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Victoria 3 - Dev Diary #58 - Interest Revisions

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Hello and welcome to yet another Victoria 3 development diary. Today is going to be a fairly brief dev diary discussing some design changes in diplomacy that happened as a result of internal playtesting and feedback, specifically to the mechanics of Interests and their significance in the game.

Interests, as you may recall from Dev Diary #19, are essentially a country having a diplomatic presence in a particular Strategic Region, either as a result of owning territory there, having a subject that owns territory there, or through a Declared Interest. Back then, Interests merely limited where you start Diplomatic Plays and Establish Colonies, and acted as a guide for the AI in terms of which countries it needed to care about

With so many Great Powers maintaining Interests there, Europe is a perilous place to start a Diplomatic Play in
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So, what has changed between then and now? Well, basically, playtesting revealed two principal issues with Interests in the game. The first was that they simply didn’t feel significant enough, because they only tied directly into colonization and diplomatic plays. The second was that the number of declared Interests a country had available to them was based solely on rank, which meant that Austria with its miniscule navy was able to maintain almost as global a presence as the British with their, well, definitely not so miniscule navy.

To solve the first problem, we decided to do a little experiment - what if instead of just limiting colonization and diplomatic plays, Interests were required for all forms of diplomacy, up to and including trade? This was an idea we’d kicked around previously, but the concern was that it’d simply be too limiting, particularly where trade was concerned, because as mentioned, the only way to get more Interests was to increase your country rank, and once you were a Great Power, well that was it. No more trade partners, at least not of your own choosing.

The solution to the second problem, then, turned out to also be the key to the first one: tying the navy directly into declared Interests. The number of declared Interests from rank were reduced, and instead, Naval Bases now produce declared Interests, with one declared Interest provided per 10 flotillas that a country has. In other words, while Austria can now maintain a handful of declared Interests around Europe to look out for its national interests (pun intended), the size of Britain’s fleet allows it to poke its nose into the business of just about any corner of the world that it wants to.

Spain’s navy may not be what it once was, but it’s still large enough to allow the Spanish a greater diplomatic reach than their Major Power rank would otherwise allow
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With this change made, our experiment truly came together, and allowed us to greatly expand the scope of the Interest mechanic. Instead of just being a requirement for taking over land, Interests now signify a formal diplomatic presence in a region without which you simply do not have the ability to interact with that region at all - no French diplomats in Southeast Asia means no French diplomacy in Southeast Asia.

In no particular order, here are all the mechanics that now tie into Interests:
  • Diplomatic Plays & Colonization: As before, a country must have an Interest in a region to start a Diplomatic Play or begin colonizing there.
  • Diplomatic Actions: To conduct diplomacy with a country, you must now have at least one overlapping Interest - meaning they must have an Interest in any strategic region where you also have an Interest. For example, Texas can conduct diplomacy with Britain if Britain maintains an Interest in the Dixie Region, even if Texas has no Interests outside the Dixie region.
  • Trade: To establish a trade route between two markets, one of the two market owners has to have an Interest in any region where the other market is present. For example, if the USA maintains an Interest in La Plata where the Argentine market is present, then Argentina and the USA can trade with each other, even if Argentina doesn’t have an Interest anywhere in North America.
  • Notifications: You will only be informed about diplomatic going-ons between countries with which you have an overlapping Interest, and in states where you have an Interest in the region.

As much as the Sikh Empire might desire European allies against Britain, their landlocked position limits their options - without a coast they will have to wait for one of those powers to take an interest in North India
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Ultimately, the result of these changes were threefold: It made Interests a far more central mechanic to the game, it increased the need for maintaining a large fleet-in-being for empires with global ambitions, and it increased immersion by having who you could and could not deal with simply make more sense. An isolated Bhutan in the Himalayas now truly feels isolated, rather than inexplicably being able to send embassies to Paraguay at a whim.

That’s it for today! I’ll be back next week with another Dev Diary on a hotly anticipated topic: The AI of Victoria 3.
 
