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Tinto Talks #9 - 24th of April 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, this is the 9th of its kind, where we talk about our very secret game using the codename Project Caesar. And today we continue with the 3rd of the 4 talks we have now about the economy systems of the game. So lets start..

Constructions
In the previous development diary, we mentioned constructions and how you needed lumber for expanding the mines. In this game, almost all constructions require different materials to progress, and if that material is not available in the local market, then that construction is stalled until the material is available. This includes things like road building, shipbuilding, recruiting regiments, building buildings, or expanding R.G.O’s.

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Not sure why you want another monastery?

For example, building a light ship in the Age of Renaissance requires Naval Supplies, Lumber, Weaponry, Copper, Tin, and Metalworks, while moving your capital requires Paper, Books, Stone, Lumber, Marble, and gold.


Buildings
Buildings are rather important in Project Caesar. There are hundreds of different types of buildings, some can only be built in rural locations, and some require a town or city. Some can only be built in ports, and some can only be built in other countries. Some you can only build when there is no owner of a location. Lots of buildings are unique to cultures, regions, religions, or even to specific tags.

Some buildings can only have 1 level, some have a fixed cap, and some have a cap that scales with the population or development, and so on.

Buildings can also be categorized into three different categories: buildings that can produce goods, buildings that only give effects, and buildings that can only be built by the estates. Those pure estates usually have a drawback to them as well, and it's not easy to remove them

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Definitely not something we are all that keen on having in here.. it does increase demands for some goods though..

So what about producing buildings then? This is where the truly fun parts of the economy start. Project Caesar has a large amount of different goods. We currently have about 70 different ones that have different needs, some are needed for the military, some are needed solely by pops, some are needed for buildings, and so on.

Producing Buildings in towns and cities go from guilds and workshops to manufactories and mills at the of the game. These include everything from Paper Makers Guilds to Foundries. A producing building outputs one or more types of goods.

Finally, we have buildings that are purely giving an effect. These include Granaries that increase how much food you can store, libraries that increase literacy, different types of forts, buildings that train manpower, port buildings to help with shipbuilding, and much more.

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Some claim you can build Stockades of wood, but we trust only stone!

Almost all buildings though, have a production method, which impacts how they work.

Production methods
All buildings have at least one production method slot with one production method, but many have different methods in each slot, and there are plenty of buildings with multiple production method slots.

What is a production method then?
A production method is a list of goods that are required for a building to function. There are two categories of production methods, those that produce something and those that do not.
As an example, a Castle does not produce any goods, but it still requires Stone, Metalworks, Weaponry, and Tar to function, and if it does not get those goods, then the Castle will not function properly. The effectiveness of a building is based on the lowest available percentage of goods present, and it will only purchase and use required materials in that percentage required. If the market cannot supply enough resources, then it will not work.

The output of the producing building is also scaled by the percentage mentioned above.

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There are a few options here, but only wood pulp would be profitable here, probably because of the great supply of lumber in this market..

And of course, you can automate the production method selection, which will adapt it on a monthly basis based on what resources are available and what would be profitable. The UI also allows for macro decisions regarding production methods

Other important aspects
Every building requires employed pops to function as well, and those that require “upper class” pops like burghers, clergy, and nobles, also increase the potential for them in the location, making pops slowly promoted. This can be slightly awkward as powerful nobles or clergy construct more buildings that make them more numerous and powerful.


Producing buildings that are not profitable will be closed, and pops will work in other buildings, however, you can always subsidize a building if you require the goods or other benefits it gives.

Speaking of profit. The profit of a building is added to the Tax Base of a location, split among the power of the population in the location.

You can always close and open a building, if you want to manipulate prices, or if you want your pops to work with other things, and you don’t want to destroy a building permanently.



We mentioned last week about different ways to get raw materials, and one way to get it, besides trade, is through a set of rural buildings. These include Lumber Mills that you can build in any wood or forest location to produce lumber, sheep farms, stone quarries, and many more.

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Yeah, this requires some input.. Might be worth it..


There are stockpiles of goods, but those are in the market. There are buildings you can build that increase the amount they can store, as if you do not have the goods required for a building, unit, or construction, those will not function.

Speaking of markets, that is something we will talk about more next week when we delve deep into the trade system.
 
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Would Lumber production cause a location to go from forested to Grassland due to deforestation? Also is it possible to change location types? For example the state implementing a policy of deforestation to create farmlands?
 
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Will there be a fix for the issue in EU4 where the AI would go through player-built fortresses?
In eu4, the AI follows the same movement rules as the player. If it moves through forts, a player could do the same if the player would be in the exact same situation. For example you can move through a fort province if the province behind the fort is in the ZoC of a friendly fort.
 
