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Tinto Talks #50 - 12th February 2025

Hey everyone, and welcome back. Johan is busy today (allegedly) so instead I will walk you through this Tinto Talks on Formable Countries in our little project called Caesar. It’s a fairly tight feature so this should be nice and quick.



What are Formable Countries?

Basically, formable countries are new tags that you can switch to. Typically they represent historical unions and conquests, but some represent aspirations that never materialised.

Generally speaking, the vision behind Formables is to offer roleplaying and historical immersion, and support player fantasies, rather than modifier stacking. They will change your country name, national flag, and map color. So while you may unlock some content such as advances or other minor unique content, the tag change is often the goal in itself.

Screenshot 2025-02-12 113332.png
Screenshot 2025-02-12 112612.png

Spain gets some unique advances in the later ages, but not all do.

Rather than your country changing automatically every age, you achieve it by completing certain objectives. Usually, you'll need to control a certain percentage of a predefined set of locations, for example Scandinavia needs 75% of the locations in the Scandinavia region.

There’s typically additional requirements as well such as your Primary Culture belonging to a certain Culture Group. Forming Spain also requires you and all the independent countries in Iberia to be Christian, as it is thematically closely tied to the completion of the Reconquista. Iberian Muslims have the reverse rules for forming Al-Andalus.

Some are directly tied to actions in International Organizations, like the Holy Roman Empire or the Ilkhanate.

Formables also have a Tier that represents their natural order of precedence. You can only form countries that are the same or higher tier than you. For example, England (Tier 2) can form Great Britain (Tier 3) but Great Britain can’t form England. The AI will only form countries that are a higher tier.


Screenshot 2025-02-12 124554.png

Country formation is just a click away.


There are 3 settings to the relevant game rule.
  1. Only Historical Formable Countries
    1. Only countries that actually formed in the game’s time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Spain and Great Britain
  2. Allow Plausible Formable Countries(Default)
    1. Countries that could plausible have formed, or formed just after the time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Germany and Italy
  3. Allow Ahistorical Formable Countries
    1. Aspirational or fantasy countries can be formed. Examples include
      1. North Sea Empire (which is a Tier IV) if you control Britain and Scandinavia
      2. Europa (Tier V)



Screenshot 2025-02-12 121247.png

Some countries have different flags depending on the exact manner in which they are formed. For example this variant of the Union Jack with a dominant saltire when you start as Scotland.


1739361227786.png

And some formables come with little treats to sweeten the deal.


Screenshot 2025-02-12 123920.png

The Teutonic Order has a long way to go before they can become Prussia…


Screenshot 2025-02-12 124144.png

But it might be worth it…


Screenshot 2025-02-12 121702.png

Some exist to fulfil common player fantasies, but only appear if the player chooses in the Game Rules to have the less historical ones.



This is our current list of formable countries, let us know which ones you would like us add!

FormableTierNote
Europa5Ahistorical
Rome4Ahistorical
Hindustan4Plausible
Holy Roman Empire4Plausible
Byzantium4
Ilkhanate4
Iran4
Mongolia4
Mughals4
Rûm4
Russia4
United States4
Celtica3Ahistorical
Latin Empire3Ahistorical
North Sea3Ahistorical
Al-Andalus3Plausible
Arabia3Plausible
Canada3Plausible
Egypt3Plausible
Germany3Plausible
Italy3Plausible
Malaya3Plausible
Ruthenia3Plausible
Scandinavia3Plausible
Shan3Plausible
Banten3
Bengal3
Deccan3
Delhi3
Ethiopia3
Great Britain3
Gujurat3
Hausa3
Inca3
Kongo3
Manchu3
Maratha3
Mexico3
Poland-Lithuania3
Punjab3
Rajput3
Siam3
Sokoto3
Spain3
Timurids3
Two Sicilies3
Yamato3
Africa2Ahistorical
Carthage2Ahistorical
Hen Ogledd2Ahistorical
Aotearoa2Plausible
Greece2Plausible
Jerusalem2Plausible
Livonia2Plausible
Maya2Plausible
Albania2
Armenia2
Austria2
Ayutthaya2
Bahamis2
England2
Georgia2
Golden Horde2
Holstein2
Ireland2
Navarre2
Nepal2
Netherlands2
Poland2
Prussia2
Scotland2
Serbia2
Sweden2
Switzerland2
Tibet2
Wales2
Connacht1Plausible
Ulster1Plausible
Aïr1
Bavaria1
Beja1
Mazovia1
Mecklenburg1
Mossi1
Nassau1
Northumbria1
Pomerania1
Sardinia1
Saxony1
Silesia1


That's it for today's dev diary. Thanks for reading, and we'll see you next time, where we will talk about Subject Types, and an interesting part of the Castilian player fantasy…
 
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That is a very, very generous helping of unique formables :eek:

The Latin Empire still exists nominally. The Latin Empress Catherine II (half-sister to King Philippe VI of France) still lives in 1337, but the tag itself lost all of their lands less than 100 years ago. Will there be events to help Catherine reform it somehow, as she has no land to her name? Or will this be ignored and whomever can form it if they meet the reqs?

