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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #124 - What’s next after 1.7

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Double Happy Thursday! As promised last week, today we’ll be returning to the future update plans, which we last touched on in Dev Diary #102. Just like the previous times, we’ll be going over what changes and improvements we have planned for the game in future free updates such as 1.8, 1.9 and beyond.

Once again we will be talking about the same key four improvement areas of Military, Historical Immersion, Diplomacy, Internal Politics as well as Other for anything that falls outside those four categories.

Just as before, I’ll also be aiming to give you an updated overview of where we stand and where we’re heading by going through each of these four categories and marking on each one with one of the below statuses:
  • Done: This is a part of the game that we now consider to be in good shape. Something being Done of course doesn’t mean we’re never going to expand or improve on it in the future, just that it’s no longer a high priority for us. Any points that were already marked as Done in previous updates will be removed from the list, to avoid it growing unmanageably long, but you can look at the older dev diaries (#79, #89 and #102) if you’re interested in what was done previously.
  • Updated: This is a part of the game where we have made some of the improvements and changes that we want to make, but aren’t yet satisfied with where it stands and plan to make further improvements to it in future updates such as 1.8, 1.9 and so on. Note that this section will mainly focus on updates made in 1.6 and 1.7.
  • Not Updated: This is a part of the game where we haven’t yet released any of our planned changes/improvements in any currently released updates but still plan to do so for future updates.
  • New: This is a planned change or improvement that is newly added, i.e. wasn’t present on the list in Dev Diary #102.
  • Reconsidered: This is a previously planned change or improvement that we have reconsidered our approach to how to tackle from previous updates. For these points we will explain what our new plans are, and change the list appropriately in future updates.

For the final bit of repetition: Just as before we will still only be talking about improvements, changes and new features that are part of planned free updates in this dev diary. I will also remind you that this is not an exhaustive list of the things we are going to do, and that something being ‘Done’ doesn’t mean we’re not going to bugfix, balance or make UX improvements to it afterwards. Alright then, onto the dev diary proper.

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Military​

New:
  • Making navies more important for projecting global power and securing control of coasts.
  • Adding a proper system of military access and finding solutions for the other remaining rough edges in the frontline system.
Not Updated:
  • Turning individual ships into proper pieces of military hardware that can be built, sunk and repaired rather than just being manpower packages.
  • Adding a system for limited wars to reduce the number of early-game global wars between Great Powers

Historical Immersion​

Done:
  • Ensuring unifications such as Italy, Germany and Canada don’t constantly happen decades ahead of the historical schedule, and increasing the challenge of unifying Italy and Germany in particular
    • Asides from the AI challenges when it comes to forming Germany/Italy, we are now relatively happy with the state of the unifications. There are certainly ways we want to improve unifications in the future, particularly in tying them much closer to the political systems, but that falls outside the scope of this particular point.
  • General AI tweaks to have AI countries play in a more believable, immersive way
    • With the introduction of Diplomatic Catalysts and various AI improvements in 1.7 we now consider this to be ‘done’, though in reality this is the sort of point that is never going to stop seeing improvements from our end.
Updated:
  • Tweaking content such as the Meiji Restoration, Alaska purchase and so on in a way that they can more frequently be successfully performed by the AI, through a mix of AI improvements and content tweaks
    • After the release of 1.7.2 we now consider this to be ‘almost there’ but still in need of a bit more work.
  • Going through the base game Journal Entries and events and making improvements and additions to ensure that they feel meaningful and impactful for players to interact with
    • We’ve made a number of changes and improvements to older journal entries in 1.6/1.7 such as the addition of scripted progress bars, but we still have more work to do here.
  • Adding more country, state and region-specific content to enhance historical flavor of different countries
    • As before, this is something we’re simply going to keep adding to every single update and is never really going to be ‘Done’. For now I am leaving this entry here to mark that this is still one of our top priorities

