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Tinto Talks #59 - 16th of April 2025

Hello and welcome once again to our super secret Project Caesar Tinto Talks. I will be your host this time, where we will be talking about the mechanics of Catholicism and its associated Catholic Church International Organization.

Here’s an overview of the religion itself:
Catholicism Tooltip.png


One thing to highlight here besides all the other effects, is that Catholic countries are not able to tax their clergy at all by default, although there may be other things modifying this on top of it. However, the clergy won’t necessarily swim in money, as that has to be instead paid to the Papacy directly in the form of a tithe.
Tithe.png


Another key aspect of Catholicism is that all Catholic countries will belong to the Catholic Church IO:
Catholic Church Map.png

Catholic Church IO pannel.png


You can see here that there are quite many countries belonging to it (the total list is expandable and scrollable), with some of them having some special statuses. For Bishopric and Military Order these are self-explanatory, but the Curia and Cardinals need some more information.

The decisions concerning the Catholic Church are taken by the Curia, which is composed of Cardinals. In Project Caesar, Cardinals are represented by a special building, called Cardinal Seat, available to be built by Catholic countries higher than county rank in any location where they already own a large religious building. Each Cardinal Seat will grant its owner country a Cardinal, which the country can use to influence the decisions of the Curia (more on that later). Countries can have more than one Cardinal Seat and thus more than one Cardinal, that’s why in the panel you can see that there’s 7 countries in the Curia but a total of 16 Cardinals among them.
Cardinal Seat.png


Another aspect of the Catholic Church IO is its doctrines, represented by a set of laws. These laws are not something that’s easily changed, as it’s what defines the core values of Catholicism, but some important events will be able to shape them, like for example the Council of Trent (more on that in future Tinto Talks). Here are some of these laws effects:
Papal Authority.png

Purchase of Indulgence.png

Marriage of Priests.png

Persecution of Witchcraft.png


Next to the Doctrines, we have the Papal Bulls. These are actions that any Catholic country can choose to propose, but only those in the Curia can vote on whether to pass them or refuse them. Here are the possible bulls with some examples:
Papal Bulls.png

Illius Qui Se Pro Divini.png

In Coena Domini.png


When voting on a Papal Bull, the interface changes slightly to show how many cardinals support each option. It goes without saying that all the cardinals that a country has will be assigned to vote for the same option, so the amount of cardinals a country has is effectively its amount of votes.
Papal Bulls Vote.png


Besides the Papal Bulls, there’s also the action of Excommunication, available to all countries of the Curia, that if approved, will get the excommunicated country some very nasty modifiers and allow for a special casus belli.

Excommunication Effects.png


The Catholic Church also has some extra aspects in the form of Saints and Holy Sites. Saints are characters of a country that have been elevated to sainthood. A country can choose to canonize any of its previous rulers, and they will get benefits depending on the abilities of such character. Holy Sites are special locations to the Catholic faith, giving some extra income to their owner due to the affluence of faithful in them.
Saints.png

Holy Sites.png


Outside the Catholic Church per se and instead in the main religion panel, there are some extra religious actions available to certain countries, besides the already mentioned option to canonize a character.
Religious Actions.png


  • Demand Apostolic Tax is an action exclusive to the Papacy, in which they will demand extra payment from those countries with the Apostolic Tax privilege enabled.
  • Request Aid is an action exclusive to the military orders, in which they can ask to petition support to the Pope for their infrastructure, military, or coffers.
  • Placitum Regium is an action available to kingdoms or empires that gives them some extra crown power at the expense of relations with the Papacy.

One last thing to mention here is that, as you can see, Catholicism also has Reform Desire. However, in contrast to some other of our titles that also present this value, here it is not a ticking clock for the Reformation, but instead something that will come into play in the Council of Trent. As such, you will have to wait a bit for a further explanation on it.

And that is all for today, next week we will resolve these cliffhangers by taking a further look at what Catholicism has in store after the start of the game, including the situations of the Western Schism, Reformation, and the Council of Trent. On the other hand, in this week’s Tinto Flavor we will go directly to the head of Catholicism by taking a look at the flavor content for the Papal States. Also, remember that this week’s Tinto Flavour will be on Thursday, as this week is Good Friday and the Papal States would be too busy to attend their own Tinto Flavor then (oh, and it’s also a holiday).

See you next time!
 
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Will there be catholic patriarchs?

