Tinto Talks #49 - 5th February 2025

[Aquila SPQR]

Poland's backwater nature at the time meaning they had poor record-keeping.

Is there any proof of this suppoused "backwater nature and poor record keeping" or is it just some ignorant nonsense?

A long article about Polish medieval chronicles (google translated):

Spoiler

Polish medieval chronicling in brief:

Chronicle of Anonymus called Gallus
Chronicle of Wincenty Kadłubek
Chronicle of Mierzwa
Polish Chronicle
Chronicle of Greater Poland
Chronicle of Janek of Czarnków
Cracow Cathedral Chronicle
Chronicle of Polish Princes
Chronicle of Oliwa
Annals, or chronicles of the famous Kingdom of Poland by Jan Długosz
Polish medieval chronicling can be defined as the period between the creation of Gallus' chronicle (i.e. the 12th century - its creation is dated to the years 1113-1116) and the year around 1460 (but not later than 1466), when the first version of Długosz's work was written. Ultimately, Długosz's death in 1480 closes the period of Polish medieval chronicling.

On the other hand, I considered Gallus' work to be the first Polish chronicle work. Previously, only annals were written, and the Thietman Chronicle, which best informs us about the reigns of Mieszko I and Bolesław the Brave, is the work of an author who was a bishop in the Roman-German Empire. Territorially, this text focuses on the lands under the rule of the Piast princes and kings, the lands of Anjou and Jagiellonian Poland.

In the text, you will find a discussion of the chronicles of Polish historiographers - Gallus Anonymus, Wincenty Kadłubek, Mierzwa, Janek z Czarnków, Jan Długosz, as well as chronicles of authors who are not clearly specified - the Polish Chronicle, the Greater Poland Chronicle, the Krakow Cathedral Chronicle, the Oliwa Chronicle, the Chronicle of Polish Princes.

The Chronicle of Anonymus called Gallus
The original name is: Cronicae et gesta ducum sive principum Polonorum. This chronicle was written by an unknown Benedictine monk at the court of Bolesław III Krzywousty. The term "Gall" was given to the Benedictine Anonymous by Marcin Kromer in the 16th century – he speculated about the French origin of the chronicler.

This is also commonly believed.

The work was written in the years 1113-1116 (completed at the latest in 1117), which is associated with the cultural center of Kraków, where the main seat of Duke Bolesław Krzywousty was located. The work is divided into three parts. The first is devoted to the history from Piast to the rule of Władysław Herman. Gallus Anonymous devoted the most space here to Bolesław the Brave. This part also serves as an introduction to the proper part of the chronicle describing the history of Bolesław Krzywousty. This introduction presents a kind of genealogy of the prince.

The second part concerns the reign of Władysław Herman until 1109. The third – from 1109 to 1113. The subject is the history of Poland, issues concerning other countries are discussed superficially, occasionally.

Gallus Anonymus' Chronicle is a court historiography, and therefore of a knightly nature. Gallus' history is wars, and after them hunting (according to the chronicler, these are activities worthy of a ruler), descriptions of feasts, knight initiations, costumes, meetings of monarchs, scenes from court and camp life.

Gallus set himself the goal of presenting the Piast monarchs as great rulers whose achievements he wanted to glorify. The work is definitely secular in nature, which its creator emphasizes, contrasting it with church literature. Similar types of chronicles can be observed in the territories of Western and Southern Europe, which additionally confirms the belief in Anonymus's Romanesque origins.

Like every medieval chronicler, Gallus Anonymus demonstrated deep religiosity and saw God's intervention in every historical event. He paid great attention to the spread of the Christian faith and had the good of the Church in mind. When it comes to politics, he recognized the primacy of the emperor among Christian rulers. However, he recognized his limited power - he emphasized in his chronicle the essence of Poland's independence. His attitude towards neighboring peoples reflected the mood prevailing in the principality of Bolesław III. He saw robbers and cowards in the Czechs, and he saw simpletons in the Ruthenians. His attitude towards pagans was the same as in the whole of Europe during the Crusades - so he praised the invasions of Pomerania by Polish rulers.

