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Greetings, fellow gamers! Today's Horse Lords dev diary is about Tributary states, Succession in Nomad realms and Dynamic Mercenaries... but let us start with Tributary states!

The Crusader Kings vassalage system has served us fairly well, but in our design discussions, we often return to the problem of "degree"; that is, what are the terms of the contract, exactly? How tight should the contract be in non-Feudal realms, etc. Various improvements have been suggested, such as a "vassalage strength" value (a bit similar to Crown Authority, but for each vassal.) However, most of these ideas stumble on their complexity and the required amount of micro-management. When we were talking about the Nomads of the steppes, though, we really needed a looser type of subordination than outright vassalage. That is why we decided to introduce the concept of Tributaries (which we originally conceived of as a Nomad-only power, but soon chose to make available to all rulers as long as you have the expansion.)

Crusader Kings II - Tributaries.jpg


In Horse Lords, there are two new Casus Bellis related to Tributaries; "Make Tributary" and "Free Tributary" (doing exactly what they sound like.) On the map, the names of Tributary states are no longer shown, though they retain their own colors in the Realms map mode. Tributaries pay a monthly tax to their suzerain and cannot refuse the suzerain's call to wars. However, the suzerain is also expected to protect their tributaries. Apart from this, tributaries are still autonomous. A tributary can only have one suzerain (though the suzerain can be a regular vassal of another ruler's.) The tributary status ends on the death of either ruler, and tributaries can declare wars to free themselves, of course...

Now, let us return to the steppes and talk a bit about their unique form of succession... In reality, this was a complex matter that could be represented in many different ways, but since we already have various elective forms of succession, we decided to make it a bit less direct and more distinct (and no, it is not the horrible Ultimogeniture.:)) In short, among Nomads, the most prestigious son or brother inherits. Minors can inherit Clan rule, but not the tribal Khaganate. Prestige, you say? But isn't that a bit boring? Yes, the player should get some control over the choice of heir. That's why we are introducing the concept of Dynamic Mercenaries.

Crusader Kings II - Make me Proud.jpg


What you do, as a Nomad ruler, is send out your most promising sons and brothers to prove their mettle in the wide world. They will then take some of your Manpower and appear as a Mercenary Band, available for hire by rulers in the general region. As they earn money, the size of their regiment will increase. There are various new events for them as they experience adventures in the court of their employer, on distant battlefields, etc. You will receive notifications about the more significant escapades, and if you happen to be their employer, you are also likely to get some fascinating interactions. In general, dynamic mercenaries tend to increase their skills and gain Prestige, but it is, of course, also a dangerous life... The idea is to foster a strong heir by letting them prove their worth and gain enough Prestige to succeed you.

Crusader Kings II - Dynamic Mercs.jpg


The system with dynamic mercenaries is currently locked to Nomads only, but it is very easy to mod and we are likely to expand on it in future expansions. That's all for now folks. Next week; the Silk Road and Raiding Adventurers!
 
So does this mean that the Mongol Yoke can be more properly represented, with instead of the Rus states being controlled by the Golden Horde they are all tributaries. Also can a ruler become a tributary voluntarily?
 
Shame about it being so solidly locked to Male-only, though.

I mean, what about people like Khutulun? I know she never actually took power in the end, but that was only due to the other rulers blocking it (so in-game an approval/prestige issue, rather than being solidly gender-locked. If she didn't have male relatives, or if things had gone diferently, she could have taken power.)
 
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Shouldn't the dynamic mercenaries be for Cathar women as well as men? Even if this is moddable, it should be standard in the vanilla game where Cathar women can be Marshals, Generals and most importantly heirs. If a horde converts to Catharism they will be restricted to a male succession without the ability to send out female heirs -- de facto because of the succession being based on prestige.

I hope this gets adjusted before release.

Mercenary pursuits and commanding armies for members of a sect that was very much against violence? Doesn't sound logical.
 
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What they could do is make it so that his band won't fight people of his culture, like how Holy Orders won't fight people of the same religion.

Which would be silly, as far as I've understood it the Altaic people were just as eager to fight each other as anyone else.
 
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I'm not sure how China could work in CK2. To my knowledge, it never had feudalism like Japan, Europe, and Muslim lands had. I could be mistaken, of course. My knowledge of Chinese history is far limited compared to that of Europe.
Not feudalism but imperial government like the Byzentine Empire. This may work. Also, if the Mongol take Northern China they may introduce the banner system.
 
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Playing adventurers is becoming more and more interesting. I tell you guys, with this DLC it's going to be real sweet to play landless characters, as long as you mod the possibility, for western realms as well, into it.
For landless adventurers in Europe. I wish to suggest making a courtier with a claim playable. It can be great.
 