The patriarchs are a huge part of the political process of the crusades, considering that the patriarch of Jerusalem and Alexandria spent most of their time in exile with it becoming an almost landless title, who controlled this title was a massive part of catholic prestige. Controlling Patriarchs was a pretty big deal more than modern history seems to like to remember.

The Italian wars and politics are also massively affected by the prominance of the interaction between the Patriarch of Aquileia and Grado. The region is also hugely affected to what their relationships are with the Pope as well as certain cardinals are favourable towards for and what happened between the HRE and Papal states as well as the Avignon Pope.

The Patriarch of Lisbon is also a papal power move that's important to the iberian peninsular.
 
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I don’t get the anger at there being only one Catholic emperor, Rome: the Latin Empire was and should be a special case. Austria got to have an Emperor by being HRE, Spain was ruled by a guy whose highest title was Rey (except when he was also Kaiser) even when called officially an Imperium.

« Don Philip the Fourth, by the grace of God king of Castile, Leon, Aragon, the Two Sicilies, Jerusalem, Navarre, Granada, Toledo, Valencia, Galicia, Majorca, Minorca, Seville, Sardinia, Cordoba, Corsica, Murcia, Jaen, Algeciras, Gibraltar, the Canary Islands, the Eastern and Western Indies, the islands and terra firma of the Ocean, archduke of Austria, duke of Burgundy, Brabant, Milan, count of Habsburg, Flanders, Tyrol, Barcelona, lord of Biscay and Molina, etc." in full and "King of the Spains, Don Philip the Fourth and King of Portugal and the Algarves Don Philip the Third ", for short. »

This guy would use words like Impericum Hispanicum but he was not and did not claim to be an Imperator.

Napoléon being an Emperor involved dissolving the HRE and strong arming the Pope in a very different era.

It was generally established that you could have a lower-case empire without being ruled by an Emperor, who was the Catholic Emperor of Rome. If anything changed I would say let Catholics be small-e empires and get most of the benefits as a King, but it is much better to be Pope-approved The Emperor.
 
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One other thing is with all the voting I feel like the Pope should have the final say. The Pope has excommunicated people before without the cardinals approval so that’s really weird. I think the cardinals can propose it but it’s the Pope who decides whether to do it or not and can Excommunicate by his own volition as the Papal State or through the IO.
 
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Thinking about excomunication, it should be noted that the hre emperor needed to be crowned by the pope, so an excomunicated country shouldn't be able to become emperor of the hre (at least unless the hre stops being a catholic empire).
 
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Thinking about excomunication, it should be noted that the hre emperor needed to be crowned by the pope, so an excomunicated country shouldn't be able to become emperor of the hre (at least unless the hre stops being a catholic empire).
This... slid a bit throughout the game's timeframe. There's only four Holy Roman Emperors coronated in the 500 years of this game's timeframe. The first one (Charles IV) wasn't even coronated by the Pope but rather a cardinal. Then there's two in the 15th century, one in the 16th century, and... that's it.
 
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For the Holy sites they shouldn’t be fixed. I think the Pope himself should be able to create a holy sites. Our Lady of Lourdes, Mexico City with the Virgin de Guadalupe, other apparition areas and miracles should have maybe a few preconditions before they can become a Holy site but it should be possible. Or through events. Like the Virgin de Guadalupe. She is incredibly important and the area around there should be considered a Holy site or a way to make one. It may be a different tier Holy site but I think that would make things better and accurately depict Catholicism as well. Not to mention it could also give a bonus to conversion, etc.
 
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Right, but can you freely build cathedrals then? The structure and organization of dioceses was also a Church matter; you can't just establish a bishopric willy-nilly.
That is a great point, although to be fair the number of diocesis increased by a lot during this time period so I understand a desire to abstract it.
Perhaps you should need relations above a certain threshold with the papal states to build a cathedral (implication is that they agree on you creating a new diocesis and that would encourage catholic countries to keep sucking up to the pope) and only one can exist per province (if one already exists in a location you don't own then bad luck!)
 
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This... slid a bit throughout the game's timeframe. There's only four Holy Roman Emperors coronated in the 500 years of this game's timeframe. The first one (Charles IV) wasn't even coronated by the Pope but rather a cardinal. Then there's two in the 15th century, one in the 16th century, and... that's it.
Well, it could at least be true for the age of renaissance at least.
 