The Chronicle of Wincenty Kadłubek
The work consists of four books. It covers the history of Poland from the times of the legends to the year 1202. The Chronicle is written in the form of a dialogue between Mateusz, the Bishop of Kraków, and Jan, the Archbishop of Gniezno. The first book covers the period from the times of the legends to the Piast times.

In this part, Master Wincenty introduced two cycles of tales: Greater Poland and Lesser Poland. The second book covers the period from the beginning of the Piast times to the year 1110. Here, Kadłubek relied largely on the Chronicle of Gallus Anonymus. However, he changed many facts, which can be seen in the account of the case of St. Stanislaus. The third book is brought to 1173 and is based on oral tradition. The fourth book covers the period to 1202.

The last book is written without dialogue, but in continuous form. It is not certain when exactly the Chronicle of Master Wincenty was created. The first three books were written at the end of the 12th century, and the fourth – according to Bielowski's assumptions – in the years 1205-1207. Wincenty was appointed to create it by Prince Casimir the Just. Wincenty Kadłubek's reading is evident in this work, especially in the works of the Church Fathers (St. Augustine, St. Athanasius, St. Ambrose, St. Jerome, St. Chrysostom), the Holy Scriptures, as well as in the works of Roman prose writers (Varro, Quintilian, Boeotian, Cicero, Seneca), historians (Salustius, Florus, Valerius, Justin), poets (Ovid, Perseus, Lucan, Statius, Juvenel) and lawyers (works such as: Justinian's Institutions, Digest, Codex, Decretum Gratiana). Master Wincenty, unlike Gallus, did not focus on reconstructing history as it was. Following the example of Roman artists, he focused more on creating certain images, embellishing, moralizing, improving. He created many facts in such a way that they took the form of a moral lesson for the reader or ruler (as, for example, in the description of the case of St. Stanislaus).

Kadłubek also included (in the first part) cycles of tales in his history: Lesser Poland and Greater Poland. Lesser Poland – clearly taken from the Kraków tradition. Greater Poland – clearly taken from Gallus. However, Kadłubek included stories about the Leszkis in the Greater Poland cycle (not present in Gallus) – which are written clearly in the form of moral lessons for rulers.

Wincenty Kadłubek, like Gallus Anonymus, was distinguished by his piety. However, Kadłubek adhered to the opinions of clergymen, highly valued purity of morals and the virtue of humility. He condemned treason, but justified deceit if it led to pious, great goals. He was a supporter of the emerging Kraków monarchy, royal power – which was governed by church law, a hereditary monarchy, gracious and friendly to the Church. Kadłubek's work clearly shows aversion to Germans and Czechs.

The Mierzwa Chronicle
The Mierzwa Chronicle was written by a Kraków Franciscan (which is why it is also called the Franciscan Chronicle), who began working on it after 1288 and completed it at the beginning of the 14th century. This chronicle resembles the Chronicle of Master Wincenty, as it also has the form of a dialogue, and is also a summary or simplification of Kadłubek's work. The Franciscan omitted many facts and descriptions from Kadłubek. He describes some facts in more detail than Kadłubek. It differs, however, in that the author began it from the beginning of the world, and at the beginning a genealogy of peoples was included.

The Polish Chronicle
The Polish Chronicle is a Silesian analogy of the Kraków Chronicle of Mierzwa. The author of this work significantly shortens Kadłubek, basing himself solely on his text. The only original element for the author of this chronicle is the history of Piotr Włast, based on Silesian tradition.

This chronicle is brought to the year 1195 based on Kadłubek, after which there is a mention of the assassination of Leszek the White (1228). Then the history of Silesia is presented until the mid-13th century. Until the year 1288 there is a mention of Bolesław the Chaste and Leszek the Black. The next section covers the period from 1139 to 1278 (in places also to 1300), with a significant expansion of the history of the Silesian princes. The main part of this chronicle was written at the end of the 13th century, and section 1139-1278 even in the 14th century.

The Greater Poland Chronicle
The original title of this chronicle is unknown, and there is no certainty about its author, who most likely did not finish it. It begins with the justification for its creation – the reason was supposedly the insufficient elaboration of the history of Polish kings and princes – especially Greater Poland, and in particular Przemysł.

