• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #58 - Interest Revisions

16_9.jpg

Hello and welcome to yet another Victoria 3 development diary. Today is going to be a fairly brief dev diary discussing some design changes in diplomacy that happened as a result of internal playtesting and feedback, specifically to the mechanics of Interests and their significance in the game.

Interests, as you may recall from Dev Diary #19, are essentially a country having a diplomatic presence in a particular Strategic Region, either as a result of owning territory there, having a subject that owns territory there, or through a Declared Interest. Back then, Interests merely limited where you start Diplomatic Plays and Establish Colonies, and acted as a guide for the AI in terms of which countries it needed to care about

With so many Great Powers maintaining Interests there, Europe is a perilous place to start a Diplomatic Play in
DD58_1.jpg

So, what has changed between then and now? Well, basically, playtesting revealed two principal issues with Interests in the game. The first was that they simply didn’t feel significant enough, because they only tied directly into colonization and diplomatic plays. The second was that the number of declared Interests a country had available to them was based solely on rank, which meant that Austria with its miniscule navy was able to maintain almost as global a presence as the British with their, well, definitely not so miniscule navy.

To solve the first problem, we decided to do a little experiment - what if instead of just limiting colonization and diplomatic plays, Interests were required for all forms of diplomacy, up to and including trade? This was an idea we’d kicked around previously, but the concern was that it’d simply be too limiting, particularly where trade was concerned, because as mentioned, the only way to get more Interests was to increase your country rank, and once you were a Great Power, well that was it. No more trade partners, at least not of your own choosing.

The solution to the second problem, then, turned out to also be the key to the first one: tying the navy directly into declared Interests. The number of declared Interests from rank were reduced, and instead, Naval Bases now produce declared Interests, with one declared Interest provided per 10 flotillas that a country has. In other words, while Austria can now maintain a handful of declared Interests around Europe to look out for its national interests (pun intended), the size of Britain’s fleet allows it to poke its nose into the business of just about any corner of the world that it wants to.

Spain’s navy may not be what it once was, but it’s still large enough to allow the Spanish a greater diplomatic reach than their Major Power rank would otherwise allow
DD58_2.jpg

With this change made, our experiment truly came together, and allowed us to greatly expand the scope of the Interest mechanic. Instead of just being a requirement for taking over land, Interests now signify a formal diplomatic presence in a region without which you simply do not have the ability to interact with that region at all - no French diplomats in Southeast Asia means no French diplomacy in Southeast Asia.

In no particular order, here are all the mechanics that now tie into Interests:
  • Diplomatic Plays & Colonization: As before, a country must have an Interest in a region to start a Diplomatic Play or begin colonizing there.
  • Diplomatic Actions: To conduct diplomacy with a country, you must now have at least one overlapping Interest - meaning they must have an Interest in any strategic region where you also have an Interest. For example, Texas can conduct diplomacy with Britain if Britain maintains an Interest in the Dixie Region, even if Texas has no Interests outside the Dixie region.
  • Trade: To establish a trade route between two markets, one of the two market owners has to have an Interest in any region where the other market is present. For example, if the USA maintains an Interest in La Plata where the Argentine market is present, then Argentina and the USA can trade with each other, even if Argentina doesn’t have an Interest anywhere in North America.
  • Notifications: You will only be informed about diplomatic going-ons between countries with which you have an overlapping Interest, and in states where you have an Interest in the region.

As much as the Sikh Empire might desire European allies against Britain, their landlocked position limits their options - without a coast they will have to wait for one of those powers to take an interest in North India
DD58_3.jpg

Ultimately, the result of these changes were threefold: It made Interests a far more central mechanic to the game, it increased the need for maintaining a large fleet-in-being for empires with global ambitions, and it increased immersion by having who you could and could not deal with simply make more sense. An isolated Bhutan in the Himalayas now truly feels isolated, rather than inexplicably being able to send embassies to Paraguay at a whim.

That’s it for today! I’ll be back next week with another Dev Diary on a hotly anticipated topic: The AI of Victoria 3.
 
  • 257Like
  • 88Love
  • 29
  • 22
  • 5
Reactions:
Because you are declaring a diplomatic interest in a region. Practically by definition that means the goings-on in the region are relevant to you.
Interests are what's relevant to the nation I'm playing as. A whole lot more is relevant to me, the player. This change seems intended to merge the two a bit, but I disagree, this is a thing best left for message settings, not a game mechanic.
 
  • 8
  • 1Like
  • 1
Reactions:
Interests are what's relevant to the nation I'm playing as. A whole lot more is relevant to me, the player. This change seems intended to merge the two a bit, but I disagree, this is a thing best left for message settings, not a game mechanic.
message setting gang rise up
 
  • 12Like
Reactions:
If we consider that the number of interests grow the more time progresses (as the size of the navies increases) and thus the amount of possible conflicts between great powers (after all, there are so many interests but a constant amount of space), does this system enable Great Wars late game while making them unlikely in the early game? If so, that would be "interest"ing. Or "great".

Furthermore, if another power starts a diplomatic play in a region that I have an interest in, am I punished if I don't site with anyone? Discontent from interest groups seems pretty likely. That would further contribute to a naturally occuring powder keg.
 
  • 2
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Oooo, I like this. I wish EU4 used similar approach.
 
  • 1
Reactions:
Judging from CK3, the new notification system sounds desirable, and I am too focused to notice any notification anyway. But I still miss message settings. Vicky 3 devs did lots of cool stunts, changing pie charts, changing warfare, better tutorial, continuing good stuff from other games like nested tooltips and 3D models. There are stuff to be brought back from older games that would win player's hearts and the biggest one is message settings.
 
  • 5
Reactions:
question as it seems entirely relevant to this subject,will it be the number of theoretical flotillas supported ,or the Active number? would a long naval war of attrition be able to say remove Great Britains ability to have interests over seas if their navy isn't there anymore?
 
I'm hoping the new notification settings are the default notifications like how in EU4 it defaults to informing you of "important countries". I hope there's a setting so you get pop-ups about everything.
 
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:
question as it seems entirely relevant to this subject,will it be the number of theoretical flotillas supported ,or the Active number? would a long naval war of attrition be able to say remove Great Britains ability to have interests over seas if their navy isn't there anymore?
You can see in the naval base building, the building itself grants an interest. It's possible that floatillas also grant interest so it may have a partial affect if you sink a navy but won't completely destroy their interests.
 
I would have rather preferred that there would be a way to establish or maintain trade with countries outside of the interest for an administrative cost.

Otherwise, britain can set interest with you, start to trade, then move the interest elsewhere.
Either the trade route stays which is a cheat, or it breaks and you as the small country are getting screwed for no reason.
 
  • 1Like
Reactions:
Either the trade route stays which is a cheat, or it breaks and you as the small country are getting screwed for no reason.
Not for no reason! They are getting screwed for being small! :cool:
 
  • 3Haha
  • 2
  • 1
Reactions:
My best guess is that they changed the borders of the strategic regions, and now the Sikh Empire is fully contained in North India. Limiting the number of countries split over multiple strategic regions also aligns with what they're going for here with the new interest system (making isolated countries feel isolated).

Also, I feel like changing the system to only giving you an interest in your capital state would certainly have merited a mention in the DD (and it'd be a really weird change).
Well here is the screenshot for the (recent) Japan version where I thought they stated the interest changes were present
1663275592641.png
You can see Sikh's boarder in Persia, Himalayas, and North India.

@Nitan17 the only one missing was
3. Their Overlord
 
  • 1
Reactions:
This is a really clever system, I like it!

Except for one thing, the dependency of trade partners on the navy strength. For example, prior to 1894 Germany (and Norway) had a very weak navy, but already traded globally. See e.g. this table from 1892 from here which shows the distribution of merchant shipping tonnage
Länder
1892​
Dampfer-
tonnage​
Steamer tonnage​
Global share​
Sailing ship tonnage​
Global share​
Overall tonnage​
Großbritannien u. Irland
5 370,0​
60,5​
3 563,5​
34,9​
8 933,5​
Deutschland
762,2​
8,6​
654,1​
6,4​
1 416,3​
Vereinigte Staaten von Nordamerika[1]
417,1​
4,7​
1 519,1​
14,9​
1 936,2​
Norwegen
221,2​
2,5​
1 393,5​
13,6​
1 614,7​
Frankreich
500,5​
5,6​
286,1​
2,8​
786,6​
Italien
199,2​
2,2​
587,0​
5,7​
786,2​
Rußland
140,0​
1,6​
477,8​
4,4​
587,8​
Spanien
291,3​
3,3​
243,0​
2,4​
534,3​
Schweden
124,2​
1,4​
336,9​
3,3​
461,1​
Japan
75,5​
0,9​
25,6​
0,3​
101,1​
Gesamte Handelsflotten der Welt
8 872,4​
100,0​
10 217,9​
100,0​
19 090,3​
 
  • 6Like
  • 1
Reactions:
I would have rather preferred that there would be a way to establish or maintain trade with countries outside of the interest for an administrative cost.

Otherwise, britain can set interest with you, start to trade, then move the interest elsewhere.
Either the trade route stays which is a cheat, or it breaks and you as the small country are getting screwed for no reason.
The trade route canceling if another country moves their interest elsewhere is not a bad thing. That is a calculated risk you are choosing to take by making a route with a country that has an interest in you and not one you have an interest in. If you want to make 100% sure you have secured your trade routes, then you should plan better and declare an interest in the country you want to trade with. Does that mean making either some tough or risky decisions as a minor country? Sure. But that's just part of the challenge of playing a minor country. It should not be easy to get everything you want.
 
  • 6
Reactions:
This is a really clever system, I like it!

Except for one thing, the dependency of trade partners on the navy strength. For example, prior to 1894 Germany (and Norway) had a very weak navy, but already traded globally.
More interests only means more potential trading partners, which is not exactly equivalent to more tonnage. And it also doesn't need to be you who is placing the interest on others, they can do it to you too. I would imagine many would love to have access to the Zollverein. So they would just place their interest on you themselves. As it stands I can easily see Germany replicate that list with the current system

Also do not forget physical presence alone gives you interest in that region, and great powers gets free interests too (which Germany most likely will be).


EDIT:

1663278429980.png

Just from the screenshot, in this game Germany can trade with all these nations without spending a single interest herself. Really all she need to do is to spend a single interest each in Italy plus US and your list can be easily achieved.
 
Last edited:
  • 2Like
  • 1
  • 1
Reactions:
I would have rather preferred that there would be a way to establish or maintain trade with countries outside of the interest for an administrative cost.

Otherwise, britain can set interest with you, start to trade, then move the interest elsewhere.
Either the trade route stays which is a cheat, or it breaks and you as the small country are getting screwed for no reason.
I mean if you are playing a minor nation in India and Britain doesn't care about you, it should be very hard to import goods from England, because if they don't care about India for some reason, why would they even trade with you.

That said, unless the EIC collapses or gains independence somehow, the british market shouldn't be hard for people in the area to trade with since they are part of the British market. (or the Dutch indies for the dutch market).
 
  • 4
Reactions:
Love it. I love this change.

I especially love how it makes it makes targeting an enemies fleet 'politics by other means'. Want to limit the UK's global reach? Sink their navy and watch them unable to expand their empire.
 
  • 1
  • 1Like
Reactions:
I don't like this. One of the things I enjoy about Paradox games is watching the world develop beyond my immediate influence, and receiving notifications about things that I'm not involved in makes it much easier to do that.

In other words, message settings are an important part of grand strategy games, and getting rid of them was a mistake.
exactly, the message settings are/were very important
to me the messages were my personal newspaper
 
  • 4
  • 1Like
Reactions: