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Yeah... it was just epic. I have no idea how the hell I managed to fuck things up that badly, but it was definiatly the best game I ever played. (Second best was as Barcelona where I managed to create a historic KoJ and place el cids kids, who he had with my kings daughter, on the castillian throne :p sadly there wasn't any big events fucking my empire up :/)
 
Maybe the new "Paradox achievements" could motivate players to keep playing even when their line goes mad?

I saw in one trailer that they had a "World conquest as Ryukyu" achievement. As a rewarding for people who play even the suckiest nation and bring it to glory.

They could, for CK2, also bring in achievements like
- "Succeed to have a schizophrenic hunchbacked kinslayer crowned emperor"
- "Survived 30 years of realm duress"
- "Defeated the Mongol host with an army led by a club-footed, inbred leper"

That could bring some motivation to people, make them enjoy the dark and chaotic side of the game.

:)
 
You shouldn't be able to kill of your sucky ruler, just because he's a disaster, however if he's depressed he might kill himself randomly like in CK1. Also: I hope the court might get involved in plots by your heirs, that eventually could end in your king being assassinated. think the king's son plotting with the Spymaster.
I concur. I think one should be able to set some wheels in motion to hurry alone the inevitable as you pointed out but not outright "delete" the king so to speak.
 
Maybe the new "Paradox achievements" could motivate players to keep playing even when their line goes mad?

I saw in one trailer that they had a "World conquest as Ryukyu" achievement. As a rewarding for people who play even the suckiest nation and bring it to glory.

They could, for CK2, also bring in achievements like
- "Succeed to have a schizophrenic hunchbacked kinslayer crowned emperor"
- "Survived 30 years of realm duress"
- "Defeated the Mongol host with an army led by a club-footed, inbred leper"

That could bring some motivation to people, make them enjoy the dark and chaotic side of the game.

:)

Awesome idea! These achievements have the potential to really add alot to the game!
 
Your ideas and your thread are interesting, but I thought a ruler could already commit suicide by depression, in CK, no? Would not that be a sufficiant way to handle suicide? About the stupid kings, I feel like you. When you have a stupid king, you like it because you can blame him instead of yourself. The way it work now seems good, but the mission suggestion is also a good one. Even if it's just a joke, I would like to implement that.
 
I forget who said it, but not to have dysfunctional monarchs in CK is to miss out on fun gameplay and realism.

I agree 100%. A part of the charm is trying to get through a horrible king's reign. I would not like to see an option to just remove a king if you feel that he's insane, an idiot, etc (if you really want to do it, use the console then). An event that remove's a king from power that is rare would be fine though.
 
I've been thinking about this a lot myself...I mean, historically, a king could abdicate (I mean, he was legally entitled to), but, logically, most kings wouldn't want to give up their kingship. (I think abdication would be more historically accurate than suicide, given that suicide was a major, major sin at the time.) In the game, of course, having an "abdicate" button would just give the player carte blanche to choose his king with little consequence, but I've had situations where I've had good kings, wise kings that have had a good run and well prepared their successor, that I've really wanted to abdicate rather than die -- sort of the situation a real king might abdicate in.

I'd suggest that considering abdication be a political action, like an assassination, with a chance of refusal. Why would you refuse your own abdication? Because you're a horrible king! :rofl:

In my mind, the "consider abdication" button would work like this:

  1. You press "consider abdication" button
  2. Game takes into account your king's stats (whatever those'll end up being in CK2) and figures out if, statistically, you're a wise king. For CK1, the stats you'd probably check might be piety (a really pious king might want to retire to a monastery, especially if he's celibate), diplomacy (understanding the court implications of abdication and political reasons for doing so), and maybe prestige (if he's reknown, he can retire with minimal loss of face; if he's an unknown, he might be reluctant to disgrace himself). Obviously, a greedy king might be counted as a negative. I didn't mention intrigue or martial b/c there's no reason to expect a devious schemer or military genius to exhibit the sort of foresight and generosity needed to abdicate to your successor.
  3. Game randomly decides whether or not your king will really abdicate -- good kings (i.e., ones that you'd probably not want to abdicate) would have a higher chance whereas the crazies would probably irrationally want to hold onto their thrones.
  4. If successful, your king "dies" in a retirement event, and the succession crisis moves on as normal (maybe with a posthumous prestige/piety boost or loss to the old ruler, depending on circumstances...could affect possible beatification). If not, you'd suffer the consequences.