Then, while describing the legend of Lech, Czech and Rus, an explanation of the origin of the Slavic nations is given. This chronicle was the first to include the story of Lech and Gniezno. The author of the chronicle also considers the Hungarians to be Slavs, and the Germans to be close Slavic nations. Based on Mierzwa, he gives the history of Krak, Wanda, Leszków, Popielów, Piast and his successors.

Dates are given from 913. When describing history, the author of the Greater Poland Chronicle, as is clearly visible, relied on annalistic and chronicle sources. It is brought up to 1272, presenting mainly the history of Greater Poland. The author not only relied on Mierzwa, but also on Rocznik małopolski, Żywot Piotra Własta, and the influence of the Chronicle of Master Wincenty, known as Kadłubek, is also visible.

He undoubtedly knew the Chronicle of Dalimil from foreign sources. The author summarized or copied the sources in detail. He also used the Kraków Chronicle (1202-1377), which was most likely to serve as a basis for describing the history of Casimir the Great (if we assume that the author was Janko z Czarnków).

The Chronicle of Greater Poland was written at the end of the 13th century or in the 14th century. There are assumptions that its author could even have been Janko z Czarnków. As Jan Dąbrowski stated, the author of the Chronicle of Greater Poland had to be a man from Greater Poland, interested in its past and familiar with its problems, because he paid attention to King Przemysł and knew the Greater Poland territories well.

Supporters of the thesis on Janko z Czarnków's authorship cite the Noteć origins of this chronicler as an argument. Brygida Kurbisówna, on the other hand, believes that the author was Baszko, the custodian of the Poznań cathedral. Janko's authorship is supported by the information in the chronicle about Bulgaria, Serbia, Dalmatia and Rascia, which corresponded to the sphere of political interests of Louis of Anjou.

Janko could have become familiar with them through contacts with the Hungarian court, which occurred during the reign of Casimir the Great and later Louis the Hungarian. If we assume that the Chronicle of Greater Poland was written by Janko z Czarnków, it must have been written after the death of Casimir the Great.

Whoever the author of the Chronicle of Greater Poland was, he did not intend to write the history of Greater Poland alone, but wanted to include the history of the whole of Poland. It was the first chronicle to introduce a chronological outline of dates. An original element for the author of this chronicle is also the presentation of the story of Piotr Włast – the well-known Polish Chronicle, as well as the story of Walgierz Wdaly (it was based on a Latin poem from the 12th century).

Chronicle of Janko of Czarnków
As the name suggests – it was written by Janko of Czarnków. The chronicle describes events from the years 1333-1384. It presents the reign of Casimir the Great in a concise form. Casimir's illness, death and funeral are described in great detail here. Later, Janko devoted the lion's share of the chronicle to the rule of Louis of Anjou in Poland, along with the interregnum that prevailed after the death of that monarch.

The chronicle is a kind of political diary of Janko. There is an assumption that Janko (who belonged to one of the court cliques under Casimir the Great, opting for the succession of Kaźko Słupski, which, when Louis took the crown, went into opposition) wanted to use this chronicle to discredit his political opponents in the eyes of posterity. He was a staunch opponent of the Anjou succession in Poland and wanted to glorify the rule of Casimir the Great. This can be seen in his work, in which he is very biased.

The chronicler often distorted facts, and simply passed over some of them in silence. The chronicle is of great value for the history of Polish culture, it contains descriptions of the life of the court, clergy and knights, as well as everyday life, customs and the Polish military (building and conquering castles) in the 14th century. This chronicle is also characterized by an abundance of details and direct storytelling. It is an extremely important source for the history of Poland in the 14th century.

Krakow Cathedral Chronicle
This chronicle covers the years 1202-1377. This chronicle was copied in fragments by Janko z Czarnków (specifically the first and second chapter). It contains a lot of information about the Krakow bishopric, the fortifications of the city of Krakow, and describes in detail the construction of the Wawel Castle and the cathedral itself. The author of this chronicle most likely belonged to the cathedral clergy.

When writing the chronicle, he based it on the Krakow Calendar and the Lesser Poland Yearbook. He provided much information in detail, and wrote some as an eyewitness - specifically regarding the times of Louis the Hungarian and part of the reign of Casimir the Great. The author most likely knew King Casimir III personally, hence the probably such a detailed characterization of the monarch.

Chronicle of Polish Princes
The Chronicle of Polish Princes is based on the Chronicle of Gallus Anonymus and the Polish Chronicle. In terms of content, it covers the period from Kraków, through Leszków to Popielów, then discusses the history of early Piast Poland, and then the history of Poland during the feudal fragmentation.

From the second half of the 13th century, it mainly deals with the history of Silesia, with a secondary consideration of other Piast princes. This chronicle devotes one chapter to the princes of Kuyavia and Mazovia – so it also provides the history of Władysław the Elbow-high and Casimir the Great. It also mentions Louis and Jadwiga of the Anjou. This chronicle was most likely written in 1385.

Oliwa Chronicle
The Oliwa Chronicle is considered the most outstanding work of the Cistercians in Oliwa. It was written in the 14th century. Its content concerns the history of the Oliwa monastery itself, the history of Pomerania, Polish princes (neighboring with the Pomeranian princes) and the Teutonic Order. It discusses such issues as the transfer of Pomerania to Przemysł, the deaths of Wenceslas II and Wenceslas III, the capture of Gdańsk by the Teutonic Knights, Łokietek's war with the Teutonic Order, and the war of the Teutonic Order with the Lithuanians.

There are also traces of information from the history of Germany. The author did not express his political sympathies clearly. Instead, he clearly stood in the interests of the monastery, praising its benefactors, who were among the Pomeranian, Polish and Czech kings, as well as the Grand Masters of the Order of the Blessed Virgin Mary.

Annals, or Chronicles of the Famous Kingdom of Poland by Jan Długosz
The work of Jan Długosz deserves special attention among Polish historiography. It is a work on a European scale, which is the first to be distinguished by a clearly defined heuristic workshop and research methodology. The Annals of Długosz cover the substantive period (in twelve books) from the fabulous history (Lech and his descendants, Krak and his descendants, Leszkowie, Popielids, the first legendary Piasts), through the Piast and Anjou eras to the Jagiellonian times.

His work ends with the reign of Casimir IV Jagiellon. Długosz was interested not only in the history of Poland, but also (in short) the history of neighbouring nations (Czech Republic, Hungary, Ruthenia, the Empire, the Teutonic Order, the Prussians), as well as the history of the papacy.

The author began work on the Annals in 1455, and the work was most likely completed around 1460, or at the latest in 1466. Długosz was undoubtedly influenced by humanistic trends. He had contacts with other historians similar to him, such as Piccolomini.

His numerous diplomatic journeys to Bohemia, Hungary, Prussia, Rome, etc. contributed greatly to his historiographical activity, where he met with intellectuals and gained knowledge from local archival collections, yearbooks and chronicles.

In his research on the history of Poland, he used both domestic and foreign sources available to him, collected earlier for political purposes. He collected annals and calendars from Wielkopolska, the Wielkopolska Chronicle, the Chronicle of Janek from Czarnków, had access to documents from the chancellery of Zbiegniew Oleśnicki, as well as to the materials of Paweł Włodkowic from the period of the Council of Constance. He also had the opportunity to use annals from Kraków and the work of Wincenty Kadłubek. He also used the lives of saints, procedural documents, notes and accounts of Bishop Oleśnicki.

As for foreign sources, he used the Chronicle of Cosmas, the Chronicle of Pułkawa, Historia Bohemica by Piccolomini, the writings of Jan Hus and oral accounts of Czech Catholic supporters, Czech and Ruthenian chronicles, the work of Zygmunt Różyc, he had access to the Chronicle of Peter from Dusburg, the Proto-source of the Hungarian Chronicles, the Life of St. Stephen. He was also extremely critical of Czech sources.

Długosz was characteristic of approaching source material with great criticism. Długosz was also the first historian to try to present history in a cause-and-effect manner, in a relatively objective way, but his account is not free from prejudices (especially national and religious ones – he did not like Germans, Czechs, Lithuanians; he considered Ruthenians brothers, but lower because of their Orthodox confession), as well as sympathy (he was delighted with the descent of Louis of Anjou and his dynasty from Hugh Capet).

He had a particular dislike for the Jagiellon dynasty, because he considered Lithuanians to be barbarians. All of the above was reflected in the account in Annales seu Cronicae, and in particular in the images of individual rulers on the Polish throne.

Polish medieval chronicling. Conclusion
Polish medieval chronicling, like chronicling in other areas, was characterized by providentialism and moralizing - this was a phenomenon characteristic of medieval historiography and was nothing exceptional in Polish lands - similar writing was done in England, France, Saxony, etc. Practically every chronicle had a source basis. They were based not only on written sources, but also on oral accounts and traditions.

Polskie kronikarstwo średniowieczne » Historykon.pl

Polskie kronikarstwo średniowieczne, podob. jak kronikarstwo in. terenów, charakteryzowało się prowidencjalizmem i moralizatorstwem. Czytaj!

historykon.pl

And these are only the most well known chronicles, even after all those wars, looting and occupations across centuries there is still a ton of old documents in Polish archives, here are few dating from the reign of Casimir III (EUV start date):

Not to mention that every administrative region in Poland kept records in two types of "Books". There were "Księgi Ziemskie" ("Land Books") and "Księgi Grodzkie" ("Town Books") where the most important events related to rural and urban locations were recorded. Here's an example of such book, written in the XIV century:

If you're interested here's link to the entire book of this one relatively small particular region (Sieradz - it's in EUIV if I recall correctly and will be in EUV) spanning the years 1386-1840 with 18831 scans of pages:

Zespół - Szukaj w Archiwach

www.szukajwarchiwach.gov.pl

I don't see any reason to believe that Polish record keeping was significantly worse than anywhere else back then.

And another reason to believe this suppoused "backwater nature and poor record keeping" when it comes to Black Death toll in Poland is some western ignorance is this study I posted a bit earlier:

Tinto Talks #49 - 5th February 2025

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, the Happy Wednesday where we discuss details from our secret upcoming top secret game with the codename of Project Caesar. This week we will talk about our disease system. This is the tooltip of an outbreak...

forum.paradoxplaza.com

which clearly says that Poland and some other places (like Ireland, central Spain, Baltic States) were not as affected by the Black Death as France or Italy, as agricultural production has increased in the XIV and XV century there while in places affected by the plague it has decresased significantly.

There are no reports in chronicles about mass deaths in Poland because there was no mass deaths there. That's simply the reason.

 

[Hezekiah]

Great Pestilence:

Terrible news reaches us from abroad. Misery and plague sweep the lands, and death runs with them, apparently brought by mysterious bearded foreigners.

Is there enough germ theory for the New Worlders to make that statement? Does this reflect historical attitudes?

 

[AntarcticRanger]

It knows where the culture is from.

Colonial populations got hit by pandemics harder than their home nations though. I suppose this is another argument to adding colonial cultures

 

[denisevlogiev]

I'm guessing in a playthrough in the Americas let's say an Aztec run if we want to dodge the Great Pestilence we will have to invest heavily in medicinal advances to survive and not get out empire crumble because of no population?

 

[Aquila SPQR]

I'm guessing in a playthrough in the Americas let's say an Aztec run if we want to dodge the Great Pestilence we will have to invest heavily in medicinal advances to survive and not get out empire crumble because of no population?

I'm not sure any American country will have those advances available. It seems the DOOM is inevitable for them.

 

[wowlock]

Time to put that Plague Inc. experience into work.

 

[theolaa]

All depends on what you read though.

So true, depressingly so...

 

[Korsjan Rīkis]

YEAH WE GOT HONEY!!!

But still no cloves.

 

[Sutixela]

Is it possible to make a zombie apocalypse mod or something really crazy like a fantasy mod where people get infected and convert to either Werewolves and vampires?

 

[Sans from Undertale]

It knows where the culture is from.