Diplomacy​

Done:
  • Improving and expanding on interactions with and from subjects, such as being able to grant and ask for more autonomy through a diplomatic action
  • Have Interest Groups weigh in on diplomacy, for example having the Armed Forces disapprove of an alliance with a country that recently took land from you due to revanchism (Lobbies)
  • Foreign investment and some form of construction in other countries, at least if they’re part of your market
Not Updated:
  • Make declaring and holding onto diplomatic Interests a more rewarding and challenging aspect of global empire-building
  • Allowing peace deals to be negotiated during a Diplomatic Play instead of only having the option to give in

Internal Politics​

Updated:
  • Adding laws that expand on diversity of countries and introduce new ways to play the game
    • Similar to the point for region-specific flavor, this is something that will never really be ‘Done’ but remains here to highlight that we consider it an important priority
Not Updated:
  • Turn legitimacy into a more interesting mechanic, where the strength of a government depends on their successes and failures, and highly legitimate governments can’t simply be ousted at a whim but have to be undermined first.
  • Introduce a concept of national pride which can increase or decrease depending on a country’s actions and which ties directly into legitimacy.
  • Have discrimination not be a purely binary status and reflect forms of discrimination aside from what’s written in the law, as well as making assimilation into a more meaningful mechanic in the process.
New:
  • Find a better solution for the ways ideologies appear, attract followers and create support for reforms than the current RNG-heavy leader ideology system.

Other​

Not Updated:
  • Improve on Companies by turning them into actual actors in your country that can own/expand buildings and interact with characters/politics.
  • Find a way to deal with the excessive fiddliness of the trade system in large economies, possibly by allowing for autonomous trade based on your laws in a similar way to the autonomous investment system.

As always, I cannot make any specific promises about when these things will be coming. However, I can tell you that the next update (1.8) will be a standalone free update that should knock a point or two off this list, but will mainly be focused on bug fixing, general polish and more AI improvements. Before then we also have at least one more hotfix (1.7.4) planned to address the remaining high priority issues from the 1.7 release (tentatively planned for next week) and part of the team will continue working for a few more weeks like I mentioned in last week’s dev diary.

Right then, that’s all for this time, and all for this side of the summer! Dev diaries will return on August 15th but until then, I can but wish you many a Happy Thursday in the sun (or possibly snow, if you happen to live in the south hemisphere). Regardless, I hope you have a great July!
 
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Any plans on improving the trade system? The biggest problem with trade right now is that you are limited by the number of ports which affects the number of convoys produced. It's virtually impossible to play as a small trading country like Singapore since your convoys will easily used up. So to increase convoys you literally have to conquer coastal states in order to get more ports which is ridiculous and unhistorical. You are forced to play wide because of this. All it does is penalize small countries.

People will usually recommend you to join custom union/power bloc market from a great power if you're a small nation, but that kinda defeat the whole purpose of trade since you already have full access for the market goods in a power bloc market.
I have some ideas here yes, related to the work that we want to do to reduce the micromanagement of trade.
please remove port limits, they are nonsensical
 
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Removing them is not the solution. Ports were/are a scarce resource for trade. That's why russia had that warm waters goal all throughout the century.
is there any example of a country running out of port space within a state? the Russians wanted better ports not more of them because they hit the arbitrary limit
 
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I have some ideas here yes, related to the work that we want to do to reduce the micromanagement of trade.

The problem with trade is that not only is micro intensive, its that is kinda pointless. For some reason most trades are unproffitable unless the good is so cheap to produce that your producer loses money which defeats the point of wanting to trade. The other problem is that everyone seems to be able to self produce 90% so there is no reason to trade. A country that exports meat or fish like in real life? Clothes? Never, everyone produces more than they could ever consume of those goods.

Make the economy more disparity so trade can actually have a role!
 
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Is there any plans to streamline process of building and managing armies? Either as purely UI functionality (army builders) or integrated system (army organization tab that could limit army unit ratios giving bonuses similar to mobilization options).

Right now managing armies is perhaps the most annoying busywork in the game and adds to especially late game clutter and micromanagement along with trade. Particularly because army management is tied to already overstretched construction tab.
 