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message setting gang rise up

I think you've accidentally hit on the reason we don't have message settings in PDX games anymore despite the fact that they are the #1 request in CKIII, and HOI IV, and high up in Stellaris (but to be fair, not something people are clamoring as much for). Pretty sure Paradox has decided this is a coordinated effort across multiple games by a small minority they can safely ignore. Personally I believe it's an awful decision and this thread is yet another example of how many people who are active players on this forum really want them. But at this point I believe there simply isn't any evidence you can present to the current generation of Paradox devs to convince them that they are wrong. They believe that most players hate pop-ups and the best way to combat them is not to introduce the ability for anyone to customize their gameplay experience and get the pop-ups they want (or, heaven forbid, actually try to replace a "bad" system with something else that accomplishes the same information goals) but instead remove as many notifications from the game as possible and leave everyone stuck with whatever the devs feel is the important stuff that is left.

It has been pointed out repeatedly that you could have the system the devs believe is the best play experience as the default and allow people who don't like it to change it themselves, but we still haven't seen any hint of that occurring so I'm not holding my breath.

Prove me wrong @Wizzington and I'll buy Vicky II.
 
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Love it. I love this change.

I especially love how it makes it makes targeting an enemies fleet 'politics by other means'. Want to limit the UK's global reach? Sink their navy and watch them unable to expand their empire.

I don’t think that works. What gives power projection is the existence of naval bases themselves, not the navy. You can sink the navy but the bases are still there.
 
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In the previous dev diary you guys had said you'd be explaining DLCs more in light of a large increase in pricing. That was two weeks back but this dev-diary appears to have simply never mentioned them.
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I lack depth to judge this... guess it will depend on the number of interests you can have , and the frequency you will be allowed to shuffle them if the need arise.
 
Want to limit the UK's global reach? Sink their navy and watch them unable to expand their empire.
If I'm not mistaken, sinking their navy wouldn't affect their interest power, because interest power is tied to naval bases, not ships. So you would need to conquer their states with naval bases :(

If it works this way, I really think it needs to be changed. Because it ruins all this nice idea.
 
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If I'm not mistaken, sinking their navy wouldn't affect their interest power, because interest power is tied to naval bases, not ships. So you would need to conquer their states with naval bases :(
Unless flotilla has some really weird definition in the game, the dev diary says that the number of declared interests is tied directly to the actual navy size.

The solution to the second problem, then, turned out to also be the key to the first one: tying the navy directly into declared Interests. The number of declared Interests from rank were reduced, and instead, Naval Bases now produce declared Interests, with one declared Interest provided per 10 flotillas that a country has. In other words, while Austria can now maintain a handful of declared Interests around Europe to look out for its national interests (pun intended), the size of Britain’s fleet allows it to poke its nose into the business of just about any corner of the world that it wants to.
 
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They're not hiding any information from what I can tell. It's just notifications, and judging from earlier builds, limiting the amount of notifications to just the areas you're interested in is definitely preferable to ignoring the notifications because most of the time it's not relevant to you.
So they are putting it out of sight? That sounds like hiding it to me. And why can't they let players decide themselves what notifications they are interested in? My guess is that it wouldn't make the game accessible enough for modern Paradox...

Remembering from the dev diary, a Flotillia most of the time represent a capital ship and some escorts.

A few exeptions exists like monitors being a group of monitors, but in most cases, a capital ship and a few escorts.

edit

it was in the questions section of the navy dev diary. I remembered it becuse it was I who asked the question
Thanks, so then there is a real possibility that the game 'encourages' players to just spam the cheapest possible flotillas to get more declared interests. That makes it sound like a bad solution to me.
 
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I don't like this. One of the things I enjoy about Paradox games is watching the world develop beyond my immediate influence, and receiving notifications about things that I'm not involved in makes it much easier to do that.

In other words, message settings are an important part of grand strategy games, and getting rid of them was a mistake.
I honestly have the exact opposite problem. In games like CK3 for example, hearing about the Iberian struggle consistently despite... being in the steppes. Then again, in this game I feel that it shows how nations work in this time period. They don't pay attention to every nation in the world. They look at the points that are relevant to them. A nation in south east Asia only knows and pays attention to nations in Europe who have a presence in their region, not about the revolt that happened in a German or Italian minor. They would, however pay attention to whether or not a local minor that is 2 nations away was just eaten up by France or anyone really, because that is relevant to them.
 