And is Africa the province of Africa, that being the Maghreb, or the entire continent of Africa? If the former, then it is time to restore the Kingdom of the Vandals & Alans in Africa!

P.S. Can we get a secret Kingdom of the Visigoths if by miracle Theodoro manages to conquer & convert all of Iberia to Gothic, pretty please? I mean it was more recent than both Rome & Carthage :p

Also, also, is Gothic a Germanic language yet? The last time we saw languages in the region it was grouped into the same group as Greek which makes no sense.
 
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Are custom nations planned to be in this game?

I can imagine that custom nations, if added, will be far more interesting in EU5 than EU4 as content can vary based on culture and other aspects, making them richer in flavor.

I can imagine being exited at creating custom nations in EU5, as opposed to trying them once or twice in EU4 and not really touching the mechanic again.
 
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O! say can you see by the dawn's early light,
⁠What so proudly we hailed at the twilight's last gleaming,
Whose broad stripes and bright stars through the perilous fight

Time to form the US as soon as possible
 
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Please, add Hetmanate (Cossack Hetmanate) / Zaporizhia (tier 2) to formable historical tags, as it existed as a separate entity in the XVII – XVIII centuries for more than 100 years.
For some time it was independent, longer as a protectorate/vassal.

Cossacks were a crucial part of the regional history for more than 300 years and played an important role in the Polish, Ottoman, Muscovite and Crimean history.
It should have also a huge potential for unique flavour:
  • Zaporizhian Sich unique bulding
  • unique units (both land and naval)
  • republic stuff
  • hord-ish playstyle
  • provide good mercenaries to Europe
  • naval and land raids to the Steppe
  • liberation of slaves etc.
While Ruthenia could have more monarch-ish narrative and content.

For example, 1640s – 1650s Hetmanate under Bohdan Khmelnytskyi maps (all Ukraine-related cultures should be accepted, including Halychian, Volhynian, Polesian):
IMG_7038.jpeg
Hetmanate 1649.jpg

Historical maps:
Pays des Cosaques ou Ukraine
Vkraina quae et Terra Cossacorum
Pays.png
Vkr.png
The tag name Ukraine would be also viable with an option to rename.

Symbols:
Flag
Coat of Arms
Flag Cossack.png
CoA Cossack.png
 
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Can we have:
1: Aotearoa (for New Zealand)
2: Australia (or some first-nations version of a united Australia, not sure what the best name should be)
3: Hansa (some sort of formable for a centralized Hanseatic League)
Thank you! Very excited for this game :)
 
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Will there be any flavor for formables that didn't historically exist in the timeframe of the game? Thinking mostly about the crusader states, like Latin Empire and Kingdom of Jerusalem.
 
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Rather than your country changing automatically every age
lol
UI note: For formations which change your government type, it seems like the government power listed in the tooltip should be the power type of the target government, not your current one (i.e. "Devotion" here should be "Legitimacy").
They will change your country name, national flag, and map color.
Will formables' cosmetics differ based on which country formed them? E.g. if you form Spain as Aragon rather than Castile, will the map color be based on Aragon's rather than on Castile's / will the flag be different? Or are they fixed and based on the most common circumstance of formation?
 
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Hey everyone, and welcome back. Johan is busy today (allegedly) so instead I will walk you through this Tinto Talks on Formable Countries in our little project called Caesar. It’s a fairly tight feature so this should be nice and quick.



What are Formable Countries?

Basically, formable countries are new tags that you can switch to. Typically they represent historical unions and conquests, but some represent aspirations that never materialised.

Generally speaking, the vision behind Formables is to offer roleplaying and historical immersion, and support player fantasies, rather than modifier stacking. They will change your country name, national flag, and map color. So while you may unlock some content such as advances or other minor unique content, the tag change is often the goal in itself.

View attachment 1253582View attachment 1253583
Spain gets some unique advances in the later ages, but not all do.

Rather than your country changing automatically every age, you achieve it by completing certain objectives. Usually, you'll need to control a certain percentage of a predefined set of locations, for example Scandinavia needs 75% of the locations in the Scandinavia region.

There’s typically additional requirements as well such as your Primary Culture belonging to a certain Culture Group. Forming Spain also requires you and all the independent countries in Iberia to be Christian, as it is thematically closely tied to the completion of the Reconquista. Iberian Muslims have the reverse rules for forming Al-Andalus.

Some are directly tied to actions in International Organizations, like the Holy Roman Empire or the Ilkhanate.

Formables also have a Tier that represents their natural order of precedence. You can only form countries that are the same or higher tier than you. For example, England (Tier 3) can form Great Britain (Tier 4) but Great Britain can’t form England. The AI will only form countries that are a higher tier.


View attachment 1253586
Country formation is just a click away.


There are 3 settings to the relevant game rule.
  1. Only Historical Formable Countries
    1. Only countries that actually formed in the game’s time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Spain and Great Britain
  2. Allow Plausible Formable Countries(Default)
    1. Countries that could plausible have formed, or formed just after the time period will be allowed.
      1. Examples are Germany and Italy
  3. Allow Ahistorical Formable Countries
    1. Aspirational or fantasy countries can be formed. Examples include
      1. North Sea Empire (which is a Tier IV) if you control Britain and Scandinavia
      2. Europa (Tier V)



View attachment 1253589
Some countries have different flags depending on the exact manner in which they are formed. For example this variant of the Union Jack with a dominant saltire when you start as Scotland.


View attachment 1253591
And some formables come with little treats to sweeten the deal.


View attachment 1253592
The Teutonic Order has a long way to go before they can become Prussia…


View attachment 1253593
But it might be worth it…


View attachment 1253594
Some exist to fulfil common player fantasies, but only appear if the player chooses in the Game Rules to have the less historical ones.



This is our current list of formable countries, let us know which ones you would like us add!

FormableTierNote
Europa5Ahistorical
Rome4Ahistorical
Hindustan4Plausible
Holy Roman Empire4Plausible
Byzantium4
Ilkhanate4
Iran4
Mongolia4
Mughals4
Rûm4
Russia4
United States4
Celtica3Ahistorical
Latin Empire3Ahistorical
North Sea3Ahistorical
Al-Andalus3Plausible
Arabia3Plausible
Canada3Plausible
Egypt3Plausible
Germany3Plausible
Italy3Plausible
Malaya3Plausible
Ruthenia3Plausible
Scandinavia3Plausible
Shan3Plausible
Banten3
Bengal3
Deccan3
Delhi3
Ethiopia3
Great Britain3
Gujurat3
Hausa3
Inca3
Kongo3
Manchu3
Maratha3
Mexico3
Poland-Lithuania3
Punjab3
Rajput3
Siam3
Sokoto3
Spain3
Timurids3
Two Sicilies3
Yamato3
Africa2Ahistorical
Carthage2Ahistorical
Hen Ogledd2Ahistorical
Aotearoa2Plausible
Greece2Plausible
Jerusalem2Plausible
Livonia2Plausible
Maya2Plausible
Albania2
Armenia2
Austria2
Ayutthaya2
Bahamis2
England2
Georgia2
Golden Horde2
Holstein2
Ireland2
Navarre2
Nepal2
Netherlands2
Poland2
Prussia2
Scotland2
Serbia2
Sweden2
Switzerland2
Tibet2
Wales2
Connacht1Plausible
Ulster1Plausible
Aïr1
Bavaria1
Beja1
Mazovia1
Mecklenburg1
Mossi1
Nassau1
Northumbria1
Pomerania1
Sardinia1
Saxony1
Silesia1


That's it for today's dev diary. Thanks for reading, and we'll see you next time, where we will talk about Subject Types, and an interesting part of the Castilian player fantasy…
why England is formable but for example France is not?

What if I conquer France as one of its duchies?
 
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I suppose that the "Cross of Burgundy" as the Spanish flag is only possible if the former is somehow linked to Burgundy (conquest, PU...)?
 
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Shouldn't Denmark be reformable? It would make sense as an achievement to get the old "Estridsen" dynasty back by starting as Slesvig and reforming Denmark.
 
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There seems to be a lot of formbales missing, that are in EU4. For example Persia (unless it's Iran?), Japan (same here with Yamato), France, Estonia, Romania, some Indian formables, some New World formables, etc.
 
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