That is a great point, although to be fair the number of diocesis increased by a lot during this time period so I understand a desire to abstract it.
Perhaps you should need relations above a certain threshold with the papal states to build a cathedral (implication is that they agree on you creating a new diocesis and that would encourage catholic countries to keep sucking up to the pope) and only one can exist per province (if one already exists in a location you don't own then bad luck!)
Well... depending. Here's a screenshot of all the dioceses of western Europe in 1350 (because yes I have that on-hand):
1744820756617.png

In some regions, yeah, they're going to roughly correspond to a province. In others, they're as small as a single location.
 
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Screenshot_20250416_182806_Chrome.jpg

Isn't it kinda redundant to say that the official religion of the catholic church is catholicism? The Papal flag in the bottom left should be bigger and move to the top left or right
 
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I also wish that there will be some alternative to becoming an Empire as a Catholic, to properly model the late existence of a couple Catholic empires without making it so that GB or Spain always adopt the title which was an issue before.

I also assume this restriction doesn't apply if an existing empire such as Japan somehow converts to Catholicism?
 
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Okay, how about this suggestion for the cardinal mechanic:

Each historical diocese starts with a "Bishop's Seat" building in its appropriate location. These buildings can only be destroyed if the location owner isn't Catholic.
Each of these buildings is always linked to a character, its bishop - if that character dies, a new one is spawned. In bishoprics and archbishopric countries, the leader is chosen from these bishop characters (typically there's only one to choose anyway).

The college of cardinals has a certain number of cardinals (which can change with different laws being passed, roughly between 20 and 70), which are made up of characters with the bishop tag. Whenever one dies, a new one is elected from all possible bishop characters by random chance, although countries can interact with the IO to pay money to increase the chance for bishops in their country to be elected cardinal.

If you have a cardinal in your country, you benefit - not sure exactly how, maybe the character's seat can provide better bonuses, maybe the character himself confers bonuses to the country he's in. You also get the votes of all your cardinals and your vassals' cardinals on your side, of course.
There's a plethora of potential flavor that can be added here, for example when using these bishop/cardinal characters in government.
This might be the closest thing to a perfect solution in my mind. That said, there are several hundred (thousand?) bishoprics at the game's start, and not all of them stand an equal chance at appointment to becoming cardinal. I imagine tracking all of those individual characters is not an insignificant increase in the number of characters in the game, when only a small percentage will ever need to be so fleshed out.

If we do want to see the bishops as characters, though, one way might be to portray only most influential of the bishops in each country, as most bishops aren't realistically in the running for cardinal at any moment. This might be managed by having each bishopric (Some locations would have multiple, where other countries have only a handful despite being much larger) have a yearly chance to spawn a potential candidate seated in that location - the chance rising to 100% for larger and more important cathedrals. Ideally this would mean France, Spain, England, the Italian states and some of the German states should often have a few candidates available for each appointment, but every Catholic nation with a bishopric would have a chance.

Appointments were often made in batches, rather than on an individual basis whenever a cardinal died, so the game could make this a yearly event to save on having to evaluate all of this monthly. It might even only spawn bishops for less important locations at this point - and only keep minor bishops from player countries saved, while discarding those that didn't make the cut after the appointments - if it really needed to reduce the number being tracked. From this pool, the pope could then elect a number of cardinals to fill the available seats.

Realistically if we're tracking characters, the appointment to cardinal should be based on some combination of the character's piety, political acumen, home country, connections and possibly the backing of a powerful benefactor - with the Pope's preferences on those factors ultimately deciding factor in whether they get appointed to be a cardinal when a seat opens up. One of the Borgia popes would be much more likely to favour a well connected individual than a pious one, for example. For an AI pope, they'd just need to pick the candidates with the highest weighted score.

I don't know if that's a realistic expectation, but I'd love to see something like that. It could even be extended to then manage the appointment of a pope once one dies by having the characters in their college make a collective evaluation of their preferences and those of their countries, if they have a high opinion of their country - but now I might be starting to daydream.
 