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Will the type of ships in your navy have any impact on Interests? Could be useful to help simulate things like the Dreadnought race in the early 1900s.
 
I actually like this decision, at least as an option. I usually feel far too flooded with messages in games like Vicky 2 or EUIV to particularly care about any of them, or even read any of them. This will make it far more manageable, and is more self-selecting for what I care about. I do agree there should be an option for all-notifications though--there should always be options for things like this.
Wait we agree!? Hahaha
 
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Is there a Diplomatic Play or wargoal to limit a country's navy? Would tie in to this mechanic to then again limit the diplomatic influence that country has over seas.
 
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Doubling down even harder on this post, I LOVED being able to see nations do their big decisions and go through their unique events and that sort of thing. Even in the BIG Vicky 2 mods I loved to keep those settings on in spite of the massive pain that was seeing "Monthly Vassal Payment" garbage every single month. This is how I've genuinely learned about so much real history during moments I would never have learned about in school.

Please GOD, do not take away the ability to watch the world like th

Doubling down even harder on this post, I LOVED being able to see nations do their big decisions and go through their unique events and that sort of thing. Even in the BIG Vicky 2 mods I loved to keep those settings on in spite of the massive pain that was seeing "Monthly Vassal Payment" garbage every single month. This is how I've genuinely learned about so much real history during moments I would never have learned about in school.

Please GOD, do not take away the ability to watch the world like this, I BEG of you.
It is literally like eu4 works just that you can control it and still see the map, but I do think that events with significat importance are still relevant and should be notified (rather than just "Great Britain is trading with Mexico" when you play as Siam)
 
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  • Notifications: You will only be informed about diplomatic going-ons between countries with which you have an overlapping Interest, and in states where you have an Interest in the region.
This is my favorite change. All the recent games have way too many notifications getting spammed out, about 90% of which are totally irrelevant. "Someone I don't care about is arguing with someone else I don't know over a county I've never heard of before" sums up my CK3 notifications experience. Or two empires across the galaxy created a migration treaty (so what?).

I like the focus on interest regions because I'm mainly focused on the handful of neighbors I actually interact with and perhaps one or two power players I might have to deal with in the future, and this helps scope the notifications so they're relevant. The rest is just distracting noise that I wish I could shut off because it makes the game harder to play.
 
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I don't like this. One of the things I enjoy about Paradox games is watching the world develop beyond my immediate influence, and receiving notifications about things that I'm not involved in makes it much easier to do that.

In other words, message settings are an important part of grand strategy games, and getting rid of them was a mistake.
It does kind of add to the whole RP aspect of your diplomats in those regions to report on the developments in the area?
 
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I like that navies are given a greater importance, to my knowledge, beyond just fighting as that should reflect on the cultural perception on the value of a navy during the period.
 
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1. How many interests do you get at minimum, without navy and being a really low rank country?

2. Is it possible to cheese the system by simply having a small colony everywhere, thus not needing to declare interests?
1. There is no minimum - Insignificant Powers don't get to declare any interests if they don't have a navy large enough. You still get an Interest where you own land, though.
2. Small/incomplete colonies do not give you an Interest in the region.
 
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Love the idea of tying Interests to navy. Britannia rules the waves, of course.

My only issue with what's described is the notifications. I'd at least like the option to have notifications outside of Interests. If you play as the United States, you should probably be notified of the wars breaking out in Europe, even if you don't have the ability to interfere.
You do get notifications about countries that are relevant because of overlapping interests, to be clear. So US would get notified if say, a trading partner ended up at war.
 
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Do production method / quality of ships matter? or spamming low level ships will be the meta for more interest.
Right now it's just 1 per 10 but that might change before release.
 
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From the twitter teaser we see that we get declared interests from rank and now naval bases.
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Do we still get the implicit interests in locations that we or one of our subjects have land?
(Is Britain going to have interests everywhere between the implicit interests, rank based declared, and now navy based declared?)
You get 'natural' interests anywhere you or a subject owns a state that isn't a colony in progress.
 
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