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One more thing

I haven't read any comments on the other two elements in my original post. Papal names and nicknames for kings. What do you people think about that?

Papal names I like, though we should still be able to track the character by his birth name. So we could get a pop-up when a new Pope is chosen that says something like, "The conclave has selected Joseph Ratzinger as the new Pope. He will reign as Pope Benedict XVI". Then when you bring up his portrait in the game, it will show him as Benedict XVI (Joseph Ratzinger). And it just struck me that numerals for Popes shouldn't be a problem.

As for nicknames, I think it would be best if they are only given posthumously, as a bit of flavor.
 
In my defence, I asked for it back in 2007. It's been shamelessly stolen. ;)

http://www.europa-universalis.com/forum/showthread.php?t=315820&page=22

Post #436

Great minds think alike huh? :)

Sure do! It's the first thing I thought about when I played CK1 years ago, the whole "I wish I had a few choices at least concerning my kids names". I'm pretty sure we weren't the first to think of that either. But, either way I'm glad a lot of people agreeing over the subject, hopefully it makes it into CK2. :D

Papal names I like, though we should still be able to track the character by his birth name. So we could get a pop-up when a new Pope is chosen that says something like, "The conclave has selected Joseph Ratzinger as the new Pope. He will reign as Pope Benedict XVI". Then when you bring up his portrait in the game, it will show him as Benedict XVI (Joseph Ratzinger). And it just struck me that numerals for Popes shouldn't be a problem.

As for nicknames, I think it would be best if they are only given posthumously, as a bit of flavor.

I agree, I hope these ideas make it into the game as well. As for nicknames, I don't mind if they are when the ruler is living, but nicknames should be pretty rare I would think (to make it feel like more of an achievement, for better or worse depending on the title).
 
I totally agree.

And i also CRAVE a list of previous kings for each kingdom, with ruling dates, and other important information.

Me too and I agree. :D I always want lots of data for everything in game. To me that adds a lot of flavor and replay value.
 
Sure do! It's the first thing I thought about when I played CK1 years ago, the whole "I wish I had a few choices at least concerning my kids names". I'm pretty sure we weren't the first to think of that either. But, either way I'm glad a lot of people agreeing over the subject, hopefully it makes it into CK2. :D
Very pleased to hear it's a popular "want" for CK2. If nothing else, it provides an attachment to your characters when you can name them yourself.

I also like the idea of being able to have 'family' names, just as the Anglo-Normans (and other cultures) did... so the eldest son would have the same first name as his father, and other sons might be named after other prominent members of the mother and father's families etc.

Anyway, hopefully we'll be happy come 2012 in this regard. :)
 
I think i'll be happy come 2012 anyway!
 
Nicknames - given when the character is still alive

I strongly feel the game should award-take away nicknames when the king is still alive. This could be done by event. I feel the nicknames should not be given to every king, but perhaps to every third or fourth one.

This would help the roleplaying immensely.

Possible nicknames and reasons for getting them.



Acts the king has done

Erik the Kingslayer - Assasinated the last king who helt hold the title
Olav the oppressor - oppressed a specific country or folk group
William Knytling hammer of the Scots (or norwegians, swedes, kypriots or whatever) HAs waged wars on a specific country, folk group or whatever a number of times.
Wilhelm the Unholy - has gotten the trait excommunicated
Gerhard the kingmaker - has set up kings in other countries


Personal characteristics
John the Cripple - Crippled in a mayor battle
Johanna the mad - goes without saying
Wriatoslaw the tall
Charles the leper - Has become a leper
Wriatoslaw the pole - a pole has become king of another country, for instance Sweden

The list could go on and on, and the possibilities are endless!
 
I strongly feel the game should award-take away nicknames when the king is still alive. This could be done by event. I feel the nicknames should not be given to every king, but perhaps to every third or fourth one.

I believe they should require great or horrible things that the King does during his reign. Also, I like the idea of personal characteristics, the short, the tall, etc. But ya, I agree, getting a nickname like that should be pretty rare.

Just a short listing of real people with nicknames for the sake of ideas..

Charles the Hammer (Charles Martel/Charles Martellus)
Charles the Great (Charlemagne/Charles Magnus)
Pepin the Short
Louis the Pious
Childebert the Adopted
Charles the Bald
Louis the German
Charles the Fat
Louis the Younger
Louis the Stammerer

On another note, was there any women who had nicknames? Like Isabella the Beautiful, or something like that?
 
On another note, was there any women who had nicknames? Like Isabella the Beautiful, or something like that?

# Isabel Luísa, Princess of Beira the Always-Engaged
# Isabella I of Castile the Catholic, the Law and Order Queen [12]
# Isabella II of Spain the Queen of Intrigues [13], She of Sad Destinies
# Isabella of Angoulême the Helen of the Middle Ages
# Isabella of France the Fair, the She-Wolf of France
# Isabella d'Este the First Lady of the Renaissance
# Isabel Sarmiento de Zúñiga, 3rd Countess of Santa Maria de Ortiguiera la Bermeja

From Wiki's List of Nicknames of European royalty and nobility

Obviously not all might be (CK2) period.

See also the List of monarchs by nickname.
 
Nicknames are something you as a player might give the character... Typically a nickname changes through a kings life - Example would be Olav 'Digre' (the large) who later became know as 'den Hellige' (the holy).

The numerals is also something that is more for historians than was used in the period.
 
# Isabel Luísa, Princess of Beira the Always-Engaged
# Isabella I of Castile the Catholic, the Law and Order Queen [12]
# Isabella II of Spain the Queen of Intrigues [13], She of Sad Destinies
# Isabella of Angoulême the Helen of the Middle Ages
# Isabella of France the Fair, the She-Wolf of France
# Isabella d'Este the First Lady of the Renaissance
# Isabel Sarmiento de Zúñiga, 3rd Countess of Santa Maria de Ortiguiera la Bermeja

From Wiki's List of Nicknames of European royalty and nobility

Obviously not all might be (CK2) period.

See also the List of monarchs by nickname.

Most of those nicknames were created in the XVIII-XIXth Century, so they were not contemporarious. Except for some that were actually living in the XVIII-XIXth Centuries.

Gentlemen, this petitions have some problems:

First, about nicknames, most of them were not used during the monarch's lifetime. Some did, but it was not common. They were made up in Modern era by romantics and historians. For example, John II of Aragon was called the Faithless by his enemies, but he had no other surname. For some reason, he's remembered in Wikipedia as the Great, for probably the same reason Philip IV of Spain was also the Great, while he did nothing worthy worthy of greatness. Instead, he was sometimes called the Planet-King, a mock considering that his rival, Louis XIV of France, was the Sun-King.

Also, a king had some surnames, or many, or none. Surnames are a romantic thing, like plate armours in the XIth Century.

Second, about numerals, they were also not used until the XIVth Century, and even then their use was not wide. Only some monarchs did use numerals, and usually wrong. Frederick III of Sicily was actually the second king of Sicily to be called Frederick, but since the former one was the Holy Roman Emperor, Frederick II (second HREmperor of that name), the numeral stood.

Peter IV of Aragon signed Pere Terç, Peter the Third, because Peter I of Aragon had not been Count of Barcelona and he considered that he didn't count.

Only Popes used commonly numerals, and even then they were mistaken. If you don't believe me, look for John XX...
 
Second, about numerals, they were also not used until the XIVth Century, and even then their use was not wide. Only some monarchs did use numerals, and usually wrong. Frederick III of Sicily was actually the second king of Sicily to be called Frederick, but since the former one was the Holy Roman Emperor, Frederick II (second HREmperor of that name), the numeral stood.

Peter IV of Aragon signed Pere Terç, Peter the Third, because Peter I of Aragon had not been Count of Barcelona and he considered that he didn't count.

Only Popes used commonly numerals, and even then they were mistaken. If you don't believe me, look for John XX...

This gives me the same type of vibe as let's call Byzantine Empire the Roman Empire because that's the actual name - yet we all know it as the Byzantine Empire because of 18th century history, a few hundred years after the fall of it type of thing. I know it's apples to oranges, but still when looking back from today's date, we know them with numerals. On top of that, it helps us distinguish between Richard II, Richard III, and Richard IV, for example. It's also useful for AAR's, since we'll probably be using numerals for that anyways.

The same thing can be said about nicknames. Personally, I feel it adds a bit of flair to the game. It's sort of prestigious to be called "King Louis IX the Pious" for example, it adds a bit of character... to the character, instead of just "King Louis". Although, these should be pretty rare, if everyone has a nickname it takes the prestige out of it.
 
Nicknames are something you as a player might give the character... Typically a nickname changes through a kings life - Example would be Olav 'Digre' (the large) who later became know as 'den Hellige' (the holy).

The numerals is also something that is more for historians than was used in the period.

I strongly disagree. These names should be given to the king by mechanics in the game, not by the player.

