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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #17 - Migration

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Hello and welcome to yet another Victoria 3 dev diary. Today’s topic is Migration (meaning the movement of Pops between states), what role it plays in Victoria 3, and how it functions mechanically. There are two types of Migration in Victoria 3: Intra-Market Migration and Mass Migration, and we’ll be explaining both of these starting with Intra-Market Migration.

Intra-Market Migration is the movement of Pops between two States that are part of the same Market. Barring certain exceptions (such as slaves not being able to migrate, as covered in the previous dev diary), Pops are generally always able to move between States in the Market, though the number of individuals that are able to change their homes on a weekly basis varies based on factors such as the local Infrastructure and Market Access in the two States.

Which Pops migrate from and to what States depends on the Migration Attraction of each State. Migration Attraction is a value that is based on the average Standard of Living in the state, and modified by various factors such as over/underpopulation, unemployment/available jobs and so on. It is possible for a country to directly encourage Migration to a specific state through the ‘Greener Grass Campaign’ Decree, at the cost of some Authority. In general, Pops will move from States with a low standard of living and a lack of employment opportunities to states with a high standard of living and jobs to offer. States with a low population compared to the amount of available land are especially attractive to economic immigrants.

Kansas, already an attractive state for American settlers due to its sparse population, has been further prioritized for migration through the use of a Greener Grass Campaign decree
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Discrimination, too, plays a role in migration. Pops that are being discriminated against in a particular State, and have the opportunity to migrate to another State in that market where they would not be discriminated against (perhaps because of multiple countries sharing the same Market, and one of those countries having more liberal citizenship or religious laws) will take that opportunity in greater numbers, provided of course that there is an underlying economic reason for them to want to move there in the first place. After all, while enjoying voting rights is certainly nice, putting food on the table is higher on the agenda for most Pops.

Discrimination can also have the opposite effect: Pops that are already enjoying full citizen rights are generally going to need to be in pretty dire economic straits to consider moving somewhere where those rights are going to be taken away, and in the case of a Pop that is going to be discriminated against no matter where they go in the Market, they tend to stick to their cultural Homelands.

French colonial settlement policies means that their colony of Algiers receives a steady trickle of immigrants from mainland France every week
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So, what then of Mass Migration? Mass Migration is a mechanic introduced to try and model the migration of large amounts of people to places such as the US, Brazil and Australia in the 19th century. Mass Migration can happen when a particular culture experiences Turmoil, which is a product of having a large number of radicalized pops. A culture that has enough Turmoil to meet the threshold has a chance to create a Migration Target somewhere in the world, which is a flag set on a particular State that attracts huge numbers of migrants from that culture over the course of a limited timespan to that State and any States neighboring it.
Migration Targets are more likely to be created if the Pops in the culture have a low Standard of Living and high Literacy, and particularly likely to be created if there is widespread starvation among the Pops of that culture.

The selection of States for Migration Targets is based on a number of factors, including the state’s Migration Attraction, whether or not the culture is legally discriminated against in the country, and if there is a logical ‘path’ that Pops of the migrating culture would be able to follow from their Homelands to the target (such as trade routes). There is no inherent advantage in certain country ‘tags’ for who gets migrants - the US tends to get migrations because of availability of jobs and land combined with liberal citizenship laws, not because they have a built-in migration attraction bonus.

Fed up with economic hardship and political oppression in their homelands, a large group of Polish people have decided to try their luck at a new life in France
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There is one more aspect of migration that we’re only going to briefly touch on: Migration Policy. This is a group of Laws which lets you set the stance of your country on migration. For example, whether you want to promote the movement of people from your core lands to your colonies, attract skilled workers from other countries for your manufacturing economy, or even just minimize all migration (external and internal) as a way of maintaining your iron grip over the population. The reason we won’t be going into this today is because it’s currently in the process of being redesigned to this end (from a previous, much simpler set of laws). We’ll try to return to it at a later time!

With that said, we’ve reached the end of this dev diary, and in fact, the end of the current string of politics dev diaries, as next we’ll be changing our focus from inwards to outwards and talking about Diplomacy, on the topic of Prestige and Rank!
 
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If there's no inter-market migration outside of migration waves triggered by Turmoil, how will scenarios like Japanese migration to Hawaii or Chinese and Indian contract workers be handled? Since China isn't in the American market, it's not like the historical route of Chinese workers building the Transcontinental Railroad would be possible. Maybe there could be a system in place allowing countries to negotiate treaties allowing for economic migration, or even contract workers, mechanically similar to how slave imports work- except these workers would be paid a wage and generally return to their country of origin after their contract is up. It's a compromise between unrestricted trickle immigration and there being no inter-market immigration outside of immigration waves, and would also be a conscious choice made by the player with obvious consequences.
The game has to represent these as they're major aspects of this era for many countries.
V2 just didn't include chinese emigration to NZ, Austalia, Canada and US, at all.
For Indian labour forced migrations and blackbirding across the Empire, the game could just use slave import except for labourers/farmers as UK would have slavery set to illegal at the this point in the game.
Chinese and Indian communities in these countries are major parts of their history that can't be left out. It's not irrelevant to the player or simulation but fundamental.

Similary to make it all of nothing, to ignore the white only immigration laws or even specifically anti-chinese laws is just to make it not simulating the period, but simulating the whitewashed fantasy that upholds colonialism as 'good actually' and ignore the historical conditions that lead both to history and in game would lead to alot of emergent game-play.

V2 went this road and it created monocultural colonies by 1890 and no representation let alone simulation of historical conditions.
 
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If there are enough wealthy Pops to markedly increase the average, then the immigrant will be hearing about the glorious country overseas where the streets are paved with gold, scrape together enough to embark to this promised land, but perhaps find themselves stuck due to poor social mobility once they get there. Sucks for them, but not unrealistic!
Would it be possible for events to make the SoL appear higher than it actually is for the purpose of migration calculations? E.g. a gold rush covered extensively by media, where gold deposits then turn out to be rather limited?
Having said that, it's well worth noting that our decision to make Primary Culture(s) static to the country tag is very intentional. In addition to being set in the revolutionary era, Victoria 3 is also set in the era of nationalism and the notion that culture = country, "natural" cultural homelands, pan-national sentiments, and so on are important themes. So in Victoria 3, culture and country are intrinsically connected as it would be nonsensical in this era for a nation-state to change its primary cultures while still retaining its fundamental national identity.
I find this description very fitting for that age. Can we expect a future DD on country formation and pan-nationalism?

Regarding mass migrations: In German territories some organizations were active during that era with the primary purpose of moving people to specific places. Examples can be found under https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_colonial_projects_before_1871#German_Confederation_(1806-1871). The numbers were often in the hundreds or low thousands. The motivations to do so were mostly economically or to compensate for the lack of a national colonial empire. Maybe there could be an additional event for (smaller) mass migrations like that? I would find that an interesting mixin for flavour, albeit not of great importance.
Conditions might be like:
  • the source country has no own colonies
  • AND the people in the source country feel entitled to have colonies, because:
    • the rich peolpe living in the source country are on average richer than those in the potential target country
    • OR / AND the source country is technologically superior to the potential target country
  • AND high value / exotic commodities can be produces in the potential target country
 
Who said culture acceptance worked like that? why would it work like that?
From what I know it would depend on a countries laws
isnt it there in Vic2? ... basically in there, you needed 1% accepted culture bureaucrats pop to state a colonial province. IIRC, cultures can be added from core states as accepted.
So UK can't core Bombay as it would need to move a lot of English bureaucrats there to make state.
The mechanic here seemed like it might be possible to do this in the slightly different manner I wrote about
 
If there's no inter-market migration outside of migration waves triggered by Turmoil, how will scenarios like Japanese migration to Hawaii or Chinese and Indian contract workers be handled? Since China isn't in the American market, it's not like the historical route of Chinese workers building the Transcontinental Railroad would be possible.
I think it’s important for that at least to be possible, too. There should be a lot of unrest in Qing China.
 
I know I sound like a broken record, but this emerges from the simulation!

Backlash isn't something created by the migration itself but rather emerging from the effects of that migration. If the people moving have a lot of Radicals, as they're prone to have since Mass Migration is triggered by high average Turmoil in the culture, this will impact the state they're moving to and by extension also the other Pops who live there. If the moving Pops become non-Discriminated in the process and perhaps are able to fill job opportunities that increase their Standard of Living, this Turmoil will dissipate quite rapidly and is unlikely to cause long-term problems. But if the immigrating Pops continue to be oppressed and can't improve their living conditions in their new country, this could become a problem for everybody.

Getting a little more granular about it, a major influx of potential labor with low expectations can also depress wages by making it unnecessary for profitable buildings to raise their wage rates to increase their attractiveness. This could aggravate stratification of the owner/shareholder classes and the working classes in the state, creating Radicals among the local population. But on the other hand, this additional labor might be exactly what is needed to expand production of local staple goods, making it cheaper to satisfy those needs. So while migration waves will always have a substantial effect on your economy and therefore politics, the precise effect it will have all comes down to the details and how you choose to deal with it.
Similar to @wisecat's question- could migrants bring their Interest Group along with them? e.g. European immigrants bringing socialism to USA.
 
Cheers for the DD Wizzington, and the extra info Iachek and KaiserJohan :) It's been a long time since I read anything relating to migration in the period, so I can't comment much on this other than that it sounds good and should hopefully provide interesting and plausible gameplay (formation of large cities, large population movements from things like the Irish famine, and so on), which is what we're after :).

As for a maritime-themed migration pic, that's quite easy, as one would hope :) It was a dangerous business, particularly in sail-driven ships (it wasn't until the 1880s that steam-powered vessels carried the majority of immigrants to Australia) - here's an engraving of the Loch Ard, which ran aground off south-eastern Australian on 1 Jun 1878, with only 2 survivors.


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The numbers were often in the hundreds or low thousands. The motivations to do so were mostly economically or to compensate for the lack of a national colonial empire. Maybe there could be an additional event for (smaller) mass migrations like that? I would find that an interesting mixin for flavour, albeit not of great importance.
I wonder if that could fit under the treaty port system in a way? A small enclave of your citizens in a foreign market to earn you some access to it, but without the same territorial claims and ambitions as a whole treaty port.
 
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First, you need an opportunity. You can't rely on there being a crisis that drives Mass Migration, or that it will target you if it does. If it doesn't, you'll need to bring the origin country into your national market somehow. You also need to offer a better standard of living than the origin, which shouldn't be terribly hard at first but it will grow progressively harder as you acquire immigrants.

Second, you need to be able to handle the influx of people. Remember that labor is subject to the laws of supply and demand in Vic3: if you import a lot of workers, both they and your existing workers will get paid less, and they will notice and be upset by it.
What? Like build a factory or 2?
This still leaves my examples open for exploits.
If we take the example of Jews to Palestine: Jews will be opresed in Europe and will want to migrate somewhere, what stops me as the Ottomans to industrialize in Palestine and give Jews equal rights in order to flood it with educated Jewish pops from Europe? I see no drawbacks here, and very little effort required, to get amazing benefits.
 
What? Like build a factory or 2?
This still leaves my examples open for exploits.
If we take the example of Jews to Palestine: Jews will be opresed in Europe and will want to migrate somewhere, what stops me as the Ottomans to industrialize in Palestine and give Jews equal rights in order to flood it with educated Jewish pops from Europe? I see no drawbacks here, and very little effort required, to get amazing benefits.
Kinda depends on what the cost of giving minorities rights is.

I would imagine that giving Jewish people (or any discriminated minority) rights should anger the cultural majority and all the other minorities there is. Particularly true if the Interest Groups in charge are very traditional and / or religious, which likely fits Ottomans too.
 
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What are the differences between domestic and foreign pops mechanically?
I would guess that once a pop migrates to you it is treated like any other pop in your country. Its rights and treatment depend on your discrimination laws. They haven't mentioned any kind of 'citizenship' type mechanic that is tied to pops.
 
Could it happen, that if many people from one culture emigrate into a place in my empire or colony and then because there are still a different culture and my policies shift that they want to become independent so i might have some for example polish dominated German Kenya and they want to become later an independent "Nova Polish State" in Africa?
 
Tying into migration, laws and discrimination, will it be possible to emulate certain immigration bans and restrictions of certain peoples? For example, Canada in 1885 passed the Chinese Immigration act, which charges most Chinese immigrants $50 per person to immigrate (with exemptions for some like merchants and those with special skills like doctors and scientists), and then latter outright banned most Chinese immigrants in 1923. Similarly, in 1908 the Continuous Journey Act was blatantly targeted at heavily restricting immigration from south Asia from a few years.
 
Similar to @wisecat's question- could migrants bring their Interest Group along with them? e.g. European immigrants bringing socialism to USA.
Interest groups are a think countries have that pops can belong too there's no "bringing" of interests groups anywhere as countries all have the same interest groups (with small variations). If the conditions are fairly similar in the new country you'd expect the pops to support the same interest group.
 
Interest groups are a think countries have that pops can belong too there's no "bringing" of interests groups anywhere as countries all have the same interest groups (with small variations). If the conditions are fairly similar in the new country you'd expect the pops to support the same interest group.
I think what Earnest meant was something like "if a bunch of Trade Unionist pops migrate, are they still Trade Unionists" and I assume the answer is yes, at least at first.
 
Is there such thing as "temporary migration" or tourism?

Is there a reverse pull of former emigrants if their country is liberated/restored?

Will certain pop types have an increased inclination to migrate, such as capitalist pops having a natural migration pull to markets/nations with the most disposable income; &/or, aristocrat pops having a need to evacuate a country fallen to a communist coup?

Maybe even something like an underground railroad of slaves escaping to a neighboring country with emancipation?
 
Discrimination Laws are a bit more granular than just "primary vs others" and together with the two discrimination vectors (culture + religion) can create quite a bit of detail. Being able to effectively target your "culture management" with a finer legal instrument than that is both unrealistic and not particularly meaningful in terms of what it adds to the gameplay.

Having said that, it's well worth noting that our decision to make Primary Culture(s) static to the country tag is very intentional. In addition to being set in the revolutionary era, Victoria 3 is also set in the era of nationalism and the notion that culture = country, "natural" cultural homelands, pan-national sentiments, and so on are important themes. So in Victoria 3, culture and country are intrinsically connected as it would be nonsensical in this era for a nation-state to change its primary cultures while still retaining its fundamental national identity.
So, to use the example of Argentina that someone advanced: say that a mass Italian migration results in a majority of Italians living in (some states of) Argentina.

Assuming that Argentina's primary culture is Spanish, and given that no "easy" (i.e., through laws) way to add primary cultures is possible, will disgruntled Italians form separatist movements to secede the Italian-majority states?
 
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So, to use the example of Argentina that someone advanced: say that a mass Italian migration results in a majority of Italians living in (some states of) Argentina.

Assuming that Argentina's primary culture is Spanish, and given that no "easy" (i.e., through laws) way to add primary cultures is possible, will disgruntled Italians form separatist movements to secede the Italian-majority states?
I suspect discriminated pops not in their homelands will advocate for the lifting of discrimination, not independence.
 
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