Consequences of an unsuccessful abdication could include:

  • Loss of prestige -- the ruler is exposed as weak-willed for considering quitting and shamed in front of his peers. This would probably be the worst consequence.
  • Loss of loyalty -- why would the nobles stay loyal to a waffling, ineffectual king? Probably a loyalty loss across the board, maybe even applying to a successful abdication, making a succession crisis more likely and more severe.
  • Negative traits -- possibly "coward" or maybe a new trait or traits.

Maybe suicide could be an option, but it's a pretty major sin, so it'd have to have major consequences:

  • Major prestige loss to the entire dynasty -- IRL, a medieval suicide could probably tarnish the whole family's name. At least, the sons' standing would be hurt, in all likelihood. This would make a succession crisis far more probable.
  • Posthumous excommunication -- he couldn't be buried in consecrated ground, after all. Not much effect, but would ruin chances of beatification.
  • Maybe events for the successor to try to cover up the scandal...maybe the results could be even worse if you don't put your prestige and money on the line.
  • Maybe a chance of excommunication for the successor, or even all the sons of the suicided monarch -- "the sins of the father visited on the son". Would this be historical for medieval Europe?
  • To spice things up, how about a chance of automatic realm duress for the sons?

That way, suicide would be an option (for characters that can't abdicate), but would visit the appropriate amount of shame and hardship on the family, and quite possibly be worse than toughing it out.
 
Tell me, name me kings who voluntarily abdicated, of their own initiative, because they knew they were dimwits?

Most, if not all, were either ousted and deposed by a coup, forced to abdicate under coertion, or were plain murdered by barons or siblings. It should be all in-game, no gamey "suicide button" for the player.
 
I've been thinking about this a lot myself...I mean, historically, a king could abdicate (I mean, he was legally entitled to), but, logically, most kings wouldn't want to give up their kingship. (I think abdication would be more historically accurate than suicide, given that suicide was a major, major sin at the time.) In the game, of course, having an "abdicate" button would just give the player carte blanche to choose his king with little consequence, but I've had situations where I've had good kings, wise kings that have had a good run and well prepared their successor, that I've really wanted to abdicate rather than die -- sort of the situation a real king might abdicate in.

I'd suggest that considering abdication be a political action, like an assassination, with a chance of refusal. Why would you refuse your own abdication? Because you're a horrible king! :rofl:

In my mind, the "consider abdication" button would work like this:


  1. You press "consider abdication" button
  2. Game takes into account your king's stats (whatever those'll end up being in CK2) and figures out if, statistically, you're a wise king. For CK1, the stats you'd probably check might be piety (a really pious king might want to retire to a monastery, especially if he's celibate), diplomacy (understanding the court implications of abdication and political reasons for doing so), and maybe prestige (if he's reknown, he can retire with minimal loss of face; if he's an unknown, he might be reluctant to disgrace himself). Obviously, a greedy king might be counted as a negative. I didn't mention intrigue or martial b/c there's no reason to expect a devious schemer or military genius to exhibit the sort of foresight and generosity needed to abdicate to your successor.
  3. Game randomly decides whether or not your king will really abdicate -- good kings (i.e., ones that you'd probably not want to abdicate) would have a higher chance whereas the crazies would probably irrationally want to hold onto their thrones.
  4. If successful, your king "dies" in a retirement event, and the succession crisis moves on as normal (maybe with a posthumous prestige/piety boost or loss to the old ruler, depending on circumstances...could affect possible beatification). If not, you'd suffer the consequences.


Consequences of an unsuccessful abdication could include:


  • Loss of prestige -- the ruler is exposed as weak-willed for considering quitting and shamed in front of his peers. This would probably be the worst consequence.
  • Loss of loyalty -- why would the nobles stay loyal to a waffling, ineffectual king? Probably a loyalty loss across the board, maybe even applying to a successful abdication, making a succession crisis more likely and more severe.
  • Negative traits -- possibly "coward" or maybe a new trait or traits.


Maybe suicide could be an option, but it's a pretty major sin, so it'd have to have major consequences:


  • Major prestige loss to the entire dynasty -- IRL, a medieval suicide could probably tarnish the whole family's name. At least, the sons' standing would be hurt, in all likelihood. This would make a succession crisis far more probable.
  • Posthumous excommunication -- he couldn't be buried in consecrated ground, after all. Not much effect, but would ruin chances of beatification.
  • Maybe events for the successor to try to cover up the scandal...maybe the results could be even worse if you don't put your prestige and money on the line.
  • Maybe a chance of excommunication for the successor, or even all the sons of the suicided monarch -- "the sins of the father visited on the son". Would this be historical for medieval Europe?
  • To spice things up, how about a chance of automatic realm duress for the sons?