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This might be the closest thing to a perfect solution in my mind. That said, there are several hundred (thousand?) bishoprics at the game's start, and not all of them stand an equal chance at appointment to becoming cardinal. I imagine tracking all of those individual characters is not an insignificant increase in the number of characters in the game, when only a small percentage will ever need to be so fleshed out.
There are 752 in 1337, I made a list based on the database that Sulphurologist linked:
GurkAustria
LavantAustria
SalzburgAustria
SeckauAustria
LiègeBelgium
TournaiBelgium
BosniaBosnia
DuvnoBosnia
TrebinjeBosnia
Dubrovnik (Ragusa)Croatia
KninCroatia
Korčula (Curzola)Croatia
Krk (Veglia)Croatia
LesinaCroatia
ModrusCroatia
Nin (Nona)Croatia
Novigrad (Cittanova d'Istria)Croatia
Osor (Ossero)Croatia
Pićan (Pedena)Croatia
Poreč (Parenzo)Croatia
PulaCroatia
Rab (Arbe)Croatia
SenjCroatia
Šibenik (Sebenico)Croatia
Skradin (Scardona)Croatia
Split (Spalato)Croatia
Trogir (Trau)Croatia
Zadar (Zara)Croatia
ZagrebCroatia
FamagustaCyprus
LimassolCyprus
NicosiaCyprus
PaphosCyprus
OlomoucCzech Republic
Praha (Prague)Czech Republic
AarhusDenmark
BorglumDenmark
Faroe IslandsDenmark
OdenseDenmark
RibeDenmark
RoskildeDenmark
ViborgDenmark
Bath & WellsEngland
CanterburyEngland
CarlisleEngland
ChichesterEngland
DurhamEngland
ElyEngland
ExeterEngland
HerefordEngland
Lichfield & CoventryEngland
LincolnEngland
LondonEngland
NorwichEngland
RochesterEngland
SalisburyEngland
WinchesterEngland
WorcesterEngland
YorkEngland
DorpatEstonia
Osel-WiekEstonia
RevalEstonia
AboFinland
AcciaFrance
AgdeFrance
AgenFrance
AireFrance
AixFrance
AjaccioFrance
AlbiFrance
AleriaFrance
AletFrance
AmiensFrance
AngersFrance
AngoulêmeFrance
AptFrance
ArlesFrance
ArrasFrance
AuchFrance
AutunFrance
AuxerreFrance
AvignonFrance
AvranchesFrance
BayeuxFrance
BayonneFrance
BazasFrance
BeauvaisFrance
BelleyFrance
BesançonFrance
BeziersFrance
BordeauxFrance
BourgesFrance
CahorsFrance
CambraiFrance
CarcassonneFrance
CarpentrasFrance
CastresFrance
CavaillonFrance
Chalon-sur-SaôneFrance
Châlons-sur-MarneFrance
ChartresFrance
ClermontFrance
CondomFrance
CouseransFrance
CoutancesFrance
DaxFrance
DieFrance
DigneFrance
DolFrance
ElneFrance
EmbrunFrance
EvreuxFrance
FrejusFrance
GapFrance
GlandèvesFrance
GrasseFrance
GrenobleFrance
LangresFrance
LaonFrance
LavaurFrance
Le MansFrance
Le PuyFrance
LectoureFrance
LescarFrance
LimogesFrance
LisieuxFrance
LodèveFrance
LombezFrance
LuçonFrance
LyonFrance
MâconFrance
MaguelonneFrance
MaillezaisFrance
MarianaFrance
MarseilleFrance
MeauxFrance
MendeFrance
MetzFrance
MirepoixFrance
MontaubanFrance
NantesFrance
NarbonneFrance
NebbioFrance
NeversFrance
NiceFrance
NîmesFrance
NoyonFrance
OloronFrance
OrangeFrance
OrléansFrance
PamiersFrance
ParisFrance
PerigueuxFrance
PoitiersFrance
QuimperFrance
ReimsFrance
RennesFrance
RieuxFrance
RiezFrance
RodezFrance
RouenFrance
SagoneFrance
Saint-Bertrand-de-CommingesFrance
Saint-BrieucFrance
Saint-FlourFrance
Saint-Jean-de-MaurienneFrance
Saint-MaloFrance
Saint-PapoulFrance
Saint-Paul-Trois-ChâteauxFrance
Saint-Pol-de-LéonFrance
Saint-PonsFrance
SaintesFrance
SarlatFrance
SéesFrance
SenezFrance
SenlisFrance
SensFrance
SisteronFrance
SoissonsFrance
StrasbourgFrance
TarbesFrance
TarentaiseFrance
ThérouanneFrance
ToulFrance
ToulonFrance
ToulouseFrance
ToursFrance
TréguierFrance
TroyesFrance
TulleFrance
UzesFrance
VabresFrance
VaisonFrance
ValenceFrance
VannesFrance
VenceFrance
VerdunFrance
VienneFrance
ViviersFrance
AugsburgGermany
BambergGermany
BrandenburgGermany
BremenGermany
ChiemseeGermany
Cologne (Köln)Germany
EichstättGermany
FreisingGermany
HalberstadtGermany
HavelbergGermany
HildesheimGermany
LübeckGermany
MagdeburgGermany
MainzGermany
MeissenGermany
MerseburgGermany
MindenGermany
MünsterGermany
NaumburgGermany
OsnabruckGermany
PaderbornGermany
PassauGermany
RatzeburgGermany
RegensburgGermany
SchleswigGermany
SchwerinGermany
SpeyerGermany
TrierGermany
VerdenGermany
WormsGermany
WürzburgGermany
CandiaGreece
GarðarGreenland
EgerHungary
EsztergomHungary
GyörHungary
KalocsaHungary
MarosvarHungary
PécsHungary
VácHungary
VeszprémHungary
HolarIceland
SkálholtIceland
AchonryIreland
AnnaghdownIreland
ArdaghIreland
ArdfertIreland
ArmaghIreland
CashelIreland
ClogherIreland
ClonfertIreland
ClonmacnoisIreland
CloyneIreland
CorkIreland
DublinIreland
ElphinIreland
EmlyIreland
FernsIreland
KildareIreland
KilfenoraIreland
KillalaIreland
KillaloeIreland
KilmacduaghIreland
KilmoreIreland
LeighlinIreland
LimerickIreland
LismoreIreland
MeathIreland
OssoryIreland
RaphoeIreland
RossIreland
TuamIreland
WaterfordIreland
ConnorIreland (Northern)
DerryIreland (Northern)
DownIreland (Northern)
DromoreIreland (Northern)
(Santa Maria di) AnglonaItaly
Abbazia delle Tre FontaneItaly
AcerenzaItaly
AcernoItaly
AcerraItaly
AcquiItaly
AdriaItaly
AgrigentoItaly
AlatriItaly
AlbaItaly
AlbanoItaly
AlbengaItaly
AlesItaly
AlessandriaItaly
AlifeItaly
AmalfiItaly
AmeliaItaly
AmpuriasItaly
AnagniItaly
AnconaItaly
AndriaItaly
AostaItaly
AquilaItaly
AquileiaItaly
AquinoItaly
ArezzoItaly
ArianoItaly
Ascoli (Piceno)Italy
Ascoli SatrianoItaly
AssisiItaly
AstiItaly
AvellinoItaly
AversaItaly
BagnoregioItaly
BariItaly
Bari (Delle Puglie)Italy
BelcastroItaly
BeneventoItaly
BergamoItaly
BisacciaItaly
BisarcioItaly
BisceglieItaly
BisignanoItaly
BitettoItaly
BitontoItaly
BobbioItaly
BoianoItaly
BolognaItaly
BosaItaly
BovaItaly
BovinoItaly
BresciaItaly
BrindisiItaly
BrixenItaly
BrugnatoItaly
CagliItaly
CagliariItaly
CajazzoItaly
CalviItaly
CamerinoItaly
CanneItaly
CanosaItaly
CaorleItaly
CapaccioItaly
CapriItaly
CapuaItaly
CarinolaItaly
CasertaItaly
Cassano (all'Ionio)Italy
CastellammareItaly
CastellanetaItaly
CastelloItaly
CastroItaly
CataniaItaly
CatanzaroItaly
CefaluItaly
CenedaItaly
Cerenzia (Cerenza)Italy
CerviaItaly
CesenaItaly
ChietiItaly
ChioggiaItaly
ChiusiItaly
Città di CastelloItaly
CittanuovaItaly
Cività CastellanaItaly
CivitateItaly
ComacchioItaly
ComoItaly
ConcordiaItaly
ConversanoItaly
ConzaItaly
CortonaItaly
CosenzaItaly
CremonaItaly
DoliaItaly
DragonaraItaly
FaenzaItaly
FanoItaly
FarfaItaly
FeltreItaly
FerentinoItaly
FermoItaly
FerraraItaly
FiesoleItaly
FiorentinoItaly
Firenze (Florence)Italy
FolignoItaly
FondiItaly
ForliItaly
ForlimpopoliItaly
FossombroneItaly
FrascatiItaly
FrigentoItaly
GaetaItaly
GallipoliItaly
GaltelliItaly
GenovaItaly
GeraceItaly
GiovinazzoItaly
GradoItaly
Gravina (in Puglia)Italy
GrossetoItaly
GuardialfieraItaly
GubbioItaly
Iesolo (Jesolo)Italy
ImolaItaly
IschiaItaly
IserniaItaly
IsolaItaly
IvreaItaly
JesiItaly
LacedoniaItaly
LarinoItaly
LavelloItaly
LecceItaly
LesinaItaly
LettereItaly
LeucaItaly
LipariItaly
LodiItaly
LuccaItaly
LuceraItaly
LuniItaly
MacerataItaly
ManfredoniaItaly
MantovaItaly
Marisco (Nuovo)Italy
MartiranoItaly
Massa CarraraItaly
Massa LubrenseItaly
Massa MarittimaItaly
MateraItaly
MazaraItaly
MelfiItaly
MessinaItaly
MilanoItaly
MiletoItaly
MinervinoItaly
MinoriItaly
ModenaItaly
MolfettaItaly
MonopoliItaly
MonrealeItaly
Monte CassinoItaly
Monte MaranoItaly
MontecorvinoItaly
MontefeltroItaly
MonteverdeItaly
MottolaItaly
Muro (Lucano)Italy
NapoliItaly
NardoItaly
NarniItaly
NazaretItaly
NepiItaly
NicastroItaly
Nocera (Umbra)Italy
Nocera InferioreItaly
NolaItaly
NoliItaly
NovaraItaly
NuscoItaly
OppidoItaly
OristanoItaly
OrteItaly
OrvietoItaly
OsimoItaly
OstiaItaly
OstuniItaly
OtrantoItaly
OttanaItaly
PadovaItaly
PalermoItaly
PalestrinaItaly
ParmaItaly
PattiItaly
PaviaItaly
PenneItaly
PerugiaItaly
PesaroItaly
Pescina (med. Avezzano)Italy
PiacenzaItaly
PisaItaly
PistoiaItaly
PloagheItaly
