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Tinto Talks #9 - 24th of April 2024

Welcome to another Tinto Talks, this is the 9th of its kind, where we talk about our very secret game using the codename Project Caesar. And today we continue with the 3rd of the 4 talks we have now about the economy systems of the game. So lets start..

Constructions
In the previous development diary, we mentioned constructions and how you needed lumber for expanding the mines. In this game, almost all constructions require different materials to progress, and if that material is not available in the local market, then that construction is stalled until the material is available. This includes things like road building, shipbuilding, recruiting regiments, building buildings, or expanding R.G.O’s.

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Not sure why you want another monastery?

For example, building a light ship in the Age of Renaissance requires Naval Supplies, Lumber, Weaponry, Copper, Tin, and Metalworks, while moving your capital requires Paper, Books, Stone, Lumber, Marble, and gold.


Buildings
Buildings are rather important in Project Caesar. There are hundreds of different types of buildings, some can only be built in rural locations, and some require a town or city. Some can only be built in ports, and some can only be built in other countries. Some you can only build when there is no owner of a location. Lots of buildings are unique to cultures, regions, religions, or even to specific tags.

Some buildings can only have 1 level, some have a fixed cap, and some have a cap that scales with the population or development, and so on.

Buildings can also be categorized into three different categories: buildings that can produce goods, buildings that only give effects, and buildings that can only be built by the estates. Those pure estates usually have a drawback to them as well, and it's not easy to remove them

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Definitely not something we are all that keen on having in here.. it does increase demands for some goods though..

So what about producing buildings then? This is where the truly fun parts of the economy start. Project Caesar has a large amount of different goods. We currently have about 70 different ones that have different needs, some are needed for the military, some are needed solely by pops, some are needed for buildings, and so on.

Producing Buildings in towns and cities go from guilds and workshops to manufactories and mills at the of the game. These include everything from Paper Makers Guilds to Foundries. A producing building outputs one or more types of goods.

Finally, we have buildings that are purely giving an effect. These include Granaries that increase how much food you can store, libraries that increase literacy, different types of forts, buildings that train manpower, port buildings to help with shipbuilding, and much more.

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Some claim you can build Stockades of wood, but we trust only stone!

Almost all buildings though, have a production method, which impacts how they work.

Production methods
All buildings have at least one production method slot with one production method, but many have different methods in each slot, and there are plenty of buildings with multiple production method slots.

What is a production method then?
A production method is a list of goods that are required for a building to function. There are two categories of production methods, those that produce something and those that do not.
As an example, a Castle does not produce any goods, but it still requires Stone, Metalworks, Weaponry, and Tar to function, and if it does not get those goods, then the Castle will not function properly. The effectiveness of a building is based on the lowest available percentage of goods present, and it will only purchase and use required materials in that percentage required. If the market cannot supply enough resources, then it will not work.

The output of the producing building is also scaled by the percentage mentioned above.

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There are a few options here, but only wood pulp would be profitable here, probably because of the great supply of lumber in this market..

And of course, you can automate the production method selection, which will adapt it on a monthly basis based on what resources are available and what would be profitable. The UI also allows for macro decisions regarding production methods

Other important aspects
Every building requires employed pops to function as well, and those that require “upper class” pops like burghers, clergy, and nobles, also increase the potential for them in the location, making pops slowly promoted. This can be slightly awkward as powerful nobles or clergy construct more buildings that make them more numerous and powerful.


Producing buildings that are not profitable will be closed, and pops will work in other buildings, however, you can always subsidize a building if you require the goods or other benefits it gives.

Speaking of profit. The profit of a building is added to the Tax Base of a location, split among the power of the population in the location.

You can always close and open a building, if you want to manipulate prices, or if you want your pops to work with other things, and you don’t want to destroy a building permanently.



We mentioned last week about different ways to get raw materials, and one way to get it, besides trade, is through a set of rural buildings. These include Lumber Mills that you can build in any wood or forest location to produce lumber, sheep farms, stone quarries, and many more.

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Yeah, this requires some input.. Might be worth it..


There are stockpiles of goods, but those are in the market. There are buildings you can build that increase the amount they can store, as if you do not have the goods required for a building, unit, or construction, those will not function.

Speaking of markets, that is something we will talk about more next week when we delve deep into the trade system.
 
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Will feitorias be in the game? and if so will only portugal be able to build them or will nations like venice and genoa also have access to them? could they also be one of those building that you can only build in foreign territory?
 
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Yes we've only had talks on the economy (after base features of estates...) but project Ceasar is looking a lot like Vicky 3 on the eco. Do you have any fears of beeing "too similar" to Vicky on the subject?
 
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Preposterous! We must have stroopwafels as a compensation. They were invented in 1810 so go well with the paper pulp invention!
Alternatively, you get meatballs, we get tulips, deal? They're supposedly both Turkish anyways, so that might appease the call for Turkish language until you can confirm its inclusion, winwinwin ;)

well, i don't live in Sweden anymore... :)
 
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Pops are economy tho, you can't just make stuff not consumable by pops for export while you import all pop needs.
 
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@Johan
You mentioned here production methods are about reducing the number of buildings, but in the DD you mention "there are hundreds of different types of buildings".
Does the "hundreds" mean the max permutation of production methods X building types? Or purely buildings types alone?

purely buildings.

As an example, we used to have multiple granaries, but when we added production methods, we could reduce it to one. Which helps you to not have to rebuild buildings when potatoes spread into europe.
 
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Why would someone need to be TAG = NED or Dutch to build polders? That's exactly the kind of thing that shouldn't be TAG (or in this case, even culture) specific.

NED doesn't exist at the start... its a culture check
 
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This is truly beautiful!

1. UI Suggestion: please add an “available” amount of material in construction requirements. A similar preview of available material when it comes to the production method could be a life saver! (Or material for my first mod for EU5)

2. Mildly related to the topic here but will the alerts be similar to Eu4? I truly hope so! And in case this is not there, I would suggest an alert for unavailable material and a box for input shortages, similar to the one in Victoria 3 community improvement mod (incorporated from a mod of mine)

Thanks for the impressive work!!!
 
I would like to see in peace deals, a way to demilitarise your enemy, in the way of destroying some of its border forts

yeah, that is a peace treaty you can pick
 
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Is this feature fully implemented and working, or is it in the pipeline, and might get canned and never mentioned again?

its in. I use it most of the time
 
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That's fun because what I miss the most about early EU4 was how powerful the European nations were. Back when India was 1/3 the amount of provinces and only one culture, that felt very colonialist. I don't think the British cared much about the different subcultures of Africa, India or Southeast Asia. They just wanted to know what goods they could steal and sell off back home.
And thats the against history. Of course england was a powerful country when they colonized India. But we are talking about 1337 and its impossible to Compare england with delhi sultanate.
 
Sorry, but what does RGO stand for?

Resource Gathering Operation. Its basically a "pseudobuilding" for getting raw materials from a province/location.

its an acronym we've used since Vicky1.
 
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What about when the castle is besieged
Since the invaders will block the supplys how will castle get access to goods which requires him to function properly?
So, it needs to use weaponry and stone in his stocks I guess, so will we be able to store production method goods in castles?
Also, will castle weaponry and stone usage increase during the siege since they will be using and repairing

The max garrison might decrease, but the actual garrison will not exactly desert.. No impact really.
 
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This is probably going to get buried, but are precious metals (gold, silver) converted into money directly like in EU4, or are they extracted into their respective trade good first? Is Silver group together with Gold?

they are treated like trade goods, but there are some added twists.
 
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So we got firm building like stellaris to accomodate with the trade companies in others countries without conquering it !
It's insane ! MARVELOUS ! DELIGHTFUL !
 
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i like the fact that govt, mil, colonial, etc buildings require inputs and generate outputs. i'm also down for a more industrialized economy as well and can see how it will make "playing tall" more engaging. but will the new economic model be able to represent the cottage industry that prevailed throughout the world for much of this time period? is that a goal of the nation, to move away from a decentralized cottage industry into a more centralized industrial economy?

We will talk a bit about that next week.
 
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Are horses a RGO? If on the contrary they are "produced" by a building that itself requires horses to be built, you can organically simulate the introduction of horses in the new world.

both :p
 
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Please tell me that navy system will be much better than eu4. Will navy wars be more exciting? And can you give a hint about what kind of navy trade and piracy we will see?good or wonderful
 
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Do buildings need to be 100% completed to be operational?

Say a castle is 80 % complete can you garrison it while you seek out more stone? Or decide to pause the building while you build other buildings?

These buildings took years to build but would have been used while still under construction.