That way, suicide would be an option (for characters that can't abdicate), but would visit the appropriate amount of shame and hardship on the family, and quite possibly be worse than toughing it out.

A very nice proposed system methinks. I would like to see a little more put into the "randomly" aspect however. Nothing worse than being victim of RNG.
 
I agree, don't think one should ever be able to willingly and easily kill off a bad king.

That said I did sort of cheat once in my England game (Now converted to eu2). I once had an absolutely terrible king who my vessels hated and had a very long and had drawn out civil war where I lost a good chunk of my kingdom. Due to a glitch however, I had an event which gave me an option to fund a bastard to kill his brother. Of course I would have denied him this but then I noticed that his brother he wanted to kill was my king so I quickly funded my own assassination. It worked and peace and harmony was restored under a well loved boy king who later died due to a poisoned drink :(
 
The king ought to be able to abidicate, but it shouldnt be the players choice
the court the action should need to be pass a vote of court members or some other mechanic, whereby you can get rid of the king. But only if the Heir has the support to carry it off or the king severly lacks the loyalty.
If its in the players hands entirely, then it happens due to the player pressing a button, not for any reasons that make sense. Kings have duties, and wouldnt get away with just abicating willy-nilly. Theyd only be allowed to abidacate if the court/vassals wanted him gone also.
 
The king ought to be able to abidicate, but it shouldnt be the players choice
the court the action should need to be pass a vote of court members or some other mechanic, whereby you can get rid of the king. But only if the Heir has the support to carry it off or the king severly lacks the loyalty.
If its in the players hands entirely, then it happens due to the player pressing a button, not for any reasons that make sense. Kings have duties, and wouldnt get away with just abicating willy-nilly. Theyd only be allowed to abidacate if the court/vassals wanted him gone also.
 
The better option is a regency of one kind or another, that strongly boosts the ruler's stats. A strong queen or queen-mother and/or chancellor should be able to quietly do so. It might depend too on the ruler's popularity (if the stat from EU Rome is used, quite nice one IMO). You can have an imbecile who is popular with the masses, but who doesn't know a thing about war or finances.

For historical abdications (and suicide missions), I know more about early modern examples. A key one was Carlos V who just had enough of ruling half the know world and even more so the Habsburg family. On the other hand, there are examples of rather dim-witted monarchs like Portugal's Sebastiao who on his confessor's advice charged off to conquer Morocco without a legal heir. His closest relative was a cardinal, who succeeded him, but then the throne passed to Felipe II of Spain.
 
The better option is a regency of one kind or another, that strongly boosts the ruler's stats. A strong queen or queen-mother and/or chancellor should be able to quietly do so. It might depend too on the ruler's popularity (if the stat from EU Rome is used, quite nice one IMO). You can have an imbecile who is popular with the masses, but who doesn't know a thing about war or finances.

For historical abdications (and suicide missions), I know more about early modern examples. A key one was Carlos V who just had enough of ruling half the know world and even more so the Habsburg family. On the other hand, there are examples of rather dim-witted monarchs like Portugal's Sebastiao who on his confessor's advice charged off to conquer Morocco without a legal heir. His closest relative was a cardinal, who succeeded him, but then the throne passed to Felipe II of Spain.

I agree Karel V was quite unique in that regard. Another example is Holy Roman Emperor (elect) Rudolf II, who was forced by his (Austrian Habsburg) relatives to hand over territories and a few months before his dead he was a ruler only in name.

In other cases, like Charles VI of France, who became mad, there was a regency council.
 
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I agree Karel V was quite unique in that regard. Another example is Holy Roman Emperor (elect) Rudolf II, who forced by his (Austrian Habsburg) relatives to hand over territories and a few months before his dead he was a ruler only in name.

In other cases, like Charles VI of France, who became mad, there was a regency council.

I'm not saying that Karl V was typical, but I think that what is important is what is in the realm of possibility. Regencies were much more typical, but so was distracting a weak king with a crusade or something else.
 
but when it wasnt a regency, the people who would have made up a regency if there was one, were still very powerful and so if the king is weak, while hes still the king, the court ought to be able to overrule him in some situations, and in extreme ones, force him to resign in favour of a heir they like more