On another note, it may be possible that both numerals and nicknames was not used in this era, but got attatched to the kings and queens later on. Still, we all know these persons by their nicknames and numerals today, and it would be nice if this was reflected in the game also.

On the topic of nicknamed women, we have Johanna the mad. Wonderful nickname.

The norwegian kings Harald Greyfell, and Harald Fairhair are also examples of interesting nicknames. Oh, i hope they'll include this feature in the game! Pretty please!
 
This gives me the same type of vibe as let's call Byzantine Empire the Roman Empire because that's the actual name - yet we all know it as the Byzantine Empire because of 18th century history, a few hundred years after the fall of it type of thing.

I agree so much to your post.
 
If the numbers can be worked out, I'd say yes, but nicknames are going to be problematic because what the nickname should be is subjective.

If Paradox uses this feature, I predict a plethora of posts complaining that the nickname system is broken.
 
If the numbers can be worked out, I'd say yes, but nicknames are going to be problematic because what the nickname should be is subjective.

If Paradox uses this feature, I predict a plethora of posts complaining that the nickname system is broken.

Or that at the same time you will have 25 different rulers nicknamed 'the Pious' or 'the Wise'.
 
To have this system it is vital that we do not get a situation which Veld describes here. One should have a multitude of nicknames.
AS for the traits wise and pious on could substitute these traits with other words of a similar nature.

Wise (This is just from the top of my head)
Erik the Learned
Erik the scholar
Erik Reader


Pious
Erik the holy
Erik Churchbuilder
Erik the King Bishop
ERik the bishop
Erik the saint

There are dozens of other words i think.
But pious and wise should just be 2 out of dozens of other possibilities to aqcuire a nickname.
 
If the numbers can be worked out, I'd say yes, but nicknames are going to be problematic because what the nickname should be is subjective.

If Paradox uses this feature, I predict a plethora of posts complaining that the nickname system is broken.

They could make it in such a way that it's hard to achieve, and make a point in telling people it's a rarity.

For example..

The Conqueror - Take 30 provinces in a single lifetime
The Pious - Must have a 1000 piety (or whatever is the extent of super-super-super high)
The Great - Must have 1000 prestige (or whatever is the extent of super-super-super high)
The Cripple - Be personally injured 5 times and live through it.
The Stammerer - Have the trait stammer (perhaps a 20% chance of actually being labeled as that)
The [culturename] - Such as "The Frank" or "The German" or "The English" - This could have bearing if you stay within your culture (marriages on all levels)
The Good - Your realm is superbly happy for a very long time.
The Adopted - Have the adopted trait (perhaps a 20% chance of actually being labeled that)
The Bald - You have the bald trait (perhaps a 20% chance of actually being labeled as that)
The Heretic - Be excommunicated (20% chance of label)

For the most part it could be things really hard to get, or make them pretty much rare and leave them up to chance, such as the trait nickname examples.
 
If nicknames are used, it should be a random trait that is not used as a nickname of anyone with the same name. For variation, one could have several nicknames for each trait, some could be culturally based. I.e. 'Hardraade' for cruel.

Nicknames like 'the conquerer' are hard to get, as you get a nickname as a young man (remember, William was 'the bastard' before he was 'the conquerer'). An event might change a nickname at some point after one becomes king...
 
They could make it in such a way that it's hard to achieve, and make a point in telling people it's a rarity.

For example..

The Conqueror - Take 30 provinces in a single lifetime
The Pious - Must have a 1000 piety (or whatever is the extent of super-super-super high)
The Great - Must have 1000 prestige (or whatever is the extent of super-super-super high)
The Cripple - Be personally injured 5 times and live through it.
The Stammerer - Have the trait stammer (perhaps a 20% chance of actually being labeled as that)
The [culturename] - Such as "The Frank" or "The German" or "The English" - This could have bearing if you stay within your culture (marriages on all levels)
The Good - Your realm is superbly happy for a very long time.
The Adopted - Have the adopted trait (perhaps a 20% chance of actually being labeled that)
The Bald - You have the bald trait (perhaps a 20% chance of actually being labeled as that)
The Heretic - Be excommunicated (20% chance of label)

For the most part it could be things really hard to get, or make them pretty much rare and leave them up to chance, such as the trait nickname examples.

I would like the inclusion of alternatives for the same achievements. So we wouldn't have the cripple for every monarch injuried 5 times in battle. Alternatives such as "The Scarred", "the Fighter", "the Bold", "the Brave", would make sure the world wouldn't be filled with monarchs called "the Crippled." or filled with "The Pious"