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Stigandr

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Dec 11, 2008
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Hi all,

I've decided to try DVIP, and DVIP addon. Having taken a look at the map, I'd like to play Duchy of Alania and try to recreate the Khazar empire. (Yes, I know the Khazars and the Alans aren't the same, but it's the closest I can get, since the Duchy of Khazars is Jewish and therefore unplayable; unless there is a way in DVIP?).

It'll be tricky to get the many provinces needed to become King of Khazaria, since I want it to be my first king title I'll have to do it as a duke (Instead of cheekily grabbing the Georgian king title) :rolleyes: . Also, Alania does seem in a difficult position, stuck between Georgia (=Seljuk breakfast) on one hand, and Cumans on the other.

Any tips? :)

cheers,
Stigandr.

Edit: Forgot to mention, I did try 20 years of DVIP as Cherson, just to get an idea of the differences.
 
The Seljuks rarely come that far north, so i don't think they are your immediate concern. On the other hand, the cumans are, and you will need to keep them off your back. Do whatever it takes. If they do attack, try to pool your armies and beat the first army then send in. Then offer all your gold to them for peace and hope they accept. If they do, you'll have up to a generation of peace with them, and concentrate on consolidating your realm. You might want to take out the jewish Khazaria asap, and then just bide your time. Either expanding into the Georgia area or hoping the cumans overextend themselves (as they seem very aggressive) and then pounce on them when they are weakened.

You might also want to consider pledging to Georgia for added deterrence.
 
Tempest, thanks for your response! I thought about pledging to Georgia, but my experience of Cherson (as vassal of Byzantium) wasn't good. I'd assumed that when, as a liege, I demanded a vassal mobilise, that I'd be paying for his troops, since they'd be fighting under my banner, under my command. But Byzantium demanded I mobilise, and when I acquiesced, it proceeded to destroy my economy very quickly! So how do you avoid this as a vassal?

Also, I've noticed the Alans don't rule any culturally Alan territories. Does this make it inevitable they'll become Cuman Pagan or Turkish Jewish? (They have three Cuman Pagan territories and one Turkish Jewish territory). Or is it possible that I'll "convert" the provinces to Alan before my ruling dynasty becomes Cuman/Turkish?
 
Well as a liege you don't actually pay for your vassal's troops :) ... they are free and the vassal pays all the bills (not a big deal for the AI as it can't go below 0 gold). Same happens when your liege demands troops (and you give them to him). But you can just set the maintenance slider to 0 and then the liege will foot the bill for you. Problem is that you then have no control over when and if you get your troops back. The Ai is not very good at remembering to disband all regiments after a war.

I tend to give him nothing, and mobilize on my own if I feel the need to defend myself or to help out my liege.

No ... as long as you keep marrying Alan women there is a good chance your heirs will stay Alan. There is a 15% chance of offspring taking the culture of the province they are born in. You can still produce Alan children even when you marry outside your culture but then chances are bigger that culture will be different. I think the chance for culture of a child is 50% from father, 35% from mother and 15% from province.

you can try to change culture, but there has to be a province with Alan culture within your realm for that to spread, and it is pretty difficult.
 
Thanks for all the info Tempest! Actually I was wrong; 3 out of the 4 starting Alania provinces are Alan, not Cuman; so culture is less of a concern. Thanks for the advice about being a vassal as well; I was worried it'd be economically unfeasible to be the vassal of a liege who ever went to war!

I grabbed Saray from the Cumans when there were at war with the Turkmen and the Volga Bulgars, but they're still quite intimidating...
 
I can imagine :)

Anyways be patient and cynical towards the cumans. They will never break the truce you have after your war, but you should have no such fine feelings. If you see them being a target again, by all means break the truce, take the prestige hit and go for more land. Remember even wars where you get nothing can be to your advantage, as long as they lose territory to other realms.

So if they get into a fight with Hungary, the Pechnegs and Turkmens, pounce on them. That might keep them from keeping the other realms off as they go to fight you. Then you might gain nothing but Hungary gains three provinces. Weakened Cuman = success for you. Just be careful with helping the other realms too much .. or they turn into the Cumans, and one day they might be your neighbours.

Also remember that expansion warfare can be difficult if you are a vassal, as Georgia might settle peace on your behalf ... often when you are just about to get your province(s) ... and often just settles for a few gold.
 