Love this! Linking immunity (or ressistance) to certain diseases to culture can easily model both the African ressistance to malaria and the American weakness to Smallpox and the Flu!

However, if you tie the ressistance to diseases to culture, I don't understand the need for the "Great Pestilence", since the diseases that ravaged the New World the most were in fact Smallpox, Measles, Influenza, Typhus and Malaria (along with Cocoliztli). And since they were several diferent diseases, it was all the more damaging, since whenever a society started to recover from the first, the second would take its place, and so on. The New World Epidemics were not a single event that took place in the 1500s throughout the entire continent, but rather waves of different pathogens that kept coming back every few years, extending well into the late 19th century in certain regions such as the American Great Plains and the Amazon.

If the Great Pestilence is still maintained in game, however, I don't really understand the need for Measles and Influenza; their death rates are just so small that they wouldn't really impact the game (since their effects on New World POPs has already been modeled by the Great Pestilence). Perhaps that could be a great ocasion to replace those two with a few dises that would, in my oppinion, be much more relevant gameplay-wise.

1. Urban diseases; especially Cholera and Tuberculosis, that kill off urban POPs without the amenities required to prevent them.
2. Army diseases such as Disentry, that could ravage armies during sieges. Also others such as Scurvy, which was very common in invading armies, although that isn't realy an epidemic and may be better modeled as regular attrition.
3. New World diseases brought over to the Old World, such as syphilis. While it is true that the New World was by far the most affected by the exchange of diseases, the Old World was also afected, and I think it would be a great way to show that the Columbian Exchange had both positives and negatives, even for the Europeans.
4. Tropical diseases that affect the Europeans that settle in the Americas. This could be easily showcased by Malaria, but I do think it's important that it should affect the Europeans (or, in general, Old World cultures) even if they're in America rather than Africa. Malaria arrived in the New World in the 15-16th century, and it's the main reason why the most tropical regions of the continent were very lightly settled by Europeans. Other diseases such as Dengue, Chagas disease or Yellow Fever were certainly at play, and the accounts of Spanish explorers are certainly riddled with death by tropical disease.
5. Random Diseases; epidemics that cannot be classified as any of the above, just to introduce a bit of chaos into the game every once in a while. The world certainly lived through several pandemics that could not be categorized as any of the above during the timespan of the game; from bad episodes of Influenza (not regular Influenza but rather something like the Spanish Flu) to Diphtheria, Wooping cough, Scarlet fever or Polio; the life of a Renaissance peasant was certainly plagued by many different... well, plagues.

Also, since we're on the topic of disease, I believe it would be a lot of fun to add non-human diseases; that is, diseases that affect livestock. Of course, it wouldn't make sense for them to be modelled in the same way that human diseases are, but maybe have several events related to this phenomenon in which a fixed percentage of the livestock of an area dies.

As a small aside, are the peoples of Oceania (and in particular Australia) considered New World cultures in terms of disease? It would certainly make sense for them to be, since contact with the Europeans brought great amounts of disease to these regions of the world.

Loved this Tinto Talk though; I hope surviving the Black Death or the New World Epidemics when playing as a nation affected by them is as challenging as I expect! I expect lots of flavor regarding the spreading of disease!

 

[magistairs]

Did you ever try the old mobile-game "pandemic?" where like only Madagascar can survive..

Speaking about this game (where they used the mechanics to model zombies, vampires, apes from the movies, etc... in DLCs) and since you mentioned that the institutions spread the same way, do you have other examples using the spread system ?

I don't have anything precise in mind but for instance if you are in the Warcraft world, can the disease be the Scourge and instead of killing people it changes their culture to "undead" ?

In short can diseases have another effect than dying ?

 

[rapido]

Hi! I have a quick comment on this section:

"This keeps spawning in most locations around the world, but not in arid or arctic climates. It will spread in a small region and is highly contagious. It's far more likely to spread in locations with a lot of trade.It will not appear in the Americas until the Great Pestilence has ravaged the continent fully."

I am not quite sure what constitutes arctic climates (I apologize for my ignorance). The area I will discuss is at least quite cold, and could be considered arctic under some definitions.

