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Tinto Talks #9 - 24th of April 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, this is the 9th of its kind, where we talk about our very secret game using the codename Project Caesar. And today we continue with the 3rd of the 4 talks we have now about the economy systems of the game. So lets start..

Constructions
In the previous development diary, we mentioned constructions and how you needed lumber for expanding the mines. In this game, almost all constructions require different materials to progress, and if that material is not available in the local market, then that construction is stalled until the material is available. This includes things like road building, shipbuilding, recruiting regiments, building buildings, or expanding R.G.O’s.

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Not sure why you want another monastery?

For example, building a light ship in the Age of Renaissance requires Naval Supplies, Lumber, Weaponry, Copper, Tin, and Metalworks, while moving your capital requires Paper, Books, Stone, Lumber, Marble, and gold.


Buildings
Buildings are rather important in Project Caesar. There are hundreds of different types of buildings, some can only be built in rural locations, and some require a town or city. Some can only be built in ports, and some can only be built in other countries. Some you can only build when there is no owner of a location. Lots of buildings are unique to cultures, regions, religions, or even to specific tags.

Some buildings can only have 1 level, some have a fixed cap, and some have a cap that scales with the population or development, and so on.

Buildings can also be categorized into three different categories: buildings that can produce goods, buildings that only give effects, and buildings that can only be built by the estates. Those pure estates usually have a drawback to them as well, and it's not easy to remove them

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Definitely not something we are all that keen on having in here.. it does increase demands for some goods though..

So what about producing buildings then? This is where the truly fun parts of the economy start. Project Caesar has a large amount of different goods. We currently have about 70 different ones that have different needs, some are needed for the military, some are needed solely by pops, some are needed for buildings, and so on.

Producing Buildings in towns and cities go from guilds and workshops to manufactories and mills at the of the game. These include everything from Paper Makers Guilds to Foundries. A producing building outputs one or more types of goods.

Finally, we have buildings that are purely giving an effect. These include Granaries that increase how much food you can store, libraries that increase literacy, different types of forts, buildings that train manpower, port buildings to help with shipbuilding, and much more.

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Some claim you can build Stockades of wood, but we trust only stone!

Almost all buildings though, have a production method, which impacts how they work.

Production methods
All buildings have at least one production method slot with one production method, but many have different methods in each slot, and there are plenty of buildings with multiple production method slots.

What is a production method then?
A production method is a list of goods that are required for a building to function. There are two categories of production methods, those that produce something and those that do not.
As an example, a Castle does not produce any goods, but it still requires Stone, Metalworks, Weaponry, and Tar to function, and if it does not get those goods, then the Castle will not function properly. The effectiveness of a building is based on the lowest available percentage of goods present, and it will only purchase and use required materials in that percentage required. If the market cannot supply enough resources, then it will not work.

The output of the producing building is also scaled by the percentage mentioned above.

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There are a few options here, but only wood pulp would be profitable here, probably because of the great supply of lumber in this market..

And of course, you can automate the production method selection, which will adapt it on a monthly basis based on what resources are available and what would be profitable. The UI also allows for macro decisions regarding production methods

Other important aspects
Every building requires employed pops to function as well, and those that require “upper class” pops like burghers, clergy, and nobles, also increase the potential for them in the location, making pops slowly promoted. This can be slightly awkward as powerful nobles or clergy construct more buildings that make them more numerous and powerful.


Producing buildings that are not profitable will be closed, and pops will work in other buildings, however, you can always subsidize a building if you require the goods or other benefits it gives.

Speaking of profit. The profit of a building is added to the Tax Base of a location, split among the power of the population in the location.

You can always close and open a building, if you want to manipulate prices, or if you want your pops to work with other things, and you don’t want to destroy a building permanently.



We mentioned last week about different ways to get raw materials, and one way to get it, besides trade, is through a set of rural buildings. These include Lumber Mills that you can build in any wood or forest location to produce lumber, sheep farms, stone quarries, and many more.

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Yeah, this requires some input.. Might be worth it..


There are stockpiles of goods, but those are in the market. There are buildings you can build that increase the amount they can store, as if you do not have the goods required for a building, unit, or construction, those will not function.

Speaking of markets, that is something we will talk about more next week when we delve deep into the trade system.
 
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wait, no, my comment from last week about how this is not EU V, just a new timeline expansion for Vicky III was meant as a joke, how did we end up with a more complex economic model than Vicky III????
 
Why shouldn't I use automatic PMs if it updates to the most efficient one constantly? Like when is it relevant to micro it?

When you want to manipulate prices, or to make economic warfare on someone?
 
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So you know how in EU4 for example I can just sort buildings by income they would provide when built. Is this possible in Project Caesar as well? I really don't want to micromanage or think about it much. I see big green number, I build. I like having the buildings, I just don't want to think about them too much.
 
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So if someone wanted to do Vicky 3/Cold War/Modern Day mod for EUVictoria, how it would compare to Vicky 3 itself?
Would it run as fast if not faster than Vicky 3?
I wonder how detailed politics or pop income/wealth distribution would be.
 
'd not go with less than 32gb for anything these days anyway.
Are you saying that as a dev or as a player? I min-maxed my build for PDX GSGs, but so far with 16GB of RAM the worst bottleneck I've had was with the graphics card, or lack thereof. Upgrading to a GTX 960 (this was in 2021 for reference) fixed that though.

Eitherway, what I'm asking is, all else equal, could I expect significant performance improvements from doubling my RAM at this point? Or is that for running Excel spreadsheets and two dozen browser tabs on another screen? I don't need a concrete answer for this game, but for the rest of your catalogue I'm genuinely curious.
 
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So you know how in EU4 for example I can just sort buildings by income they would provide when built. Is this possible in Project Caesar as well? I really don't want to micromanage or think about it much. I see big green number, I build. I like having the buildings, I just don't want to think about them too much.

Thats one way to use the UI.

There is also a few more modern UI systems we have that accumulates any goods you may have need of and create a nice macro builder system for you to trade, build or expand for the resource from clicking the Alert for "Missing Goods".
 
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How do Church buildings being conquered by heathens work? Do new clergy pops from the conquering religion automatically begin working in the church and can convert it to a mosque? Or do religious toleration mechanics play some role? For example, if the Ottomans were to conquer Byzantium, would Greek cleric orthodox pops still be allowed to operate their churches, or would they be converted to mosques? Hopefully, this question makes sense.
 
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Did you pick up some of these diverse building ideas from Field of Glory Empires? That game and its medieval successor (hopefully soon to be released) can be characterized by their plentiful buildings, the way those buildings define a location and the resulting trade system. All in all, very cool that this "project" is going down that route.
 
Rules are more similar to Imperator, which was a 2.0 of the system.

Of course, in the Napoleonic Age, you can freely ignore ZoC if you got the tech for it.
You only mentioned tech like 4 times in all dev diaries and posts,is it safe to assume that they won't work much differently from other pdx GSGs?(Particularly the eu4 system)
 
Please no MAPI.
I don't think local prices will be in the game, but I presume the price of goods in a market will be influenced by the availability and demand of said good in the market, and a location's need satisfaction is in part reliant on how much access it has to the market its location belongs to.
 
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When you want to manipulate prices, or to make economic warfare on someone?
Does the UI allow operating on many building for such purposes? For example, can you change all Paper producing buildings to start using some PM or does it have to be done one by one? Or can you change the PM of all buildings for some specific goal, i.e. to maximise the price of X good in Y market etc.?