PolicastroItaly
PolignanoItaly
PortoItaly
PotenzaItaly
PozzuoliItaly
RapollaItaly
RavelloItaly
RavennaItaly
ReggioItaly
Reggio (di Calabria)Italy
Reggio-CalabriaItaly
RietiItaly
RiminiItaly
RomaItaly
RossanoItaly
Ruvo (di Puglia)Italy
S. Angelo de LombardiItaly
SabinaItaly
SalernoItaly
SalpiItaly
San LeoneItaly
San Marco (Argentano)Italy
Sant'Agata dei GotiItaly
Sant'AntiocoItaly
Santa GiustaItaly
Santa SeverinaItaly
SarnoItaly
SarsinaItaly
SassariItaly
SatrianoItaly
SavonaItaly
ScalaItaly
SegniItaly
SenigalliaItaly
SessaItaly
SienaItaly
SiracusaItaly
SoraItaly
SorrentoItaly
SorresItaly
SovanaItaly
SpoletoItaly
SquillaceItaly
StrongoliItaly
SuelliItaly
Sulmona-ValvaItaly
SutriItaly
TarantoItaly
TeanoItaly
TeleseItaly
TempioItaly
TeramoItaly
TermoliItaly
TerniItaly
TerracinaItaly
TerralbaItaly
TertiveriItaly
TivoliItaly
TodiItaly
TorcelloItaly
TorinoItaly
TorresItaly
TortonaItaly
TraniItaly
TrataliasItaly
TrentoItaly
TrevicoItaly
TrevisoItaly
TricaricoItaly
TriesteItaly
TriventoItaly
TroiaItaly
TropeaItaly
TuscaniaItaly
UgentoItaly
UmanaItaly
UmbriaticoItaly
UrbinoItaly
VelletriItaly
VenafroItaly
VenosaItaly
VentimigliaItaly
VercelliItaly
VeroliItaly
VeronaItaly
VicenzaItaly
Vico EquenseItaly
ViesteItaly
ViterboItaly
VolterraItaly
Volturara (Appula)Italy
Courland (Kurland)Latvia
RigaLatvia
MdinaMalta
BarMontenegro
BudvaMontenegro
Kotor (Cattaro)Montenegro
UlcinjMontenegro
UtrechtNetherlands
BergenNorway
HamarNorway
NidarosNorway
OsloNorway
StavangerNorway
ChełmnoPoland
GnieznoPoland
KamminPoland
KrakowPoland
Kujawy (Włocławek)Poland
LebusPoland
PlockPoland
PomesaniaPoland
PoznanPoland
Warmia (Ermland)Poland
WrocławPoland
BragaPortugal
CoimbraPortugal
EvoraPortugal
GuardaPortugal
LamegoPortugal
LisboaPortugal
OportoPortugal
SilvesPortugal
ViseuPortugal
ErdélyRomania
OradeaRomania
SamlandRussia
AberdeenScotland
ArgyllScotland
BrechinScotland
CaithnessScotland
DunblaneScotland
DunkeldScotland
GallowayScotland
GlasglowScotland
IslesScotland
MorayScotland
OrkneyScotland
RossScotland
ScotlandScotland
St. AndrewsScotland
NitraSlovakia
St. Martin (exempt provostship of)Slovakia
Koper (Capodistria)Slovenia
AgerSpain
Albarracín-SegorbeSpain
AstorgaSpain
AvilaSpain
BadajozSpain
BarcelonaSpain
BurgosSpain
CádizSpain
CalahorraSpain
CartagenaSpain
Ciudad RodrigoSpain
CordobaSpain
CoriaSpain
CuencaSpain
GeronaSpain
HuescaSpain
JaénSpain
LeonSpain
LeridaSpain
LugoSpain
MallorcaSpain
MondoñedoSpain
OrenseSpain
OsmaSpain
OviedoSpain
PalenciaSpain
PamplonaSpain
PlasenciaSpain
SalamancaSpain
SantiagoSpain
SegoviaSpain
SevillaSpain
SigüenzaSpain
TarazonaSpain
TarragonaSpain
ToledoSpain
ToledoSpain
TortosaSpain
TuiSpain
UrgelSpain
ValenciaSpain
VicSpain
ZamoraSpain
ZaragozaSpain
LinköpingSweden
LundSweden
SkaraSweden
SträngnäsSweden
UppsalaSweden
VasterasSweden
VaxjoSweden
BaselSwitzerland
ChurSwitzerland
GenevaSwitzerland
KonstanzSwitzerland
LausanneSwitzerland
Sion (Sitten)Switzerland
PrzemyślUkraine
BangorWales
LlandaffWales
St. AsaphWales
St. David'sWales
Obviously these would not be all in the game, and I'm all for cutting down the numbers to make them more manageable, and not include every single small one. I doubt it would be fun if a unified Italy had to deal with 300 bishops as characters in the country.
I agree that there might need to be a system for cutting down the number of characters even more, if the game generally doesn't want to simulate a lot of characters other than the ruling family.
Appointments were often made in batches, rather than on an individual basis whenever a cardinal died, so the game could make this a yearly event to save on having to evaluate all of this monthly.
My suggestion was made on the basis that the cardinal spots would be filled at all times, which would necessitate an immediate replacement for any character that dies.
 
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Okay, how about this suggestion for the cardinal mechanic:

Each historical diocese starts with a "Bishop's Seat" building in its appropriate location. These buildings can only be destroyed if the location owner isn't Catholic.
Each of these buildings is always linked to a character, its bishop - if that character dies, a new one is spawned. In bishoprics and archbishopric countries, the leader is chosen from these bishop characters (typically there's only one to choose anyway).

The college of cardinals has a certain number of cardinals (which can change with different laws being passed, roughly between 20 and 70), which are made up of characters with the bishop tag. Whenever one dies, a new one is elected from all possible bishop characters by random chance, although countries can interact with the IO to pay money to increase the chance for bishops in their country to be elected cardinal.

If you have a cardinal in your country, you benefit - not sure exactly how, maybe the character's seat can provide better bonuses, maybe the character himself confers bonuses to the country he's in. You also get the votes of all your cardinals and your vassals' cardinals on your side, of course.
There's a plethora of potential flavor that can be added here, for example when using these bishop/cardinal characters in government.
Although I'd prefer this over what was in the TT, your proposal suffers from the same problem as the TT's design: it's a boring mechanic, with almost no political/diplomatic interplay.

I'd prefer the Cardinals (and to a lesser extent, sainthood) to be something Countries and even the Papacy "fight" for control, and have these disputes impact the relationship between countries and the papacy itself.
 
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