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Would Lumber production cause a location to go from forested to Grassland due to deforestation? Also is it possible to change location types? For example the state implementing a policy of deforestation to create farmlands?
not quickly without trains and assisted saws, that said the forests of gaul were cut back in the era.
Never a policy and in fact there were a lot of policies to ban the peasants from the forests entirely cutting down trees etc causing deforestation. Forests are afterall a great source of wealth: charcoal is a fantastic business.
 
What about when the castle is besieged
Since the invaders will block the supplys how will castle get access to goods which requires him to function properly?
So, it needs to use weaponry and stone in his stocks I guess, so will we be able to store production method goods in castles?
Also, will castle weaponry and stone usage increase during the siege since they will be using and repairing
And on the flip side, can the attacker's siege progress (or equivalent for Caesar) be stalled because of a lack of goods? "We can't shoot down this wall sir, we don't have enough gunpowder and cannonballs".
 
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maybe. depends on the code technology i hope is ready soon.
God I hope we’ll get this, it would be so cool to see your landscape change over time. I’d love to have big infrastructure projects like dikes or canals that could change marsh into farmland, or to see the long-term deforestation effects of a timber industry.
 
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Rules are more similar to Imperator, which was a 2.0 of the system.

Of course, in the Napoleonic Age, you can freely ignore ZoC if you got the tech for it.
But wouldn’t CK3’s system work better? All throughout history armies could just walk past Forts/Castles, they just chose not to due to supply line issues from the Fort/Castle garrison and being attacked from behind. so why not let armies pass but give them huge amounts of attrition, but in situations where both sides are friendly territory and the fort is in the middle, walking past it would cause no issues.
Also is a Supply Line system even considered for the game?
 
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not quickly without trains and assisted saws, that said the forests of gaul were cut back in the era.
Never a policy and in fact there were a lot of policies to ban the peasants from the forests entirely cutting down trees etc causing deforestation. Forests are afterall a great source of wealth: charcoal is a fantastic business.
Sure in the old world in might’ve been regulated but in the New world, most places were heavily forested but got cut down to make farmlands by incoming settlers, so a policy of deforestation specifically for Colonial lands would make sense. Have locations be forests before colonization and then farmlands after through state policy
 
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Hmmm. On one hand, I like how this feels less gamey, but I did like how in EU4 the local good made provinces feel more distinctive. I hope there are some local modifiers (ideally deriving largely from geography, like greater trade power at the confluences of rivers or greater defensiveness in mountains).
 
Coal and iron to make steel?
In 1850 sure. Or you are an indian... the dot variety and have teh secret of the multi thousand year old delhi pillar. Then again you can do super computer level advanced math with rolling temple pillars then too. Even muild nukes and mold stone like it was clay like making links in chains. Well no one admits to knowing that last secret. just some of the chains survive of incompatible stone types ie not carved. Or stone altered to have musical tones.
 
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Hi Johan, can the crown have monopolies on certain goods/buildings? So that, for instance, the profit generated by a certain building goes straight to the crown instead of being divided between the estates and then taxed.

Similarly, can you give monopolies to certain estates? (like in EU4). For instance the profits from game hunting go to the nobles only.
 
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Sure in the old world in might’ve been regulated but in the New world, most places were heavily forested but got cut down to make farmlands by incoming settlers, so a policy of deforestation specifically for Colonial lands would make sense. Have locations be forests before colonization and then farmlands after through state policy
The new world if run like a maximum exploitation colony and the land hacked as bare as a plucked chicken as opposed to settling. Still the manpower will be lacking without extraordinary player intervention.
 
Hey, late to the party, but i got a question, ignore if it came up already:

Will there be a Building Ownership System? (Like with the upcoming Vic3 Update) I know/guess the profits are handled differently to Vic3 from what i read so far, but this totally rules out foreign investment and such...
Is this intended? Or will there be other ways of influencing other countries economies
 
Hey, late to the party, but i got a question, ignore if it came up already:

Will there be a Building Ownership System? (Like with the upcoming Vic3 Update) I know/guess the profits are handled differently to Vic3 from what i read so far, but this totally rules out foreign investment and such...
Is this intended? Or will there be other ways of influencing other countries economies
Go look at the parish church picture again. Notice the peasant icon.. no doubt indicating ownership
 
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Looks like a good system. Great job!

I am bracing for next week's TT on the trade system. I'm not a fan of Vic 3's style markets. That system needs an iterative improvement, imo. At minimum, there needs to be multiple markets for large countries. Here's hoping, but I am not going to hold my breath.

Anyone see any suggestion that we'll get something better than Vic 3?
 
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Is there any way to change resource production? For example, could farmlands in North America be converted to horse pastures once horses are introduced there?