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Adding laws that expand on diversity of countries and introduce new ways to play the game
What I hope for is a less rigid law system. Like why is it that you can't have both a national militia and a secret police? Or homesteading & commercialized agriculture? I imagine there has to be balancing and even greater bureaucracy costs to such a thing, but I like the dynamism that is possible with such a system.

As an aside since I was just reminded of this, Muslim countries should (at least mostly) start with propertied women. Propertied women is a direct and prominent feature of Sharia that existed in Muslim polities since Islam.
 
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A long time ago, there was a dev diary of various members of the Vicky3 team doing little test runs of potential material in their spare time.

One of those was an Archeology/Museum system. Given the prominence of Archeology, Paleontology, and Scientific expeditions in Vicky 3's time frame is there any chance that we might get something like that in the future?

The amazing Morgenröte – Dawn of Flavor mod does something similar to the one in that dev diary but it's forced to work through the existing systems of the game and a dedicated system might be cleaner and more streamlined.
 
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Any plans to reduce micromanagement of production methods? Playing Russia or Qing are a big pain in the mid to late game because I have to deal with all the production methods.
 
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Considering that improving Journal Entries appears to be a key plan going forward, I have some suggestions from my own experience playing the game:

- Please improve the EIC's Journal Entries. I've made a forum post about it but I categorically do not like the way forming India as the EIC works - I think an independent India should be created via revolution or via a separate JE, not by declaring independence as the company. The "success point" of the EIC should be transitioning from an apartheid state into a dominion with Home Rule that has all the indian cultures as accepted, I think.

- I feel like the Austro-Hungarian compromise should be a little bit more of a loss state for Austria - ideally, they'd probably be aiming for a more pluralistic state without massive compromises to powerful Hungarian landowners. Obviously, I don't think the player should be encouraged to go ahead with their germanization policies as a "victory" state.

- Reconstruction in the US needs to be easier. 20% loyalists is actually insanely difficult to accomplish, let alone with the radicalism you get in the region - it's actually easier to make African-Americans a primary culture and get black presidents in the 1850s than it is to successfully reintegrate southerners into the union, which is crazy

- Countries need to have actual incentives to go against the Risorgimento. As it stands, pretty much every italian AI nation will declare support for unification, and as a result a player who wants to make use of the mechanic to foster radicalism in non-unifying Italian states will almost always be unable to.

- The "River of Coffee" JE for Brazil is absurdly difficult because the game mechanically does not create enough demand for coffee at the moment, even if the price of it is at literal rock bottom. This also makes it really difficult to complete the Brazillian National Identity JE without a massive amount of warfare

- Any JE that gives you assimilation as a reward should have this reward removed, because assimilation is almost useless right now - the "Conquest of Algeria" journal entry, for instance, will give you assimilation in the algerian coast. The problem with this is that assimilation literally cannot work in a minority group's homeland state, so this bonus does nothing except for foreign populations that do mass migrations to Algeria, which is clearly not its intended purpose. Either that, or Assimilation as a mechanic should be fundamentally reworked

- It is absurdly difficult to make the Boxer Rebellion happen. If you're doing well, it won't happen, and if you're doing badly you'll probably splinter before it happens.

- The Meiji Restoration operates on the assumption that the Shogunate are outside of the government but the Shogun is still in power. It makes it seem like the shogunate is abolishing itself, which doesn't make a large amount of sense. Outside of that, I'd say the Meiji Restoration is one of the better JEs, so less complaints here

- The "Earning Recognition" JE operates on standard of living and GDP per capita, which are ridiculously difficult to increase for countries with very large populations - I don't think this makes a lot of sense, considering that a few great powers frequently won't have GDP per capita and SoL in the top 50, which will frequently be dominated by random tiny british protectorates. I genuinely believe it makes more sense for this to be changed to total GDP, rather than GDP per capita. Literacy rate certainly makes sense, but I also think technological progress should count towards earning recognition. This JE was added to try and make earning recognition diplomatically more of an option, but right now it seems like not only do the diplomatic maluses to recognition count more than the diplomatic bonuses, it also seems like earning it through warfare has gotten harder, too.
 
