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Tinto Talks #9 - 24th of April 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, this is the 9th of its kind, where we talk about our very secret game using the codename Project Caesar. And today we continue with the 3rd of the 4 talks we have now about the economy systems of the game. So lets start..

Constructions
In the previous development diary, we mentioned constructions and how you needed lumber for expanding the mines. In this game, almost all constructions require different materials to progress, and if that material is not available in the local market, then that construction is stalled until the material is available. This includes things like road building, shipbuilding, recruiting regiments, building buildings, or expanding R.G.O’s.

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Not sure why you want another monastery?

For example, building a light ship in the Age of Renaissance requires Naval Supplies, Lumber, Weaponry, Copper, Tin, and Metalworks, while moving your capital requires Paper, Books, Stone, Lumber, Marble, and gold.


Buildings
Buildings are rather important in Project Caesar. There are hundreds of different types of buildings, some can only be built in rural locations, and some require a town or city. Some can only be built in ports, and some can only be built in other countries. Some you can only build when there is no owner of a location. Lots of buildings are unique to cultures, regions, religions, or even to specific tags.

Some buildings can only have 1 level, some have a fixed cap, and some have a cap that scales with the population or development, and so on.

Buildings can also be categorized into three different categories: buildings that can produce goods, buildings that only give effects, and buildings that can only be built by the estates. Those pure estates usually have a drawback to them as well, and it's not easy to remove them

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Definitely not something we are all that keen on having in here.. it does increase demands for some goods though..

So what about producing buildings then? This is where the truly fun parts of the economy start. Project Caesar has a large amount of different goods. We currently have about 70 different ones that have different needs, some are needed for the military, some are needed solely by pops, some are needed for buildings, and so on.

Producing Buildings in towns and cities go from guilds and workshops to manufactories and mills at the of the game. These include everything from Paper Makers Guilds to Foundries. A producing building outputs one or more types of goods.

Finally, we have buildings that are purely giving an effect. These include Granaries that increase how much food you can store, libraries that increase literacy, different types of forts, buildings that train manpower, port buildings to help with shipbuilding, and much more.

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Some claim you can build Stockades of wood, but we trust only stone!

Almost all buildings though, have a production method, which impacts how they work.

Production methods
All buildings have at least one production method slot with one production method, but many have different methods in each slot, and there are plenty of buildings with multiple production method slots.

What is a production method then?
A production method is a list of goods that are required for a building to function. There are two categories of production methods, those that produce something and those that do not.
As an example, a Castle does not produce any goods, but it still requires Stone, Metalworks, Weaponry, and Tar to function, and if it does not get those goods, then the Castle will not function properly. The effectiveness of a building is based on the lowest available percentage of goods present, and it will only purchase and use required materials in that percentage required. If the market cannot supply enough resources, then it will not work.

The output of the producing building is also scaled by the percentage mentioned above.

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There are a few options here, but only wood pulp would be profitable here, probably because of the great supply of lumber in this market..

And of course, you can automate the production method selection, which will adapt it on a monthly basis based on what resources are available and what would be profitable. The UI also allows for macro decisions regarding production methods

Other important aspects
Every building requires employed pops to function as well, and those that require “upper class” pops like burghers, clergy, and nobles, also increase the potential for them in the location, making pops slowly promoted. This can be slightly awkward as powerful nobles or clergy construct more buildings that make them more numerous and powerful.


Producing buildings that are not profitable will be closed, and pops will work in other buildings, however, you can always subsidize a building if you require the goods or other benefits it gives.

Speaking of profit. The profit of a building is added to the Tax Base of a location, split among the power of the population in the location.

You can always close and open a building, if you want to manipulate prices, or if you want your pops to work with other things, and you don’t want to destroy a building permanently.



We mentioned last week about different ways to get raw materials, and one way to get it, besides trade, is through a set of rural buildings. These include Lumber Mills that you can build in any wood or forest location to produce lumber, sheep farms, stone quarries, and many more.

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Yeah, this requires some input.. Might be worth it..


There are stockpiles of goods, but those are in the market. There are buildings you can build that increase the amount they can store, as if you do not have the goods required for a building, unit, or construction, those will not function.

Speaking of markets, that is something we will talk about more next week when we delve deep into the trade system.
 