Really like this Dynamic Mercenary idea hopefully, it will effect all mercenaries to a degree, like their company has Prestige which is based on wars and battles they have won or lost and that determines there size and cost, some companies will be permanent and some will be based around a single leader until he returns home although with the ability to become permanent if they want

I hope this will be expanded into groups other than Nomads, it makes me think of joining the Verangian Guard which is one of my favorite events in the whole game, just for all the things your son can come back from having done

Also maybe add something similar where you could send you sons off on the Crusade instead of going yourself, like giving your second son a chance to earn a kingdom of his own
 
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Another promising update, tributaries should offer lots of opportunities.

I was wondering, even though in the base game it won't be, could it be possible to mod the tributary state to be inheritable? Maybe with an on_death event for the tributary, reassigning the condition to his successor?

Agreed. The Roman Empire existed in a tributary relationship with the Hunnic Empire up to roughly the period of Charlemagne. When they paid, they were at peace. When they didn't pay, they received war. The tributary payments were split amongst the khans and formed a very essential glue to their relationships. At least up to the time of Khan Kardam of Bulgaria the expectation was that the ERE owed the horse-lords money.

--Khanwulf
 
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The Dynamic Mercenary System sounds sweet. Really looking forward to that, and the eventual modding for it to be available to everyone.
 
There were feudal titles in china during the tang and ming dynasties however they did not mean anything beyond the honor associated with them. Still, in china during the Tang dynasty after 800s, the military circles were ruled by hereditary commanders.
 
Greetings, fellow gamers! Today's Horse Lords dev diary is about Tributary states, Succession in Nomad realms and Dynamic Mercenaries... but let us start with Tributary states!

The Crusader Kings vassalage system has served us fairly well, but in our design discussions, we often return to the problem of "degree"; that is, what are the terms of the contract, exactly? How tight should the contract be in non-Feudal realms, etc. Various improvements have been suggested, such as a "vassalage strength" value (a bit similar to Crown Authority, but for each vassal.) However, most of these ideas stumble on their complexity and the required amount of micro-management. When we were talking about the Nomads of the steppes, though, we really needed a looser type of subordination than outright vassalage. That is why we decided to introduce the concept of Tributaries (which we originally conceived of as a Nomad-only power, but soon chose to make available to all rulers as long as you have the expansion.)

View attachment 130096

In Horse Lords, there are two new Casus Bellis related to Tributaries; "Make Tributary" and "Free Tributary" (doing exactly what they sound like.) On the map, the names of Tributary states are no longer shown, though they retain their own colors in the Realms map mode. Tributaries pay a monthly tax to their suzerain and cannot refuse the suzerain's call to wars. However, the suzerain is also expected to protect their tributaries. Apart from this, tributaries are still autonomous. A tributary can only have one suzerain (though the suzerain can be a regular vassal of another ruler's.) The tributary status ends on the death of either ruler, and tributaries can declare wars to free themselves, of course...

Now, let us return to the steppes and talk a bit about their unique form of succession... In reality, this was a complex matter that could be represented in many different ways, but since we already have various elective forms of succession, we decided to make it a bit less direct and more distinct (and no, it is not the horrible Ultimogeniture.:)) In short, among Nomads, the most prestigious son or brother inherits. Minors can inherit Clan rule, but not the tribal Khaganate. Prestige, you say? But isn't that a bit boring? Yes, the player should get some control over the choice of heir. That's why we are introducing the concept of Dynamic Mercenaries.

View attachment 130095

What you do, as a Nomad ruler, is send out your most promising sons and brothers to prove their mettle in the wide world. They will then take some of your Manpower and appear as a Mercenary Band, available for hire by rulers in the general region. As they earn money, the size of their regiment will increase. There are various new events for them as they experience adventures in the court of their employer, on distant battlefields, etc. You will receive notifications about the more significant escapades, and if you happen to be their employer, you are also likely to get some fascinating interactions. In general, dynamic mercenaries tend to increase their skills and gain Prestige, but it is, of course, also a dangerous life... The idea is to foster a strong heir by letting them prove their worth and gain enough Prestige to succeed you.

View attachment 130094

The system with dynamic mercenaries is currently locked to Nomads only, but it is very easy to mod and we are likely to expand on it in future expansions. That's all for now folks. Next week; the Silk Road and Raiding Adventurers!

No intention to sound picky, but where are the announced changelogs?
 
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Shouldn't the dynamic mercenaries be for Cathar women as well as men? Even if this is moddable, it should be standard in the vanilla game where Cathar women can be Marshals, Generals and most importantly heirs. If a horde converts to Catharism they will be restricted to a male succession without the ability to send out female heirs -- de facto because of the succession being based on prestige.

I hope this gets adjusted before release.
Given the exact same problem is present with tribals which got slapped with Agnatic Only regardless of the culture belonging to the tribe in question, I'd count on this suffering the exact same problem.
 
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