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I think Internal politics is the one that needs the most expansion since it's the core focus of the game alongside economy,so adding Cabinets and other type of goverment positions should be important, also adding institution-specific sections in the goverment tab might be a cool idea to make internal administation more complicated than simply levelling up your institutions with bureaucracy (for example once you pass any school law you open up a new section in the goverment tab where you can select your minister of education,choose what level of propaganda you want in school,try to unify your regional languages into one big state language and so on)same things can be done with other institutions but i think they really need an expansion in general
 
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I just want to say that the game looks to be in a very good state and I'm thankful you didn't announce any specific big features thus allowing me to finally play it instead of waiting for cool things.
 
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I think Internal politics is the one that needs the most expansion since it's the core focus of the game alongside economy,so adding Cabinets and other type of goverment positions should be important, also adding institution-specific sections in the goverment tab might be a cool idea to make internal administation more complicated than simply levelling up your institutions with bureaucracy (for example once you pass any school law you open up a new section in the goverment tab where you can select your minister of education,choose what level of propaganda you want in school,try to unify your regional languages into one big state language and so on)same things can be done with other institutions but i think they really need an expansion in general
If there's an update to internal politics I hope it something that puts the spotlight on the population instead of creating yet another level of abstraction. If I'm having a problem with the game right now it's how passive and disconnected the population itself feels. It affects IGs, yes, but you mostly worry about poor strata SoL and number of potential workers in every state and that's about it. People instantly fill any roles you need and in politics you percieve them through IGs, and more rarely through seccessionists. I wish something would make me care about my population structure more.
 
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Find a better solution for the ways ideologies appear, attract followers and create support for reforms than the current RNG-heavy leader ideology system.

Considering how strongly this implies an entry into the gameplay design area that BPM (Better Politics Mod) is working with, I wonder if it'll be possible to have at least some of us from BPM dev team share or discuss the designs in that area with the Vic3 development team (or some people from the team).

We've implemented the ideological IGs a long time ago as a compromise on account of not being able to implement in-engine changes; we'd have preferred to implement ideologies as a separate layer, and the implication in that plan is to do that at least to some degree. With the experience around designing changes to Vic3's political systems, I think we would be able to provide some qualified feedback (or at the very least prevent ourselves from implementing features that will become obsolete in an upcoming patch)
 
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  • Allowing peace deals to be negotiated during a Diplomatic Play instead of only having the option to give in

Could this potentially be a part of a greater expansion of "geopolitical" diplomacy between great powers? While the rework of subject interactions and subjugation in 1.7 is great, there is a lot that can be improved here. I think that the feeling of a stable equilibrium and long enduring peace in Europe during the first part of the game, "concert of europe" is missing from the game, as there are, as you pointed out, too many early wars between great powers in Europe.
A system that would, in my opinion, work well would be some kind of "great power conference", that would allow negotiating more complicated peace deals and other multilateral treaties. HPM mod in vicky 2 did this using long event chains, implementing the berlin conference and late-game peace deals with "disband empire" casus bellis enforced. Having such a system would benefit both gameplay and historical immersion, as we could create our own berlin conferences and versailles treaties.
 
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Removing them is not the solution. Ports were/are a scarce resource for trade. That's why russia had that warm waters goal all throughout the century.
examples that are impossible under the current system:
  1. Under the PLA, London's annual trade had grown to 60 million tons (38% of UK trade) by 1939
  2. On the eve of the First World War Le Havre was the primary European port for coffee,[19] it imported some 250,000 tonnes of cotton and 100,000 tons of oil.
  3. Hamburg experienced its fastest growth during the second half of the 19th century, when its population more than quadrupled to 800,000 as the growth of the city's Atlantic trade helped make it Europe's third-largest port
also, look at the biggest ports of the world today and how big some individual ports are massive and extremely important to trade
largest-ports-map-scaled-e1640695263640.jpeg


also the shiplane flow shows that few ports control the world trade
figure1a-660x379.gif
 
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I hope you guy also take a look at trade, how it currently only allows for a tiny fraction of the volume it should be. More details here.
 
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