One word; Sukarno. He would probably start a national revolution at some point, the question is; will a Javan dominated Indonesia be feasible in this TL.
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One word; Sukarno. He would probably start a national revolution at some point, the question is; will a Javan dominated Indonesia be feasible in this TL.
Okay, before the Japanese invasion of Indonesia in OTL, Sukarno was arrested. I assume he's been here as well. And unlike OTL, I think the war might be a boom time for Indonesia, in some ways. The fuel will be sent directly to the fleets, perhaps more industrialization on site. On the other hand, Japan should mess with shipping and such. So I imagine you see increased industrialization, urbanization, etc. While Sukarno is cooling his heels.
The Indonesian Communist Party did expand during OTL WW2, and had units in the war of independence. I think they'll gain in support and popularity, as Moscow directs anti-colonialist rhetoric and the Nationalists have Sukarno not around. But how much of a difference is unclear. And the Dutch had no problem ratcheting up repression. The islands constituted some 15-20% of Dutch income during the period, and there were a couple hundred thousand Dutchmen living there.
Can the Dutch (and British, etc?) blockade the islands and stop, say, Maoist and Soviet gun running?
Or will the Dutch suddenly decide, following British success in India, that there is a solution other than arresting anyone who thinks brown people are entitled to self-determination?
I don't think the Dutch will change their policy. And there will probably be a stronger Soviet support to all national self determination movements in the colonial empires than OTL. If Sukarno is imprisoned the nationalist may suffer, but there is still Muhammad Hatta. (Could we see Hatta become the leader and Sukarno the assistent in this TL?).
Of course we have the Communists as an alternative (they were like the nationalists very Javan centered), but there is also the possibility that with a very different war with Japan, the nationalists won't be able to spread their ideology outside Java. And when they rise up it's limited to Java (the other islands would probably rise up too, but independently from the nationalists). The islamist party Masyumi is interresting since their support was mainly outside Java, on Sumatra, Aceh, Kalimantan and Sulawesi.
Of course we have the Communists as an alternative (they were like the nationalists very Javan centered), but there is also the possibility that with a very different war with Japan, the nationalists won't be able to spread their ideology outside Java. And when they rise up it's limited to Java (the other islands would probably rise up too, but independently from the nationalists). The islamist party Masyumi is interresting since their support was mainly outside Java, on Sumatra, Aceh, Kalimantan and Sulawesi.
While I do agree that anti-fascists will be against torture regardless of TL, without the Nazi occupation I'm not sure that torture will be enough of a problem to cause what nearly was a civil war in France.
Beyond that, if it does, there won't be a figure like De Gaulle whom everyone can unite under.
Beyond that, if it does, there won't be a figure like De Gaulle whom everyone can unite under.
As the report from Dehli came in, Churchill chewed his cigar. "It's the beginning of the end of the Empire," he said. "Never have so many been chased away by so few."
Leo Amery shook his head. "It's just the end of the beginning. They'll be part of the Empire, with the King as their monarch. Tied to us by an alliance and the sterling…"
"Bah!" Churchill waved his hand dismissively. "We have spent two centuries bringing order to a continent, and we have been chased out by a lawyer in a diaper and a Hindu priesthood." The BBC narrator mentioned riots in Calcutta, and Churchill laughed. "You mark my words. I was in India, you know. I know what they're like."
"Wasn't that forty years ago?"
"And has not the China War shown the Sikhs are as loyal as they were under me? Besides," he added, "I've kept abreast of India's affairs. I read the latest books, you know."
Amery shrugged. "But I mean, there are members of the Indian National Congress and Muslim League in London. Maybe you should talk to them?"
"I READ A BOOK."
Amery collected himself, surveying the room. The history books, the portrait of the Duke of Marlborough… all signs of a man who wanted greatness, who could taste it, but had been found wanting. Churchill was a brilliant man, but never a leader of men.
"Winston, this is why Attlee didn't give you the Admiralty during the war. He knew you'd only ruffle the feathers of the Indians."
"So now we're appointing cabinet members based on the demands of a seditious Middle Temple Lawyer?"
"Well, that's not really what I said."
With the world going to hell in a handbasket, with even the Tories giving away the Empire, there was nothing Winston could do.
Save for one thing. "Care for a drink, Amery?"
Leo Amery shook his head. "It's just the end of the beginning. They'll be part of the Empire, with the King as their monarch. Tied to us by an alliance and the sterling…"
"Bah!" Churchill waved his hand dismissively. "We have spent two centuries bringing order to a continent, and we have been chased out by a lawyer in a diaper and a Hindu priesthood." The BBC narrator mentioned riots in Calcutta, and Churchill laughed. "You mark my words. I was in India, you know. I know what they're like."
"Wasn't that forty years ago?"
"And has not the China War shown the Sikhs are as loyal as they were under me? Besides," he added, "I've kept abreast of India's affairs. I read the latest books, you know."
Amery shrugged. "But I mean, there are members of the Indian National Congress and Muslim League in London. Maybe you should talk to them?"
"I READ A BOOK."
Amery collected himself, surveying the room. The history books, the portrait of the Duke of Marlborough… all signs of a man who wanted greatness, who could taste it, but had been found wanting. Churchill was a brilliant man, but never a leader of men.
"Winston, this is why Attlee didn't give you the Admiralty during the war. He knew you'd only ruffle the feathers of the Indians."
"So now we're appointing cabinet members based on the demands of a seditious Middle Temple Lawyer?"
"Well, that's not really what I said."
With the world going to hell in a handbasket, with even the Tories giving away the Empire, there was nothing Winston could do.
Save for one thing. "Care for a drink, Amery?"
Those pesky uncivilized tribes and their lack of proper gratitude...
Unified India will be burdened with severe civil strife unless their new leadership plays their cards very, very well.
Unified India will be burdened with severe civil strife unless their new leadership plays their cards very, very well.
India ripping itself apart while sir Winston sit delighted drinking a cup of tea amused over the whole situation. Then he send in the Sikhs.
I'm amazed at the absent controversy relating to Faeelin's portrayal of Winston as a bumbling, pompous oaf, particularly as there are people on these boards who get their panties in a bunch whenever Winston's described as anything less than the Second Coming.
I love reading this AAR, because it's great, but when you go through it from start to finish you sometimes end up feeling like it's just a huge row with the occasional update thrown in
I love reading this AAR, because it's great, but when you go through it from start to finish you sometimes end up feeling like it's just a huge row with the occasional update thrown in
Because it's Faeelin, a man renowned in another place for his rampant Anglophobia (and for occasionally throwing hissy fits and quitting before sneaking back scant weeks later.
)Expecting him to be nice to anyone British is like expecting Paradox to produce a game that doesn't need multiple patches; a forlorn hope that will only end in disappointment.
Because it's Faeelin, a man renowned in another place for his rampant Anglophobia (and for occasionally throwing hissy fits and quitting before sneaking back scant weeks later.
Expecting him to be nice to anyone British is like expecting Paradox to produce a game that doesn't need multiple patches; a forlorn hope that will only end in disappointment.
I'd have compared it to the MoD proposing sensible policy in peacetime, but the comparison stands anyway.
Well, it's India. Severe civil strife ain't new. That said, the presence of one hundred and forty million muslims in OTL India suggests it's possible for them to live together.
I saw this, and it itnerests me. My thing is, I guess, that Stalin didn't care about coloring the world a lovely shade of red. He cared about power, pure and simple. If it furthers his interests to help prop up an Iranian leftist regime and in doing so dick over the British... well, no problem.
Let the loyal Sikhs rule India?
A series of jokes suggest themselves, but they would only make you sick.
Well, there's no much of a way to defend Churchill's stance on India and brown people. He was an extreme reactionary on the subject.
Saving the free world made up for it in OTL of course. But there's no reason to pretend he wasn't, and wish the wogs had gone back to
Because it's Faeelin, a man renowned in another place for his rampant Anglophobia (and for occasionally throwing hissy fits and quitting before sneaking back scant weeks later.
Pff. This calls for a poll.
Because it's Faeelin, a man renowned in another place for his rampant Anglophobia (and for occasionally throwing hissy fits and quitting before sneaking back scant weeks later.
Expecting him to be nice to anyone British is like expecting Paradox to produce a game that doesn't need multiple patches; a forlorn hope that will only end in disappointment.
I sense a bit of you in your description of Faeelin. Just swap "British" with "Americans".
I've never thrown a hissy fit, flounced out in outrage and then shamefully shuffled back weeks later.
But the rest maybe. I put it down to years of awful alt-hist books where the Americans always win everything, after a while it wears you down and your forced to react against it.
Yeah, I feel that while Winston may have been a good PM for fighting the Nazis--or, hell, Napoleon--he took that, um, gung ho spirit and applied it to everything. He was an amazingly belligerent and arrogant man, and while sometimes that is sympathetic (especially in history and politics, when 'arrogance' is something you can say of most national leaders), his view on the colonies is despicable, and loses any respect i had for him.
(Also I feel that recently--like the last decade, people have been moving against seeing Churchill as a great guy, especially with the declassification of Ajax)
Hm, with his view on the colonials and no Nazis to fight, it seems like Churchill could move farther to the right, as he would be caring more and more about the decolonization going on, and looking more and more reactionary.
(Also I feel that recently--like the last decade, people have been moving against seeing Churchill as a great guy, especially with the declassification of Ajax)
Hm, with his view on the colonials and no Nazis to fight, it seems like Churchill could move farther to the right, as he would be caring more and more about the decolonization going on, and looking more and more reactionary.
I've never thrown a hissy fit, flounced out in outrage and then shamefully shuffled back weeks later.
But the rest maybe. I put it down to years of awful alt-hist books where the Americans always win everything, after a while it wears you down and your forced to react against it.
Like I said, "a bit".
Americans winning everything...I think we can thank Paradox for that.
I've never thrown a hissy fit, flounced out in outrage and then shamefully shuffled back weeks later.
But the rest maybe. I put it down to years of awful alt-hist books where the Americans always win everything, after a while it wears you down and your forced to react against it.
Oh so very true. Why do you think Germany and Britain always end up as allies in most of the things I write?
The Extension of Freedom Over All the World
The relationship of the Muslim League and the Indian National Congress has long been complex. From their mutual support in the Khalifat Movement[1] after the Great War, the two groups had become increasingly distant during the 1930s. It is not surprising in some ways; while Nehru and the INC’s leaders saw Muslims as another interest group, the Muslim League and its supporters as being far to willing to patronize Hindu bigots at the expense of Muslims, Untouchables, Sikhs, women, etc. Indeed, the INC openly rejected overtures from the Muslim League to form a coalition government in the Unite Provinces, telling the group its members would have to join the directly. No wonder Jinnah worried about the future of “Indian” democracy.
Still, for all Jinnah’s fears for the Muslim people, in majority Muslim provinces the League’s hold was yet limited. In Bengal, Fazl al-Haq’s Krishak Praja Party, which led various coalition governments after 1937, was dedicated to the uplift of the East Bengal tenantry; while in the Punjab Sikander Hayat’s Unionist Party, which had long had Hindu members, always represented itself as the defender of all Punjab’s agricultural classes. But perversely this lack of success ignited Muslim fears of being trapped by the Hindu majority, and so Jinnah and the Muslim league had an euphoric revival. In the next round of elections the Muslim League gained seats at the provincial and federal level; emboldened, in 1940 the League issued a manifest which declared that Muslims were not a minority within India, but a nation of their own. Yet nations are ambiguous terms; and in the early 1940s the Punjab, the cornerstone of the proposed “Pakistan”, was dominated by the Unionist Party, which represented rural Hindus and Muslims alike. Nor should we view Pakistan, with the potential to turn the Punjab into the Ulster of India, as the only option. In 1939, worried about the Muslim League’s renaissance and his own position, Sikander Hayat proposed a compromise solution, envisioning an Indian Federation and wrote to Gandhi about such a proposal. But it would take the Pacific War, and the Labor Government, to bring the Federation of India into being.
While the Attlee Government had engaged in talks during 1940 and 1941 about moving towards dominion status, conflicts were bedeviled by the issue of proportional representation at the federal level, minority safeguards at the provincial, control of the military, and the Dominion’s relationship with the Empire. Even as things were, the relationship with Britain was tense. Yet Attlee’s speech to parliament proved how things had changed. Speaking shortly after the attack on Singapore, he declared before Parliament that, “This is not a war against Japan. This is a war against imperialism, and the extension of freedom all over the world and equal access to all nations and all peoples of the good things of the world.”
What did this mean in the short term? For the duration of the war, the British viceroy in India appointed a “National” government, with members from Congress, the Muslim League, and other parties. Japan’s desperate attempts to stoke the fires of Indian nationalism failed pitifully, and Soviet aggression in Iran and Sinkiang only encouraged Nehru and other leftists within the Congress towards working towards a consensus with the Muslims. For its part, the Muslim League’s fortunes peaked in 1942 thanks to simple numbers. In provinces where Muslims were the majority, there was no incentive to form a Muslim-only party; in provinces where they weren’t, their influence was necessarily restricted. Moreover, the psychological shock of over a million Indians serving together in the Pacific War played an invaluable role in the state’s psyche; with the British promoted to a federal solution and regional Muslim leaders like Hayat now prominent at the national level, cries for a Muslim nation became increasingly absurd.
Still, the birth of the Indian Federation was painful. Hayat and his colleagues in Bengal had no desire to cede all power to Dehli. And so there were months of discussion and debate over the Confederation that took shape. There were crises; in a nation the size of India, how could there not? Mysore’s prince faced a popular revolution; Jinnah’s radicalism provoked rioting in Bombay, put down only when Gandhi fasted in the street. [2] To adequately maintain a delicate balance and protect human rights, India gained the world’s longest Constitution. [3] Nehru’s dreams of state planning failed to give India the prosperity its people needed. Yet the seeds of its economic boom were already being laid. For India’s federalism let Morarji Ranchhodji Desai, Prime Minister of Bombay [4], pursue a much more economically conservative policy. Bombay remained a center of British, and increasingly American, investment; and by the 1960s the province’s relative affluence helped embolden reformers there and elsewhere. The rest, as they say, is history.
First textiles, then transistor radios, then the world faces the nightmare of a video game industry spawning in a culture where four-armed gods do a dance of death as they drink the blood of their victims on the battlefield. It doesn't end well for Square.
It should have failed. 750 tongues, hundreds of millions of people of different faiths, building, slowly and painfully, a viable democracy? India’s first fifty years would see great changes, great joy and great sorrow. Islamic fundamentalism and communist guerillas. The Straits War. India would waver and crack. But in the end, it would hold. Because what is built endures, and what is loved endures. And India... India endures.
[1] Essentially, after the Great War India’s Muslims feared that Britain would depose the Caliph and destroy the position.
[2] Because he is that insane.
[3] Here’s the OTL Constitution: http://lawmin.nic.in/coi/coiason29july08.pdf. It’s… wow.
[4] In this context, this means the state of Bombay.
Lovely stuff, always had a soft spot for India, the bumblebee of modern democracy, it flies but no-one knows quite how
P.S - I fully endorse your alternate reality purely based on the idea of the Indian gaming industry. Genesha is the final boss!
P.S - I fully endorse your alternate reality purely based on the idea of the Indian gaming industry. Genesha is the final boss!
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