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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #28 - Flags

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Hi folks, welcome to another dev diary, and get hyped for what I know you're longing for: flags. I'm Ofaloaf, one of the designers on the game, and somehow they let me write a dev diary. Let's go!

Let's start at the beginning. What is a flag?

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A flag is a thing of beauty.
A flag is a decorative design on a bit of fabric, often used to communicate something, such as a message or identity, to the viewer. In Victoria 3, all flags are flags associated with countries. They're neat designs that serve as visual shorthand for a state, and they just look pretty too, most of the time.

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In the Victorian era, what counts as the flag of a country was a bit… vague, depending on who you were asking. Some countries, like the United States and France, very clearly had a single flag that served as the national flag that everybody knew them by, but others weren't so clear.

Look - here's some period examples of what people considered Russia's flag to be:

Selection from 'The maritime flags of all nations', 1832, as seen on Wikimedia Commons
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Selection from 'Pavillons et cocardes des principales puissances du globe d'apres des documens officials', 1850, as seen in the David Rumsey Map Collection.
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First thing that's noticeable is that it's not just one flag. The tricolor that is used as the Russian Federation's flag now was just one of several in use in the 19th century up through to the 1850s, as a merchant flag or civil ensign used to identify civilian ships in foreign ports. The Romanov dynasty's emblem is also used as a Russian flag, and then there's two naval jacks - the flags with the blue saltires or diagonal crosses stretching across them- which are also widely recognized. Eventually, the Russian government started trying to consolidate everything and issued a decree on June 23rd, 1858, proclaiming a single "state flag", a black-gold-white tricolor. In 1883, the white-blue-red "merchant" flag was officially accepted as a national flag to be used on special occasions, and in 1896 it wholly replaced the black-gold-white tricolor as Russia's state flag.

Man, ain't that a doozy of flags to pick from! How are we supposed to pick which one to use in Victoria 3? Well, good news there - we can use more than one flag! We got dynamic flags triggered by script!

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Any trigger which is valid for a country, like checking if a specific state is owned by the player or if a war is happening, can be used to trigger a different flag in the game. We've used that to spice up flag varieties in different situations - for example, a united Scandinavian monarchy has a different flag depending on whether the Danes are in charge or not:

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Spicy! And that's on top of just using the usual checks like governments, the number of states in a country, and so forth - right, yes, you probably want to see the stars in the American flag, don't you? I know I do. They do change based on the number of states in the Union.

I can taste the freedom.
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There's even some unique flags for when one country becomes the puppet of another. In some cases, a generic "oh no I am a puppet now" design is used for the puppeted country's flag with the "master" country's flag inserted as a canton in the upper-left corner of the puppeted country's flag, while in other cases a wholly unique flag is made for a particular combination of puppeteer and puppet.

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There's also a sort of fallback system, to provide flags for every polity even if we can't really settle on one particular design, or if they're feisty dynamic rebels, or what-have-you. Flags can be randomly generated, with particular triggers set so some flag elements only appear if a tag is of a particular culture, religion, or ideology, among other things.

randomflags.png

And, for the modders out there, it shouldn't be difficult for you folks to put together more flags if you want (and of course you want to make more flags, right?) - we use a system similar to the one Crusader King 3 uses for its coats of arms. France's default flag is a simple example of how the system works:

Code:
FRA = {
    pattern = "pattern_solid.tga"
    color1 = "blue"

    colored_emblem = {
        texture = "ce_tricolor_vertical.dds"
        color1 = "white"
        color2 = "red"
    }
}

All that's going on there is that a plain blue field is set as the background, and then a single graphical element with the central third and right third of the tricolor as colorable sections is slapped on top, with white and red respectively added in there to make a nice and tidy blue-white-red tricolore. Magnifique!

And to plug that bad boy into the game, all you need is a little scripting in another file that goes a little something like this:

Code:
FRA = { # France
    flag_definition = {
        coa = FRA
        subject_canton = FRA
        allow_overlord_canton = yes
        coa_with_overlord_canton = FRA_subject        
        priority = 1
    }
    flag_definition = {
        coa = FRA
        subject_canton = FRA
        allow_overlord_canton = yes        
        overlord_canton_scale = { 0.337 0.337 }            
        priority = 10
        trigger = { 
            coa_def_republic_flag_trigger = yes
        }
    }
    [And so forth. Find more flags by playing the game!]    
}

You can create as many flag definitions as you like, and you can plug the same flag design into multiple definitions or make a unique one for every definition if you want to go insane scripting it all up. Triggers are straightforward to plug in (and you can script generic triggers if you don't want to write the same combination of checks over and over again). If you want to mod flags, there's a delightful amount of flexibility with this system.

So there you have it! We got flags. We got lots of flags! We got randomized combinations of flags that go on for days! You could script more flags if you really want to poke at the game's innards! Flags.

Now, as we march towards the Holiday season, the dev diaries are taking a bit of a break. We will be back in January with a brand new topic in our first dev diary for 2022. Happy Holidays and a Happy New Year!
 
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We've approached the idea that the Great Britain tag is fundamentally the union between Scotland and England (both of which exist as separate tags), and so Scottish elements will not leave the flag.
By that logic though, if one or the other were to break away, shouldn't Great Britain then switch to England/Scotland depending on the circumstances of the split? That is, Scotland becomes independent, rump GB tag becomes England?
 
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By that logic though, if one or the other were to break away, shouldn't Great Britain then switch to England/Scotland depending on the circumstances of the split? That is, Scotland becomes independent, rump GB tag becomes England?
Maybe should be the best to get England in DB...

Also not sure if all monarchies should have special flags for Absolutist/Liberal, places like UK would not change, others like Spain or France would do (even if would say France should only do when Bourbons are in charge, would be odd to see Napoleon III going absolutist and getting the lilies). And can't think of those special that went for a banner flag...
 
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In the hypothetical situation that Australia becomes an independent republic, either through their own actions or by a certain US player deciding to finish the American Revolution, what do you think the flag should be?

The Eureka flag (the flag of a bunch of people that had a mini-rebellion at Eureka in the Vicky time period) is quite popular these days, but flags aren't my thing, and the Australian republican movement wouldn't have been very strong back then so I'm not aware of another alternative - but I'm not hugely into flags (and the flags I'm most into, which I'm sure will come as no surprise, are naval/mercantile ensigns and maritime signalling flags :) ).

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Note: the above is based on a quick web translator, and will almost definitely use modern conventions (it looks like it's using current NATO codes - and straight letters, no codebook malarkey). The flags in use during the Vicky period would have been similar, but the systems were less refined, and often had less flags (not necessarily one for every letter of the alphabet, instead using combinations of flags and a codebook). I'm not quite crazy enough to dig up a period-apropriate codebook and post something up :p
 
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We've approached the idea that the Great Britain tag is fundamentally the union between Scotland and England (both of which exist as separate tags), and so Scottish elements will not leave the flag.
What if England secceedes from the UK?
 
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It's not illegal in Germany anymore, but in some other European countries.
Is that so? I stand corrected then. I thought for HoI 4 the censored version was exclusively German because the law against it needs to be super specific and strictly enforced.
I know my country also technically includes nazi imagery under hate speech laws, but I didn't have Shadow Hitler in HoI.
 
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So you are telling me the USA can have up to 100 stars, but my tax code doesn't have more than 5 states per taxation method?
 
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Having different Italian Flags depending on the nation which formed Italy, instead the CoA of Savoy ... that would be glorious!
 
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Having different Italian Flags depending on the nation which formed Italy, instead the CoA of Savoy ... that would be glorious!
Not that there are many options. Parma-Lucca & Two Sicilies are Bourbon, Tuscany, Modena, Lombardy-Venetia ara Habsburg, so with 2 extra flags would do it...
 
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Is that so? I stand corrected then. I thought for HoI 4 the censored version was exclusively German because the law against it needs to be super specific and strictly enforced.
I know my country also technically includes nazi imagery under hate speech laws, but I didn't have Shadow Hitler in HoI.
It's not illegal in Germany anymore, but in some other European countries.
Correction: It's not AUTOMATICALLY illegal in Germany anymore. It's now a case by case decision similar to movies or comics. If Paradox used nazi symbols for a facist Germany it's a bit unclear how the USK (the relevant agency in Germany) would rate this, but I would bet my money on "still illegal". In any way it's not worth the trouble Paradox would have to go through.
Also this is purely hypothetical since Paradox has often enough made it clear that certain symbols are not making it into their games.
 
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If Paradox used nazi symbols for a facist Germany it's a bit unclear how the USK (the relevant agency in Germany) would rate this, but I would bet my money on "still illegal".
I'm betting the sticking point is "you can use those symbols while playing fascist Germany".

If fascist Germany was only present as an antagonist I'd guess it might be okay.
 
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Very good, thanks for the DD.
 
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We've approached the idea that the Great Britain tag is fundamentally the union between Scotland and England (both of which exist as separate tags), and so Scottish elements will not leave the flag.

However if Britain no longer holds onto any Irish states or subjects then they will remove the St Patrick saltire, or if they are an absolute monarchy using the royal banner, they will drop the Irish harp.
Let me rephrase to see if I understood correctly:
  • Scotland secedes from Great Britain: Great Britain ceases to exist and the resulting tags are England and Scotland, with the English flag retaining Irish elements such as their saltire if they are still in control of them
  • Ireland secedes from Great Britain: remains Great Britain, flag loses Irish saltire
Is that correct? Or are you saying that Great Britain can continue to exist if Scotland secedes if they control Irish territories?

Also is there a way to elevate Wales to its rightful place on the Union Jack? /j

What if England secceedes from the UK?
If my read above is correct, the same as when Scotland secedes (GB ceases to exist and we get England and Scotland). What is more interesting is who would inherit Ireland and every other dependency.
 
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Still no answer on the topic of the Swedish and Norwegian sildesalaten flags? It was a huge issue at the time.
 
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Correction: It's not AUTOMATICALLY illegal in Germany anymore. It's now a case by case decision similar to movies or comics. If Paradox used nazi symbols for a facist Germany it's a bit unclear how the USK (the relevant agency in Germany) would rate this, but I would bet my money on "still illegal". In any way it's not worth the trouble Paradox would have to go through.
Also this is purely hypothetical since Paradox has often enough made it clear that certain symbols are not making it into their games.
This is purely hypocritical. Why are certain symbols making it and other certain symbols don't? Huh? Who desides that? For example, in my country, Ukraine, both nazi AND soviet symbols are banned, but for some reason this game will still include them, choosing what, not to potentially violate German law but potantially violating Ukrainian law? Because what, Germany is more important than Ukraine? As I said, pure hypocrisy.
 
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To me, the England-Scotland answer is pretty clear. Any country tag Great Britain will combine the two, so if one country should secede, rump-GB would retain the union flag, until and unless it should become a tag other than GB.
 
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We've seen the swedish one in a few screenshots now iirc
Yes, but not with the sildesalat, have we? It came mod century. Both the Norwegian one and the Swedish one.
 
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