There's a mod for playable Muslim/Jewish nations for DV @ http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...Pagan-Playable-female-inheritance-for-2.1beta -- at least, it worked for me fine. Not sure if there were any bad side effects. Though.. playing as the Duke of Khazar is reallly tough in the beginning, you start with one province and everyone is your religious enemy, including the large pagan Cuman empire just above you.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone! My other worry about playing Duke of Khazars is that I'd quite like to play Khazaria through to EUIII, which as I understand it wouldn't be possible without a lot of modding with a Jewish nation. So I've decided I'm better off forming the Alanian Khazaria instead. :)

I decided not to pledge to Georgia, since that kingdom rapidly disappeared under a sea of Seljuks, Mosuls, and Derbents. :D

Unfortunately my current Prince is a heretic, which means that all my clerical courtiers, zealous vassals and my bishopric vassal are all losing loyalty fast, and I don't have the money to keep them all sweet. Meanwhile, my truce with the Cumans will soon run out. Any ideas? :confused:
 
Hi all,

Another question on the same game; I've expanded quite a lot, and am now Prince of Alania, Azov, Rostov, and Itil. However, only 2 provinces have gone Orthodox, so most of my realm is Pagan. My court recently absorbed a few Pagan families for reasons I don't really understand. My question is this: If I marry my ruler and all his sons to Pagan wives, such that one of them will eventually have a Pagan boy, and I grant lands such that the Pagan inherits (possible since I've got semisalic consanguinuity) would the game crash? I think it would be awesome to play Pagan Alans, but I don't want it to kill the savegame, and I haven't specifically downloaded any mods to make Pagans playable (I just have DVIP and DVIP:Addon). Thoughts?

Cheers,
Stigandr.
 
No :) ... the children will take the religion of their father always I believe .. and if they take ecclesiastical education they will switch to the religion of the highest ranking liege of the realm. So if a pagan son is born in the court of a muslim count, who is ruled by a catholic duke, who has an othodox king, and the kid takes a priestly education, his religion would turn to Othodox when he finishes the education.

If you have an heir that is pagan or muslim, you can continue play. But once you exit, you cannot reload as that realm, unless you add the mod that makes them playable (or make edits in the save game file).
 
Thanks again for the response, Tempest! Does that mean that - short of hoping a Pagan king emerges to pledge allegiance to, and then send my heirs through Pagan Priest School :rolleyes: there's no way of converting?

In which case, another question: does DVIP reduce the rate of province religious and cultural conversion? Because it does seem a lot rarer...
 
Stigandr said:
Thanks again for the response, Tempest! Does that mean that - short of hoping a Pagan king emerges to pledge allegiance to, and then send my heirs through Pagan Priest School :rolleyes: there's no way of converting?

In which case, another question: does DVIP reduce the rate of province religious and cultural conversion? Because it does seem a lot rarer...
Click to expand...

If you have a pagan liege, you will get events that let you take the liege's religion (at least the Ai gets them, not sure if the player does). So you might not have to send the heir through ecclesiastical school to get a pagan ruler.

Not to my knowledge. But I only have an older version of DVIP, and not sure if Jordarkelf have tinkered with the conversion events later on ... but I doubt it.
 
Well, I did it. Created Khazaria, so I'm now the Orthodox Alan Kingdom of Khazaria. And, within the year, the Princes of Muscowy, Pereyaslavl, and Lithuania (all with territories mostly within Rus) offered their allegiance, which I accepted in bewilderment, as did the Prince of Ryazan (whose territories were almost all in northern Scandinavia) which I rejected.

I'm really puzzled; I know that as a King I now can have Princes as vassals, but I thought it was usually nobles within the proclaimed realm (in this case, Khazaria) who would rush to offer allegiance? Why have various random Russian princes decided to do the same?

Frankly, I don't want as much territory as these Russian princes have brought me - some of them have realm duress, so I might let some of their more distant vassals go as and when the opportunity arises.

What do y'all think? :)
 
Stigandr said:
Well, I did it. Created Khazaria, so I'm now the Orthodox Alan Kingdom of Khazaria. And, within the year, the Princes of Muscowy, Pereyaslavl, and Lithuania (all with territories mostly within Rus) offered their allegiance, which I accepted in bewilderment, as did the Prince of Ryazan (whose territories were almost all in northern Scandinavia) which I rejected.

I'm really puzzled; I know that as a King I now can have Princes as vassals, but I thought it was usually nobles within the proclaimed realm (in this case, Khazaria) who would rush to offer allegiance? Why have various random Russian princes decided to do the same?

Frankly, I don't want as much territory as these Russian princes have brought me - some of them have realm duress, so I might let some of their more distant vassals go as and when the opportunity arises.

What do y'all think? :)
Click to expand...

You definitely don't have the latest beta-patch installed :) ... those random vassalization offers were a bug in some of the earlier beta-patches as well as v2.0. You need to install the beta-patch from October 2008.
 
Actually I do. :p When I get to the menu, it definitely says CK 2.1Beta.

And I remember those random vassalisation offers; if that was the problem, it would be offers from Dukes in England, or counts in Iberia, or Princes in Mesopotamia... :D

This is just the Russian princes, so I think it's less random than the previous bug.
 
Stigandr said:
Actually I do. :p When I get to the menu, it definitely says CK 2.1Beta.

And I remember those random vassalisation offers; if that was the problem, it would be offers from Dukes in England, or counts in Iberia, or Princes in Mesopotamia... :D

This is just the Russian princes, so I think it's less random than the previous bug.
Click to expand...

May I make the hazardous guess that you bought CK Complete and installed that as is?? .. because that is beta-patched .. but only with the patch from June 2008. So that version is not fixed.
 
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