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Tinto Talks #43 - 25th of December 2025

Hello everyone and Merry Christmas to you all! Today we are celebrating the birth of Jesus Christ, and thus here is a special gift for you all.

So for today we’ll be talking a little bit about how it is when you start playing in Project Caesar, and we’ll start as Norway..

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We start in a union with Sweden, as we have the same king, who is only 20 years old at the start of the game. He is married though to Blanche of Namur, who in history gave birth to Håkon who became the King of Norway. The current heir is Eufemia, the king's younger sister, who is married to Albrech of Mecklenburg.

Norway is a rather big country, but most is sparsely populated and not much developed. There are a few main concentrations of population. Around the Oslo Fjord in the south, around Tröndelag in the north, and on the western coast around Bergen & Stavanger.

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These are the 6 towns of Norway, and these populations include the entire countryside of the location, including all peasants. Oslo has about 900 burghers at the start of the game. This creates a bit of a challenge, as we do not have either a concentrated population nor a big population.

These population numbers are of course going to change dramatically in a few decades, as the Black Death is not exactly avoidable.

There are a few other challenges to consider as well. We do not have our own market and trade through the Lübeck market.

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This has some benefits and some challenges. First of all, it's a market which has a lot of Hanseatic Merchants and access to goods will be plenty. The heartland around our capital in the south also has great market access. However, the rest of the country is not as lucky.

So what shall we do at the start though?

First of all, as Norway has a small population, I can’t rely on large scale raw material production, but should perhaps aim for a more capital economy. One way to achieve that is to grant a privilege to the Burghers. It will make them more powerful, but I think it's worth it.

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Another way is to check the alerts and we see that our population has some needs that are not fulfilled. While we may not care all that much if the pops in Orkney get what they need from the Dublin Market, we can at least look into addressing the needs in Lübeck.

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A lack of wine, beer and silver. The amount of wine needed is nothing I care about now, but it is clear that we could benefit from addressing the other needs.

First of all, we have a Silver Mine in Kongsberg, which we can expand.

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We currently have a level 1 mine here, and due to the development of the area we can get up to a level 6 mine, employing up to 6,000 peasants in total. There is a demand far higher than supply in the market, but fully upgraded we should be able to supply it fully. It will be an important part of our economy, and we are already able to collect 5% of our taxes only from this location.


I start expanding the mines, with 1 level for now, and look into doing more diversification for my economy. The beer demand will easily solve itself over the next few months, as either the burghers will import more, or The Hansa or someone else will import to fulfill demands or some AI minor will build more breweries.

I want to get a higher trade capacity. I could build market or fishing villages in the countryside, but for now I think a Wharf in every coastal town would be the best benefit, as they impact the proximity calculations and give some sailors as well.

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Wharfs are not the most expensive to build for us, especially with the access to lumber and masonry in the market.

There are other things to consider at the start of the game as well. Assigning the cabinet to their duties is one. As we start with 70 legitimacy, I assign a noble to increase the legitimacy of the King.


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Probably only Norwegians or some very knowledgeable people about scandinavian medieval history who find it absolutely hilarious for this guy to do this

The goal now is to slowly build up an economy based around my towns and survive the Black Death as best as possible.

The goal during the next few decades would be to build up a simple gravel road from Oslo past Hamar over Tynset to Nidaros.

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This is just a quick small overview of the start of the game in one country…

Next year we'll be back with another "bonus style" Tinto Talks, where we'll look into every trade goods.
 
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The more levels you build and the more silver you send to the market, the return on the investment and even the mine's income will diminish.

Ah, supply and demand. A classic. …Wait. Please tell me we can to stockpile to keep resources out of circulation. Especially for resources that double as currency. Can you imagine the damage just one shopping spree could have? I sure hope that never happens.
 
Could this list show the burgher population in brackets next to total population or something? So you can see your concentrations of urban population at a glance
I was under the impression that “burgher” referred to a particular class of urban pops. Does it really include artisans? That won’t mesh well with a society that has artisanal castes.
its not 25% urbanised... total amount of "city dwellers" , ie burghers, is about 3k in the entire country.
Well darn. Nothing like an “urban peasant” group? I’d like to be represented too.

From what I understand, burghers were a restrictive class that you had to be admitted into (with the rules for admission varying by country and complicated by towns or cities actually having charters, but all including proof of landownership), not just any freemen. They came with exclusive political or commercial privileges (enfranchisement in England, trade and craft monopolies in Scotland, and all of the above in Brussels).

On top of that, there was a distinction between these regular burghers and elite grand burghers or patricians (who constituted the ruling nobility in free and imperial cities and maritime republics, respectively). Although I’m less sure about them being their own estate since they can just be shown by burghers owning everything and having max influence short of a change in government type.

With non-burgher freemen, they seem significant enough to be their own estate. The English Assize of 1181, for example, specified burghers and freemen separately when mandating they be armed. Beyond that, I’d expect the non-burgher population to outnumber burghers in cities (depending on the demand for tenancy). If nothing else, burghers of that day would probably be outraged to know they were lumped in with them.
 
