• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Tinto Talks #68 - 18th of June 2025

Hello, and welcome to another Tinto Talks, the happy Wednesdays where we talk about Europa Universalis V!

Today, we will discuss the mechanics of Buddhism. In EUV, it is considered another Religious Group, like some that we saw previously, such as Christianity or Islam:
Buddhism.png

Buddhism.jpg

We will focus on the three main branches of pure Buddhism: Theravāda, Eastern Buddhism, and Tibetan Buddhism, which share the same core mechanics.
Theravada.png

Eastern Buddhism.png

Tibetan Buddhism.png

One aspect that all of these share is the presence of Karma as a currency. Karma, same as it was in EU4, can be modified by different factors, and gives different effects depending on its value:
Karma.png

Another very important aspect of Buddhist religions is the presence of various Buddhist Sects. Each religion has a variety of different sects, represented as International Organizations, and countries will belong to the sects of their own religion. Eastern Buddhism countries can belong to a maximum of 3 sects, while the rest of the religions allow for a maximum of a single sect.

Each sect has a value of Favor, representing the influence and support that sect has, as well as locations in which that sect is present. The sects also define themselves through a set of laws establishing their philosophy and teachings.
Mahavihara panel.png

Main Philosophy.png

As long as sects have a high value of favor (over 60%), they will be able to expand their influence by adding more of their neighboring locations to the IO. Conversely, if sects have a low value of favor (less than 40%), they will start losing their locations. Sects will also lose locations if the dominant religion of the location is not the appropriate one. Sects can only gain or lose a single location at a time, though, so they will not completely disappear or extremely increase in size overnight, but it will be a gradual process.

Sects gain or lose favor depending not only on how many countries are part of the IO, but also from countries actively promoting or disfavoring them. A country can choose to favor or disfavor a single sect to affect its favor value, although that will also impact the effects that the country gets from the sect(s) it belongs to.
Religion Panel.png

A country can also choose to leave a sect or to join a new one, but with some caveats. For once, a country will not be able to leave a sect it is part of as long as that sect has over 50% favor. So, if they want to leave that to join a new one, they will have to first make that favor decrease. To join a sect, a country must not already be at its maximum number of sects allowed, and the sect to join needs to be present in their territory or in the territory of an ally or a subject.

Let me now give a brief overview of the available sects.

Theravada Sects:
Theravada Sects.png

Eastern Buddhism Sects:
Eastern Buddhism Sects.png

You might notice here Confucianism and Daoism; we’ll talk more in-depth about them in the last block of the post, devoted to Sānjiào.

Tibetan Buddhism Sects:
Tibetan Buddhism Sects.png

Some of these Sects may be better known by other names, but we used more generic terms for them due to the fact that they are present in multiple countries:
Meditation School.png

Meditation School spread.png

Some of these schools have other special sets of teachings on top of the main ones, like the ones including Vajrayāna Tantric practices, giving some extra actions to the countries that belong to them.
Tantric Practices.png

Tantric Actions.png

There are also two other Buddhist religions I want to talk about, which were pending from previous Tinto Talks. For starters, let’s talk once again about Shintō. As mentioned in its own Tinto Talks, Shintō countries have the ability to Favor Buddhist Schools, and mentioned that that action gives them access to interact with the general Buddhist mechanics. That means that when performing this action, they will gain the same abilities related to the sects, with some costs associated with that:
Favor Buddhist Schools.png

Shinto Buddhist.png

They will thus be able to join the sects of Eastern Buddhism, although they can only join one, with some extra specifically Japanese sects:
Japanese Sects.png

As an extra note related to the Japanese sects, Jōdo Shinshū will also be created as an additional one during the course of the game.