I recently went over some tax records (Here is from the Varanger peninsula, 1705) from 1705-1706 from Finnmark in northern Norway, for some research purposes. The text of interest for this comment is at the bottom left the text reads "De som siden forleden aar ere Bortdøde, dog mest udj dend i forleden winter her grahverende smaa koppe sygdom/ english: They who since last year have passed away, although mostly in last winters terrible smallpox illness". A couple of pages later the sami population in the same area is listed, and they have significantly higher death rates. Smallpox kills between 20-60% of the population in certain areas these years, hits certain coastal saami areas the worst. Inland saami areas are not affected (some die but these have strong connection to coastal saami population and fish salamon together in the summer).

Some years later some pietist "missionaries" arrive and some of them conclude that the epidemic was probably caused by evil witchcraft and stupidity. They went there to convert the saami, although the sami themselves was mostly of the conviction that they were in fact christan, which the newly arrived pietists loudly disputed. Hard to know for sure, the scholars I know are not in agreement on this.

The origin of the epidemic is somewhat unclear, but my pet theory is that it originates at a winter marked held annually at the bottom of the Varanger fjord. Here is a (bad) map i made that try to show the epidemic the next couple of years, more red more dead:

So my main point is that I am not sure if the link arctic= no smallpox is accurate to real world data. It might as well be the fact that so few people live there and that state control is so poor in these areas that many smallpox outbreaks are just not detected.

Best regards.

 

[QuinnMallory]

Wait so the Malaria death rate for Colonizers (who have no resistance) will be 10-20%? Seems a bit low, no? After all, this was the major deterring factor in the colonization attempts of Africa for much of the colonial history. I'd put the number somewhere between 30-40% to be honest. This is considering that even with the earliest forms of quinine treatments, the mortality rate for Malaria patients was around 17%.

EDIT: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC10021769/ This paper indicates the mortality rate for white European troops in Sierra Leone was as high as 500 per 1000 men in... the 1800s. Yeah the death rate should be higher.

Useful as a source of information, but could you have used a paper that isn't a bunch of woo-woo leftist nonsense?

 

[Kiyomizunomiya Yukisa]

Hi Johan.
Does game have the cholera？

 

[Great_Triangle]

Will the discovery of Quinine be worked into the game? The political implications of a particular religion getting temporary higher resistance to malaria based on who discovers the medicine in the new world first would be cool.

Historically, Quinine was accepted in Catholic countries before protestant ones, because it was discovered by Jesuit missionaries. Protestant kings resisted calls to increase their tolerance of Catholics in exchange for access to Quinine.

 

[Linbot#6018]

Is cholera represented at all?

Also, I'm not sure if this is a good idea, but it would be realistic and interesting if an army infected with a disease could spread that disease to locations it enters.

 

[Metz]

Yes there is a rice-based production method for wine

Should rice wine be split from grape-based wine for Asian countries? Not sure if wine demands in the west would see eastern rice wine, especially in the game timeframe as the perfect substitute and vice versa, especially in places like France, Italy, China, and Japan.

 

[Mef]

View attachment 1250954Smallpox

This keeps spawning in most locations around the world, but not in arid or arctic climates. It will spread in a small region and is highly contagious. It's far more likely to spread in locations with a lot of trade.It will not appear in the Americas until the Great Pestilence has ravaged the continent fully.


The mortality is between 5% and 30%, so an outbreak where there is low resistance can be deadly.

Smallpox is a terrible disease that produces on the sad victim fever, vomits, and finally an enormous amount of liquid-filled blisters that cover their entire body. The outbreaks of this plague are very deathly and those that survive are commonly left blind for life.

Will there be advances for inoculation and vaccination, so people can acquire resistance to smallpox?

 

[Imperialismo]

No cholera disease?

 

[Sighfer]

No cholera disease?

Cholera is less of a sickness with a resistance, and more of a permanent penalty to population growth depending on level of urbanization. Modern waste management is centuries away, and the first instance of a city having natural population growth (instead of just consuming life, and relying on immigrants from the countryside) isn't until... 1914.