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I might not understood it correctly, but from the screenshot it means that for the castle to function to maintain 500 garrison and ZoC, it would need monthly (or some interval) supply of Stone, Tools, Weapons and Tar?

While for other production buildings, e.g. Paper Mill, not receiving input makes sense that it will impact output efficiency (no wood, no paper), then not having a Stone for a Castle for even couple months shouldn't be that big of a problem, right? I mean, how often do you make repairs that require stone for an unsieged Castle?
 
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A few questions about churches.

1.) will different religions impact things. Ie I am Anglican but the church is catholic?
2.) shouldn’t religious buildings make people happy. As building them is something that many villages wanted.
3.) are they localized for different religions? Ie mosque for Muslims?
 
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Are you able to destroy buildings when you’re attacking? If I’m trying to take a few locations on my border can I destroy buildings deeper in my enemies territory to make future conquest easier?

not easily.

If building are able to be destroyed. Would it be possible say for there to be an event on the game that would damage a fort I.E the fort at gallipoli that was damaged by an earthquake and led to Ottomans being able to take it?
 
I hope production chains will be local at the beginning of the game only to globalize towards the end.

I am not sure about nobles "recruiting" people though. They were a hereditary class.

Also not a fan of AI-generated artwork.
 
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Holy smokes those building numbers and goods! Let's hope the systems are as deep and intricate as it's sounding like.
Don't dumb it down for accessibility, learning the game and immersing yourself is quite literally the fun of the GSGs we've come to love from PDX!

Another great Tinto Talk for definitely not EU5, cheers guys!
 
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And of course, you can automate the production method selection, which will adapt it on a monthly basis based on what resources are available and what would be profitable. The UI also allows for macro decisions regarding production methods

I was very slightly worried when I saw production methods, but then I read this. Neat!
 
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Let's hope that not only the hard core and Johan like it in the end. I also have to sell it. With Vic3 and CK3, it feels like the predecessors are still more popular.

I'm not a hardcore EU4 fan. And CK3 is way more popular than CK2, currently 10 times more playing Ck3 on steam. I think CK3 was a big improvement on the characters and RP aspect of CK2, but the world still feels a bit more shallow than CK2. Victoria I don't really care about, wasn't a big fan of 2 and def not of 3. But I hope this game digs deeper into worldbuilding and historical simulation for the early modern period, like CK3 dug deeper with character-building and RP elements for the medieval world. Like if EU5 is able to make the world in 1300 feel alive and complex, that you struggle to keep your nation stable and competitive with you neighbors both economically and politically rather than just a conquer province ABC map painting game I'm all for it.
 
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Do buildings employ pops?
It doesn't have to be specific pops in specific buildings
You just have workforce ratio (20% - 30% by endgame), and potential employment from all buildings.

If those two are far from each other, then either state has lots of simulated vacancies and buildings are less effective and start downscaling.
Or you have lots of unemployment and pops work in subsistence farms, but even worse than in Vicky 3.
 
Let's hope that not only the hard core and Johan like it in the end. I also have to sell it. With Vic3 and CK3, it feels like the predecessors are still more popular.
By no metric is Victoria 2 more popular than Victoria 3. There are some vocal grognards that miss moving military armies around manually, but the game is pretty good and is gaining concurrent players far above Victoria 2 ever was.
 
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These include Granaries that increase how much food you can store,

This particular line jumped out at me. Does this mean you can build large granaries in important castles to make it so that they could hold out for potentially decades in a siege?

Edit: Sorry checking in during brief breaks at work. Already confirmed in prior posts. Praise Johan
 
the current is the one that is created.
So the financial gains from a building are the same, independent of control ?

For example, Kalmar in TT8 was
taxcontrol
current
0.42​
56.15%​
potential
0.44​
58.20%​
max
0.76​
100%​

adding a building which gives .25 income, it becomes :
tax with buildingcontrol with building
current
0.67​
66.34%​
potential
0.69​
68.32%​
max
1.01​
100%​

Is that correct ? Which would mean that having active buildings increases control (which is not necessarily a bad thing).
 
Will buildings require upkeep, outside of their production method, ie, even when they're turned "off" and not producing anything. So if I had, say a paper mill that I stopped from producing paper, will it still need a little bit of wood a month or else deteriorate away into nothing?

Edit: so buildings will decay to nothing if they have no production method?
 
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