Another religion in the Buddhist group I want to mention (and that some of you have already noticed) is the new religion we have implemented in China, which we have named Sānjiào, something we did after careful consideration, from the feedback received in Tinto Maps. This is to represent the particular blend of Buddhism, Confucianism, and Daoism (together with many other folk beliefs) that has formed and coexisted in China for centuries. As such, a country following Sānjiào will automatically belong to the Confucianism and Daoism Sects, and they will get both the Righteousness and Harmony currencies. On top of that, they will be able to join one extra sect of Eastern Buddhism:
Sanjiao.png

Sanjiao Panel.png


Confucianims.png

Daoism.png

As you can see, these enable two special currencies: Righteousness and Harmony respectively:
Righteousness.png

Harmony.png


Sanjiao Map.png

And that’s all for today! Tomorrow, there will be a post about the process behind the Audio and the OST of the game, while on Friday’s Tinto Flavour, we will take a look at Majapahit!

And also remember, you can wishlist Europa Universalis V now! Cheers!
 
  • 122Like
  • 59Love
  • 12
  • 10
  • 5
  • 1Haha
Reactions:
GAMEPLAY CHANGE FOR SANJIAO

More info regarding my suggestions for the Confucian schools and their modifiers, represented through the avatar system.
I made the mistake of listing Qixue as a school, when it is a sub-school of Lixue. I also removed Tasan's thoughts, as he can be fit into Silhak. Added two schools I forgot as well.
  • Lixue
Most "orthodox" school and most widespread. Central figures are Zhu Xi and Cheng Yi.
+ Stability Investment (Represents school's focus on observation and study before action, self-cultivation through observing)
  • Xinxue
Largest challenger originally to Lixue and a big driver in opposition to the state in China and Japan. Original figure was Lu Jiuyuan, but Wang Yangming popularised it firmly in the 1500s.
+ Literacy Rate (Represents school's focus on the union of action and learning, and its belief that education should be broad and its influence on the idea that education and learning does not need to be associated with the government)
  • Yongjia
Popular in the Song period and then slowly underwent decline.
+ Trade Capacity or Trade Efficiency or Trade something else (Represent's schools criticism of metaphysical approaches and focus on practical matters, including advocating for laissez faire economic policies)
  • Taizhou
Started 1500s. Refuses to associate itself with Neo-Confucianism and brings up influences from the Hundred Schools.
+ Food Output (Represent school's focus on the need to fulfil the basic needs of man in order to ensure they remain in social order)
  • Kaozhengxue (China)
Started 1650s, exclusive to China. In theory, not a true school and more of a predecessor to Hanxue, but Hanxue rises too late in the game so best to represent it this way.
+ Cultural Assimilation, + Cultural Defense (Represent school's focus on studying and interpreting the Confucian classics over any deviations)
  • Sŏngnihak (Korea)
Started 1400, exclusive to Korea. Not so much a school but rather a representation of the Korean dogmatic interpretations and expansions of Lixue.
+ Fort Defense, + Enemy Attrition (Represents the inwardness of the school's political policies perhaps)
  • Silhak (Korea)
Started 1600, exclusive to Korea. A very broad group of thoughts and ideas that were critical of Lixue and excessive metaphysical concerns.
+ Production Efficiency, - Landowner Influence (Represent school's belief in reorienting governance and priorities towards Korean economic priortiies, and focus on egalitarianism and interest in land reform)
  • Zhedongxue
Forgot to originally put in the list. Started 1650s, exclusive to China. Has an interest only in studying the past and history, and sees history as the only guide to human behaviour and actions.
+ Prestige Gain
  • Yongkang
Forgot to originally put in the list. Around by the start date. A practical school that did not look down upon profit and called for more pragmatic approaches to rulership and military affairs.
+ Military bonus, + Tax Efficiency
 
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Do you know what the transliteration would be? That could be used like it was for Finnish.
In vietnamese we just called it "tín ngưỡng (belief) dân gian (folk)" or "tín ngưỡng cổ truyền (traditional)". The term Đạo Lương is not only a late invention and based on Catholic worldview, but also not commonly used in Vietnam.

