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Tinto Talks # 7 -10th of April

Welcome to the seventh edition of Tinto Talks, where we talk about really super secret stuff, that is hidden behind the code name of ‘Project Caesar’.

Today we’ll look into what makes up the economy in Project Caesar. Obviously, we’ll go into much more detail on some of these aspects in later Tinto Talks. Right now though, we’ll go through the incomes and expenses of a country in the game.

Every month you have running incomes and expenses that need to be balanced, and if your balance is positive, your gold is increased and you can use that gold to invest in other things.

And with balancing incomes and expenses, of course there are sliders. Having some buttons for just a few possible options for taxes or expenses, like in Imperator, is not really fitting for a GSG with deep economical gameplay.

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Incomes

If we start with income, you have trade-related incomes, which is a system we will delve deep into in early May, as well as diplomatically related income. You also gain gold from provinces (not locations) that sell surplus food they can not store in their local market. Neither of these you directly control with any slider though.

The bulk of most countries' income will come from taxes though, and taxes in Project Caesar are really different than before. First of all, every estate has a possible tax base, a concept we will delve into much more detail next week. This you can attempt tax from them, but every estate has a maximum tax you can take from them, which depends on your laws and their privileges, and how much power they have in your country. The higher the tax you take from them, the lower their satisfaction equilibrium becomes. Some examples of tax affecting things include the Catholic religion which limits the taxes on Clergy, and also the ‘Auxilium et Consilium’ estate privilege for the nobles, which reduces the tax they pay.

Finally, for something that has existed in some older of our games, we have minting. Now what is that you may ask? Minting is the possibility to get more money by printing more coins. It just has the slight drawback of increasing your inflation the more you do it.

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Here we have the possibility to tax the commoners a fair bit more…


Expenses
We all do love gaining gold, but sadly we also have to spend it, and while we can reduce some of the spending, we can not completely avoid all of it.

First of all, we have the Cost of the Court. This is something that is directly correlated to the economic base of your country, and if you spend less gold than expected, your legitimacy, or equivalent applicable government power, will decrease over time, and the more you spend, the more legitimacy can increase. There are advances, laws, and other things that impact how much you need to spend here.

Then we have the cost for your standing army and navy, where spending less reduces their fighting capability. This is nothing new to our GSG games, so I am not sure why I need to mention this here.

Fort Maintenance is another common economic expense from our games, which is here as well. If you don’t pay, garrisons don’t tend to stick around.

Culture, this is an entirely new concept, which will become available in the Age of Renaissance, where you can invest money to get [TO BE TALKED ABOUT LATER], while also impacting your prestige.

You can also decide how much you wish to spend on your colonial charters, which is a new system we will talk about later this year.

Finally, the last thing you can impact with a slider is your investment in stability. The cost for how much your investments are needed depends on the size of your country, with different laws and societal values impacting it as well. Stability in itself ranges from +100 to -100, and will decay towards 0 on its own. There are two other ways to impact your stability gain, besides investing gold as mentioned here. One of them relates to the cabinet system, but another is a more long-term impact from how your country is built up, as it is based upon how many clergy pops you have of your state religion compared to the total population.

There are other expenses as you can see below, but one important thing to mention is that provinces that lack food will try to buy it from the local market.
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Maybe maybe we should cut down on our fleet, and maybe we don’t need ALL those forts. Our standing army of 200 brave footmen is enough!

Next week we’ll talk more in depth about how the tax base functions, how the food system works, and some other related issues.
 
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Question about inflation: will "inflation" again really just be a measure of current prices vs a baseline price, or will it be modelling what inflation actually is (rate of change of prices relative to, typically, the same time 12 months ago)?

So that is, EU4 style "inflation": prices are 1.5% higher than the baseline, but are not increasing further, "inflation" = 1.5%. (Real inflation value could be 0% in this scenario).

vs what inflation actually means: difference from baseline price is irrelevant, but prices are increasing by 1.5% per year, inflation = 1.5%.
 
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I have a suggestion to make regarding bankruptcy. I would very welcome the idea for bankrupted nations either to get dissolved into multiple states through dissolution factions OR the Nation getting easier vassalized by another stronger nation. I don’t really like the idea of continuing the game after your nation got bankrupted. I think it should be the same way as CK3 once your dynasty dies. However I encourage promoting a system of compromise, similar to how wandering nobles in CK3 works, so you might loose your titles or your nation, but you can still exist in the game as a “observer sort” way and still interact with the game, albeit with less influence. I like the CK3 mechanic of moving around the map trying to get another title. In EU5 a system where you can play as a sort of “rump state” of your former nation (maybe only crown land areas) or preventing such dissolution scenario by accepting vassalization offfers from neighboring AIs would be AWESOME
 
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I would very welcome the idea for bankrupted nations either to get dissolved into multiple states through dissolution factions OR the Nation getting easier vassalized by another stronger nation. I don’t really like the idea of continuing the game after your nation got bankrupted.
Spain under the Habsburgs defaulted several times in the 16th century and did not get dissolved by its domestic magnates or subjugated by foreign princes.

(And, like, there would absolutely have been a framework for such a dissolution, since Spain was on paper a union of multiple kingdoms.)

You might not like being able to keep playing past a sovereign default, but you'll just have to enforce that rule on yourself.
 
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Good evening.
I am very happy fot this super mega hyper secret project and look forward to buying it (hopefully just once - winking at 40 dlcs).
I have a small advice that I think would make the peace-time gameplay better and lacks in previous games such as - completely random and unrelated to project Ceasar - EU IV: let us play with loans. I mean if I play as de'Medici family in the republic - sure- of Florence, I want to be able to lend a ton of money to other nations and being able to influence them in times of peace. It would be huge, and it could have consequences if they don't pay (like a casus belli for me). Also the ease of being able to lend money could be related to a societal value, such as if I am more a mercantile country (like Venice - yes I'm Italian and like playing there a lot) countries could be more lenient to accept my loans, instead if I am a infimous war making Sforza, people shouldn't trust me.
Thanks for the attention and keep up the good work.
 
Is 'stability' really something you can simply spend money on it and magically improve? Would it better to named it ad 'bureaucracy' or 'administration' and make it relevant for other things, such as stability, your capacity to govern far provinces, etc?

Stability should really be a number that shows how stable your country is based on other factors.

E.g. 45 Stability = 0 + 83 (Nobility state loyalty) - 40 (Devestation) - 35 (Protestant rebels) + 30 (healthy treasury), etc

You'd be fixing Stability by addressing those factors.
 
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Minting should not directly cause x% of inflation I think? Inflation should be a natural result of more coins being minted / earned versus less goods being produced / imported within a certain period on a certain location, instead of a country modefier.
 
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Hi

On regards to the clergy effect on stability, it could be interesting if their impact was related to tolerance, and that could also make it so other religions clergy would also affect it if present (this second part at least as a moddeable function would be cool)

Good luck with the project, so far looks really promising