Tinto Talks #44 - 1st of January 2025

[Johan]

Would it not just be more simple and easy to understand if this "transport cost" was removed, and instead you just have to import more of something. For example, if elephants has a transport cost of 5, then why not just make you have to import 5x as much and make everything the same transport cost?

Thats just semantics, as it would be the same.

 

[Johan]

So you're saying you made a game based on a period of history in which competition over spices was at the highest it's ever been, where sourcing said spices doesn't actually matter?

Gotta say I am really not liking this decision.

They all functioned exactly the same, so it was just different flavor, and had no major impact on gameplay.

 

[Johan]

Wine and beer can be in a single good called fermented drink/alcohol?

I guess licuor references to distilled alcohol.

Well... we could also merge livestock, wild game and leather...

 

[Johan]

I'm afraid that if the devs introduce honey + candles, they will need to add candles as a need for all clergy pops, all christian buildings in Europe in thousands of locations.
The demand will be huge, so they will need to change quite a lot of locations to honey instead of other things. That means complete rebalance of the economy.

That may be the reason.
I wish they had honey too. I hope it could be added in future updates.

Adding new resources needs a lot of rebalancing and tweaks.

 

[Johan]

Is there going to be a dynamic way in which to show that certain locations were responsible for a dispraportionately massive percentage of the output of certain resources during the period? Perhaps through the use of location modifiers?

Yes. Some locations have unique modifiers for their output.

 

[Johan]

I can't even imagine how do you balance all of that.

And didn't you have to make some serious price/output changes in the last few months as a result of all the locations added and raw goods changed during the works of Tinto Maps?

so many times with "economical collapses" due to input shortages due to X or Y.

 

[Johan]

How does the displacement of old world crops with new world crops play out in the game? Looking at the stats the new world crops don't really seem any more effective than other foods.

columbian exchange and other things.

 

[Johan]

On that note: Do say 10 longbow men take the same space on a transport ship as 10 war elephants?

no. different units have different transport costs.

 

[Johan]

I love the icons, the art is really cool! Will there be a Faceting event in PC like in EU4?

View attachment 1238196

No.

Its not an event, but an Age of Discovery advance that increases jewelry output by 10%.

 

[Johan]

horses should also give a food value. Lots of cultures use them as labor saving tools and after their usefulness for that has ended they are eaten. Horse is a popular food iceland and central asia.

in theory could be done, but yeah..

 

[Johan]

Why is wine considered a raw material, while beer is a produced good?

because you can make beer anywhere, while wine requires very locally produced materials.

 

[Johan]

I knew about this already but it's kinda sad that there is not a bronze resource

no need really.. just copper+tin where we would use bronze.

 

[Johan]

These icons look absolutely gorgeous.

thanks, our artists have been working hard.

 

[Johan]

Why was honey high up the list to cut? IMO it'd make more sense to cut something like Amber or Pearls, which could be practically folded into gems, then something as uniquely useful as bee products.

honey was not on any initial lists to add.

 

[Johan]

There is a difference between "having a limit" and "fundamentally failing to depict trade, colonialism and goods production because of lack of goods like different spices". No one expects you to add 100+ goods. Just add some. Especially different spices (like Nutmeg, Pepper, Cloves and Saffron) in addition to what many expect to see like Honey/Beeswax and Candles you could make from it. That is what.. 5-6 new goods? Is that really something the game and game dev can't handle.

We had like 6+ spices. They got merged as the gameplay impact was 0 from them being different. Prices for them were similarly low in the spice islands, and in most other places they were similar level high.

 

[Johan]

Do all gold and silver RGOs need mercury or are they somehow graded for ore quality?



Is armor included in weaponry or by having an armored unit need some other resource(s) as well? So if a unit of light cavalry needs 100 horses and 100 weaponry, does a unit of knights need 100 horses and 1000 weaponry, or 100 horses, 100 weaponry, and iron or something else?

1) There are buildings you can build in locations with gold/silver mines, that requires mercury that improves silver/gold output dramatically.
2) heavy cavalry needs more horses and other materials, and also require tools.

 

[Johan]

I'm surprised there's no form of regular pottery, and only lacquerware/porcelain.
Pottery industries were major business throughout the entire time period, after all!

its abstracted by clay demands.

 

[Johan]

Something that I was wondering about was the implementation of "goods quality".

This is almost definitely impossible to implement for the base game, as it would be a ton of work, but maybe it could be a DLC idea.

The obvious case for this is firearms/cannons; as you advance through the ages and have better production methods, those should increase the goods quality of the firearms/cannons you produce, making them more competitive on the market, and making any troops that use those weapons better.

This could apply to all goods, though, and could lead to specialization among different countries, and would make technological progress more impactful (could also fix the issue with Asian vs European spices, as Asian spices might be considered higher quality than European ones, same with silk and porcelain).

Quality doesn't have to revolve around advances only, because of Project Caesar's new cultural mechanics. Maybe certain cultural products (glass, fine cloth, lacquerware, porcelain) can increase in quality depending on the cultural strength of the country in which it is being created.

Just throwing out some ideas, I think this would be a really cool system that would add so much immersion and depth and synergize well with a lot of systems you guys already have developed.

Would need "unique goods" sadly

 

[Johan]

Vicky 2 and CK3 are examples of what happens when PDX decides to cater to an entirely different audience than their core player base.

Vicky 2? I can't recall what mistake we did there, its 15 years ago now.

 

[Johan]

What decides the transport cost? You'd think stone and marble would have very similar transport costs but stone is 5 times as expensive

I decided

nah, i went with you tend to use far more stone than marble etc.