Part of the reason why there isn't a short, neat name for Vietnamese folk is that Vietnamese belief is really all over the place, a hotpot of unrelated concepts thrown together, which each part will be celebrated by the same community in different occasions/situations.
1. Thờ Tổ tiên (lit trans: Ancestor worship): the most common private practice among Vietnamese folk
2. Thờ Thành Hoàng (Local guardian deities worship): : the most common public practice among Vietnamese folk. Those deities could be national or local heroes, people who established the village/introduced a craft, mythical/natural spirit of the place. Think of its like a blend of Shinto's Kami and Ancestor worship
3. Thờ Thánh Mẫu (Mother Goddesses) in specific holy sites/temples. We have a lot of Mother Goddesses, some are natural goddesses (Forest, Land, Water), some are historical people (mostly queens), and some "supreme Mother Goddess" like Bà Chúa Liễu Hạnh
4. Thờ Thần Linh: Local or natural spirits, generally in the form of the smaller altars in the house, along a road, or under large tree.
5. Animalists, like whale worship in some coastal area.

It's really hard to pick one of them to be the poster child for Vietnamese folk as a whole. "Vietnamese folk", while generic, is both encompassing and more faithful to how native Vietnamese call their belief, so it's a ok choice all things considered.
 
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions:
I think each Buddhist sect should have a conversion bonus for any other religion that also has that sect, as pop don't have to change too much of their belief compared to something like Catholic > Buddhism.
For examples, converting from Sanjiao (Confucianism + Taoism + Zen sect) to Vietnamese folk (Confucianism + Đạo Mẫu + Zen) (these components are just example) will have something like +100% conversion rate, with Confucianism and Zen each gives +50%. (My original idea is -30% conversion time - thus a 3/3 match can flip almost immediately, but this is not EU4 so..)
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
We've also taken note of all the suggestions to better portray Neo-Confucianism, and it's something we want to incorporate. Thanks!
Just as Shintō can select from various extra specifically Japanese sects, perhaps Sānjiào could be made more dynamic by avoiding a fixed selection of Confucianism and Daoism as a single sect. Instead, a nation following Sānjiào might be required to choose one Confucianism-type sect and one Daoism-type sect, along with an additional sect — potentially not limited to Buddhism, but also including options representing other religions that could be unlocked under specific conditions, such as Huíjiào. I believe this would make the existing framework more flexible and historically grounded.

Here are some representative sects that might be considered:

Confucianism:
  • School of Principle
  • School of Heart
  • School of Material Force
  • Classical Studies
  • School of Practical Learning
Daoism:
  • Way of Orthodox Unity
  • Way of Complete Perfection
  • Musok
  • Đạo Lương
    (While the latter two are not strictly Daoist, they have historically held roles and functions similar to Daoism in Korea and Vietnam, respectively.)

In my view, this approach would make the Sānjiào system in the game richer and more dynamic, while also offering a more accurate reflection of the religious landscape in Vietnam and the Korean Peninsula after converting to Sānjiào.
 
  • 3Like
Reactions:
I would prefer Sanjiao being its own religion group (Chinese religion?), but asides from that the current setup is more interesting than absurd.
 
I would particularly like the native religions of the Far East to have their own group (I use the term Taoic religions), and in the case of "Eastern Buddhism/mahayana" would have a mechanic that allows the Taoic group to accept and tolerate it even though it is a Buddhist group, similar to the mechanic of the Bön religion tenet in CK3. This would also make it possible for some specific Buddhists religions to interact with the Dharmic group, particularly in "Indonesia/Southeast Asia" with Hinduism.
1751026332440.png

perhaps another simple option would be to rename the group from "Buddhist" to "Eastern" or something similar. (since it includes native religions from the Far East that despite having a history with Buddhism, are not considered Buddhist and not even dharmics)
 
  • 3
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Is that possible to make a loop system for East Asia religion? Like Sanjiao can take turn for the main religion: In China's some regions, Daoism is the main religion, some places is confucianism or Mahajana; Korea and Japan prefer the Mahayana. Then this sysyem can solve the conflict of Eastern Buddhism is not the main worship in reality east Asia, and player can also choose the order of Sanjiao to get their modifiers, buffs and decisions.
 
Buddhism and Bon should be classified as Dharmic religions alongside Hinduism, Jainism, and Sikhism. Then, Daoism, Confucianism, Shintoism, and even Sanjiao should be grouped as "Daoic" religions. Also, Eastern Buddhism should probably be renamed "Mahayana", "Chinese Buddhism", or "Han Buddhism".
 
  • 3Like
  • 1
Reactions: