if there had been so marked an error on the threshold of his Gospel, these distinguished adversaries of our faith, living comparatively soon after the events in question, would have been the first to hit so conspicuous a blot in the story they hated so well. And

(2) nothing is more improbable than that St. Luke, a man of education, and writing, too, evidently for people of thought and culture, would have ventured on a definite historical statement of this kind, which would, if wrong, have been so easily exposed, had he not previously thoroughly satisfied himself as to its complete accuracy. ).”

 

[Iocilin I Corneu]

Wow...

Huh...

 

[Johan]

How the Sejm work if it has a Liberum Veto?
Will you need 100% support then?

can be done yes? Shall we do it?

 

[Muhu]

How common is it to have no parliament at all? Do most European countries start with some version of a parliament?

 

[Johan]

Can you build a permanent Parliament building, which forces the Parliament to always take place in the place where the building is built, but has some positive effect in exchange?

not atm, but its an interesting idea

 

[Samgee Gamwise]

How will votes that require two country parliaments work? Like the Acts of Union?

 

[Dukemanman]

For Bulgaria it should be "Synklit" (синклит) which is the bulgarian form of the greek "Synklētos" (greek name for the byzantine senate).

The medieval bulgarian state was heavily influenced by Byzantium, especialy after the period of Byzantine rule over Bulgaria from 1018 to 1185 and this is why the bulgarians used many greek words in relation to government titles and offices.

Alternatively the name for the bulgarian parliament can be "Bolyarski Synklit" or "Bolyarski Savet" (savet or съвет is the bulgarian word for council, which is related to the russian word soviet). Putting the word Bolyar (bulgarian version of a Boyar) in the name might be a good idea since bolyars were the dominant political faction in all bulgarian medieval states.

You should not call it just "Savet" since that would seem awkward to a native bulgarian speaker as it does not necessarily indicate a government office and sounds more like the word for advice. This is why I support the official medieval term "Synklit", "Bolyarski Synklit" or "Bolyarski Savet" which would at least indicate that it is a ruling governmental body and not just some drunk guy giving you advice at a bar.

Please DO NOT call the bulgarian parliament the "Narodno Subranie" (Народно Събрание) since that is the modern term for the bulgarian parliament, which was not used prior to the formation of the modern bulgarian state in 1878.

Also "Sabor" in bulgarian means peasant or village gathering thus giving it an extremely low class vibe so I would not recommend that term and as far as I'm aware it was not used by any historical bulgarianA wikipedia source in bulgarian for the historical use of Synclit or синклит in medieval Bulgaria

For Bulgaria it should be "Synklit" (синклит) which is the bulgarian form of the greek "Synklētos" (greek name for the byzantine senate).

The medieval bulgarian state was heavily influenced by Byzantium, especialy after the period of Byzantine rule over Bulgaria from 1018 to 1185 and this is why the bulgarians used many greek words in relation to government titles and offices.

Alternatively the name for the bulgarian parliament can be "Bolyarski Synklit" or "Bolyarski Savet" (savet or съвет is the bulgarian word for council, which is related to the russian word soviet). Putting the word Bolyar (bulgarian version of a Boyar) in the name might be a good idea since bolyars were the dominant political faction in all bulgarian medieval states.

You should not call it just "Savet" since that would seem awkward to a native bulgarian speaker as it does not necessarily indicate a government office and sounds more like the word for advice. This is why I support the official medieval term "Synklit", "Bolyarski Synklit" or "Bolyarski Savet" which would at least indicate that it is a ruling governmental body and not just some drunk guy giving you advice at a bar.

Please DO NOT call the bulgarian parliament the "Narodno Subranie" (Народно Събрание) since that is the modern term for the bulgarian parliament, which was not used prior to the formation of the modern bulgarian state in 1878.

Also "Sabor" in bulgarian means peasant or village gathering thus giving it an extremely low class vibe so I would not recommend that term and as far as I'm aware it was not used by any historical bulgarian state.

I just remembered the concept of the "Вселенски Събор" or "Vselenski Sabor". However that was used exclusively for orthodox church gatherings. I still don't think it's an adequate equivalent for a parliament especially since we know that during the time the bulgarian parliament was known as the "Synklit" or alternatively the "Bolyarski Savet"

 

[titan.bevel]

We thought of broad categories that would work for several different countries. This could be possible if we'd add something like 'unique types of parliaments', which in theory is potentially doable.

Why should the parliements be separated in type, rather than a mix of laws / priviledges giving or removing access and added support for various estates ? (a bit like you did for sueccession laws iirc)

 

[Harlausbutterlord]

For the Frisian freedom it should be Upstallesbâm(old Frisian)/Upstalsbeam (modern Frisian)!

 

[livebythecreed77]

Cortes
Corts
Veche
Althing
Tynwald
Riksdag
Sejm
Uijeongbu
Senate
Congress
Meclis
Estates General
Rogati
Reichstag
Duma
Staten-Generaal
Tagsatzung
Hluttaw
Parlamento
Jatiya Sangsad
Tshogdu
Sansad
Majlis
Oireachtas
Council
Landtag
Folketing
Storting
Althing
Seimas
Mejlis
Sabor
Országgyülés
Kurultai
Upstalboom

I love seeing the Irish representation and greatly appreciate the flavour. I would say Oireachtas is probably too modern of a term first used in the establishment of The Irish Free State in 1922 and means both houses (Seanad (upper house) Dáil (lower house))

The old Irish word for this would have been Feis seen here. However Dáil or Dál might be better if there is only one to pick.

Thank you for the representation of our culture and language. Means the world.

 

[Dukemanman]

I just remembered the concept of the "Вселенски Събор" or "Vselenski Sabor". However that was used exclusively for orthodox church gatherings. I still don't think it's an adequate equivalent for a parliament especially since we know that during the time the bulgarian parliament was known as the "Synklit" or alternatively the "Bolyarski Savet"

Bulgarian wikipedia source for Synklit

 

[RhoPiEta]

atm its 5 years.

used to be more often, but playtesters complained it was too much busywork.

Is there an optional privilege/law/etc. that allows for a permanent or at least more frequent sitting of parliament? Or an ability to call parliament early if an emergency happens? What about forcing a parliament to dissolve prematurely?

 

[Mateman17]

Well, for Navarre we could get the name "Hiru Estatuak" or "Nafarroako gorteak"

 

[Johan]

Small question, reforms and laws are indeed two different things in Project Caesar, right ?

yes

 

[Ispil]

How flexible is this for modding? Obviously it's possible to mod all the various agendas and whatnot, but is it also possible to mod how support works and the like?

Could I, with enough effort, make "regional parliaments" or "bicameral parliaments" or elective governments if I really had the patience?

 

[Ivashanko]

Having local councils in the early game ask for region wide policies could be a nice little touch! Would it be possible to mod in?

 

[Johan]

I think when Johan says it's more of a Vicky thing, it's "for the majority of the game it didn't happen or wasn't common at all."
The House of Commons has existed since the 14th century, but I wonder if that means just representing the Peasants with a privilege that allows them to interact in the Parliament.
I mean, political parties were a thing, at the very least if you consider the Federalists, Democratic-Republicans, Whigs, Tories, and the Dutch Orangists and Statists political parties or rather cohesive factions. Still, I'm not sure we all expect political parties to be in the game unless it uses EU4's factions or something.

In the England yes.. but..

But in the most important country in the world for GSG design, it was introduced in the later half of the 19th century.