1. What is defined as a town or a city in this game? What is the minimum population needed for a town and for a city?
What a convenient coincidence, I was just reading something about that. If we’re only considering population here and not legal status, (gameplay) significance, or (worst of all) performance, the research cited by this paper suggests something between 7,000 and 10,000. I personally don’t think it should be just population or legal status alone, but something like both in addition to market relevance.

For gameplay purposes, it might work to have the threshold for major towns and cities be a substantial percentage difference between their share of total population and the share of total population of a town/city that doesn’t qualify. To show how they’re sticking out from the rest of the country, and also so that the number of major towns and cities doesn’t explode to where the game can’t handle it (that might be being too cautious, but I don’t know). If not that, it would be better to define them by their share of the trade volume in their regional market. You could also have a cap on them, if need be (again, not sure), but I think relying on population as a limiting factor will unfairly diminish less populated countries that still possessed cities of major importance.
If instead there was some kind of new, largest tier (i.e. metropolis), then places like Beijing or Constantinople could still be elevated above 99% locations in the game (with special buildings only available to places that large), while now allowing seats of kings 30-40 thousand people strong to be separated in significance from regional towns, which in turn are clearly concentrated enough to not be counted as a rural area.
This isn’t a hill I’d die on, but maybe metropolitan areas could be on the table? For representing dense but decentralized urbanization? Whether that actually makes a difference depends on how important cities being or not being classed as major towns and cities will be in gameplay.
Almost all trade in Norway went through Bergen by royal decree and it was the only town you could call a trading hub in Norway. Trade from the western Islands of Shetland, Orkney, Faroese, Iceland and Greenland went through Bergen. The important stockfish trade from Northern Norway was sold and traded in Bergen, and was around 80% of Norways exports.
Shouldn’t that be represented by a market center? I mean, I’d prefer to have market regions that can have multiple locations act as centers, but with the current system it sounds like it should be a market center separate from Lübeck.
 
Ah, supply and demand. A classic. …Wait. Please tell me we can to stockpile to keep resources out of circulation. Especially for resources that double as currency. Can you imagine the damage just one shopping spree could have? I sure hope that never happens.
Market centers can stockpile resources for future use, but excess resources reduce the equilibrium point, which then gradually drives price changes over time rather than instantly.

For trade, it seems to work as a continuous flow rather than isolated deliveries. Instead of single shipments, multiple ships operate in a shuttle system, ensuring consistent monthly deliveries.
 
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Ah, supply and demand. A classic. …Wait. Please tell me we can to stockpile to keep resources out of circulation. Especially for resources that double as currency. Can you imagine the damage just one shopping spree could have? I sure hope that never happens.
There is a stockpile system but I don't know if the details have been revealed. Seems to be mostly for holding temporary surpluses though.

My understanding is that gold/silver as goods only get converted into currency when the player decides to print more money so I'm not worried about sudden surges of inflation.
 
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Shouldn’t that be represented by a market center? I mean, I’d prefer to have market regions that can have multiple locations act as centers, but with the current system it sounds like it should be a market center separate from Lübeck.
Almost all trade in Norway went through Bergen, but that trade was in 1337 dominated by Hanseatic traders especially from Lübeck. The Hanseatic merchants facilitated most of the trade and really hampered Norway and Bergen growing their own burgher class.

The black death basicly killed all of Norways merchant class. We can see this as every «trading house» for a lack of a better word in Bryggen in Bergen was owned by german merchants after the plague.

The Norwegian trade went through Bergen but got traded by Hanseatic merchants making the connection to the Lübeck market seem fine imo.

Something i find strange is that in the building based country mapmode the Hansa is not in Bergen, even though it was one of 4 Hanseatic Kontors. The 4 being: London, Novgorod, Bruges (later moved to Antwerpen) and Bergen.
 
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Market centers can stockpile resources for future use, but excess resources reduce the equilibrium point, which then gradually drives price changes over time rather than instantly.

For trade, it seems to work as a continuous flow rather than isolated deliveries. Instead of single shipments, multiple ships operate in a shuttle system, ensuring consistent monthly deliveries.
I was hoping for something that could represent the policy of only allowing gold dust to be traded while keeping gold nuggets as an exclusive right of the crown in the western Sudan. That served to keep the value of gold dust stable when the abundance of gold might have otherwise caused a sharp devaluation, as occurred in Mamluk Egypt with the lavish spending of one ruler’s pilgrimage.

Edit: Come to think of it, coinage is going to be the only currency, isn’t it? I hope that’s not hardcoded.
 
I was hoping for something that could represent the policy of only allowing gold dust to be traded while keeping gold nuggets as an exclusive right of the crown in the western Sudan. That served to keep the value of gold dust stable when the abundance of gold might have otherwise caused a sharp devaluation, as occurred in Mamluk Egypt with the lavish spending of one ruler’s pilgrimage.

Edit: Come to think of it, coinage is going to be the only currency, isn’t it? I hope that’s not hardcoded.
I suspect we will have to settle for simplifications. We will likely have control over the amount of minted coins, but devaluation or inflation itself has not been discussed, I believe.
 
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