Genpei War

[chatnoir17]

You mean the clan page has multiple options with the new ranks to buy?

Honestly speaking, I didn't understand what Joel M Bridge wanted to ask me...

I haven't added any new rank yet. I have just changed some triggers and names of the existing ranks in vanilla. I have also added some titles at the Imperial Court. If you play my mod, you will notice these titles quite easily.

 

[Hister]

Just fire his mod up GShock - it will spare you time asking questions when you an see a lot at a glance with as little as a few minutes of playing the mod.

 

[GShock]

Just fire his mod up GShock - it will spare you time asking questions when you an see a lot at a glance with as little as a few minutes of playing the mod.

Without the building limiter it's a hell of a waste of time. I just wish I knew what the guys are doing. It's been a month since last news about Sengoku and we DESPERATELY need a patch.

 

[chatnoir17]

Without the building limiter it's a hell of a waste of time. I just wish I knew what the guys are doing.

It is truely sad that you are just interested in the limiter, not this mod itself.
As I said, my priority in making this mod is listed in the second post, so please be patient until these works are finished. However, I think the game balance in this mod runs well (some exceptions are small clans in the Kanto region around Yoritomo) without the limiter. So I prefer to add rather flavour events instead of radical change on the military or economic system.

 

[GShock]

Were you able to at least balance the production of money and upgrading of provinces done by the AI?
By besieging all 5lev castles which are always garrisoned since the AI leaders don't make a lot use of Levy, the player on the offensive is really in a total handicapped fashion (add to it that in some cases the levy regenerates in a matter of a few weeks even when deployed... and you can see it rising even while you are besieging the AI province!).

Maybe you should start storming the DEVs about unlocking the secret or asking them to unlock it in mod-mode BEFORE next patch is released (could take months ...)

The events are always welcome but not being able to report on your mod yet, I can tell that the AI has almost unlimited funds, develops too quickly (and unlimited again) and produces more retinues than it should because of that. The honor achieved/lost for marriages, temples, gifts, court ranks, land titles is extremely high and offsetting. Same goes for failed/succeeded ninja actions.

Considering these problems, your modding changes in these segments would render the sow dissent option really a good one. Currently, you're more effective (at least in the short term!) when plotting by using the dishonor mission (because sow dissent is too slow). The target's honor dropping will ensure ALL his vassals are up for participating into a plot you started, while sowing dissent will only alter one vassal's opinion (and it can't be used in concomitance with the ninja mission since the master of the art can only perform one task at a time, either sow dissent or hire ninja but not both at the same time).

In the very short term this works, alas, with unlimited funds the AI buys the ranks. With a marriage or 2 it builds some more honor, the temples do the rest, and that's how blobbing happens and big clans become unstoppable (their honor keeps rising and rising)... especially since in the military aspects you are handicapped by the no levy reset bug (which was squashed and I can't understand what the hell they are waiting for to release the patch!) and heavy expenses for your levy recruitment while the AI has all castles fully garrisoned and at lev5 (at least!) building upgrade.

Can you do something about these issues with modding? Else, it's the game that's faulty whatever mod and without any mod is the same unfortunately.
Don't worry... it's sunday. I need to swap dst/spd/cad instruments on my 2 bikes and then I'll install and play Genpei mod today.

 

[chatnoir17]

Were you able to at least balance the production of money and upgrading of provinces done by the AI?
By besieging all 5lev castles which are always garrisoned since the AI leaders don't make a lot use of Levy, the player on the offensive is really in a total handicapped fashion (add to it that in some cases the levy regenerates in a matter of a few weeks even when deployed... and you can see it rising even while you are besieging the AI province!).

Do your AI vassals also that levy bug? If yes, you need to eat small clans, make some vassals and use this bug.
Honestly speaking, I won't do anything against this bug. If I make the limitter and the bug is fixed (and the developers said that they have done the job), I must fix this limitter again.

Maybe you should start storming the DEVs about unlocking the secret or asking them to unlock it in mod-mode BEFORE next patch is released (could take months ...)

I have reported some wishes about the moddability which I think they should be in game. However, you can ask additional features too. You and I are both users of this game and there is no limitation, and I won't take a roll of the "customer service" between you and the developers. This would make a complicated situation...

The events are always welcome but not being able to report on your mod yet, I can tell that the AI has almost unlimited funds, develops too quickly (and unlimited again) and produces more retinues than it should because of that.

The simplist way is extend the building time of these developments. Of course, you will suffer from this long building time, though.

Considering these problems, your modding changes in these segments would render the sow dissent option really a good one. Currently, you're more effective (at least in the short term!) when plotting by using the dishonor mission (because sow dissent is too slow). The target's honor dropping will ensure ALL his vassals are up for participating into a plot you started, while sowing dissent will only alter one vassal's opinion (and it can't be used in concomitance with the ninja mission since the master of the art can only perform one task at a time, either sow dissent or hire ninja but not both at the same time).

I have no expert of modding ninja missions, but I will try it.

In the very short term this works, alas, with unlimited funds the AI buys the ranks.

In my mod, the ranks cost more money to buy. Owning large territory is also a requirement of the ranks. For example, the highst rank requires 500 money and owning 100 provinces. I will check the religious bonus too.

 

[GShock]

Do your AI vassals also that levy bug? If yes, you need to eat small clans, make some vassals and use this bug.
Honestly speaking, I won't do anything against this bug. If I make the limitter and the bug is fixed (and the developers said that they have done the job), I must fix this limitter again.

Building limiter has nothing to do with this bug, it's because of historicity and realism but it does have a second side not to be underestimated. Without the constant building in the provinces, there's also NO -70% income modifier.

 

[chatnoir17]

Another idea for the limitation.

If I set the building time to the next level 365000 days and make an event which fires in certain conditions (province flag about the geography, character stats, etc) and reduces these period drastically, I can make the de facto limitation.

 

[GShock]

Another idea for the limitation.

If I set the building time to the next level 365000 days and make an event which fires in certain conditions (province flag about the geography, character stats, etc) and reduces these period drastically, I can make the de facto limitation.

That would help a lot, but I was thinking something else.
Duplicate the images and building times of each construction slot at 1st level. This means at level 2 it takes you double the time to have the SAME castle (no upgrade happens because the bonuses are the same and the image is also the same).
At level 3 you triplicate (effectively making it x6 from level 1) use the second image and use the 1st tier bonus.
At level 4 you quintuplicate the level 3 (making it x30 from level 2) use the second image again but use 2nd tier bonus.
At level 5 you DECA the level 3 (x300 from level 3) use the third image and the 3rd tier bonus.
Levels 6, 7 and higher, leave the same construction times as level five but HALVE the cumulative bonus with each using the remaining images (4th and above).

That ensures that the AI will upgrade very slowly but still do while the castles are not so demanding with the assault forces (reminder: currently the AI takes no attrition toll) so that you can actually starve the garrison in few months rather than stay there for years and years).

Something like that, it's even possible to just use the very same 5th image and add no further bonuses thus making the eventual upgrades totally useless gamewise (no bonus, no changes, useless expenses). Either option (including yours) is viable, we just need to see how the AI reacts (shouldn't be a problem if I guess correctly).

Basically, by using the same images in the slots and removing the bonuses for tech levels (both branches) the de facto limitation would still be in effect.

 

[chatnoir17]

That would help a lot, but I was thinking something else.
Duplicate the images and building times of each construction slot at 1st level. This means at level 2 it takes you double the time to have the SAME castle (no upgrade happens because the bonuses are the same and the image is also the same).
At level 3 you triplicate (effectively making it x6 from level 1) use the second image and use the 1st tier bonus.
At level 4 you quintuplicate the level 3 (making it x30 from level 2) use the second image again but use 2nd tier bonus.
At level 5 you DECA the level 3 (x300 from level 3) use the third image and the 3rd tier bonus.
Levels 6, 7 and higher, leave the same construction times as level five but HALVE the cumulative bonus with each using the remaining images (4th and above).

We can use only one image for a slot. If you add a new image and building, you have to change the interface.

Oh, I must say you should try this mod to check the army speed. With your suggestion I have changed the speed x3.

 

[GShock]

We can use only one image for a slot. If you add a new image and building, you have to change the interface.

I know.
What I mean is to use the same image type on more slots so that it takes multiple enhancement to finally reach the tech. Probably you'll need to rename the image filename.
But as I said, you use castle1 and castle1b for Levs 1 and Lev2 (same picture) and so on (refer to previous post).

Oh, I must say you should try this mod to check the army speed. With your suggestion I have changed the speed x3.

Installed and launching.

 

[chatnoir17]

I know.
What I mean is to use the same image type on more slots so that it takes multiple enhancement to finally reach the tech. Probably you'll need to rename the image filename.

Do you mean that castles and villeges in the game should have over 8 slots? If so, it requires changing the interface.

 

[GShock]

Do you mean that castles and villeges in the game should have over 8 slots? If so, it requires changing the interface.

Both have 10 slots but I am saying to use the same picture (renamed) for multiple slots so it takes multiple upgrades to reach the real one.
In the aforementioned example, the black and white picture of the 1st castle is the same as the second but you need to do the 1st before you can do the second. Once the second is completed the upgrade triggers.

I am astonished by the clan divisions and accurate names of Genpei mod. Compliments.
I think the siege progress times are extremely slow. 1250 retinue would cut to pieces a lev1 garrison of 250. Make sure they can survive for no longer than 3 months but even if the attacker doesn't need 3 months to starve them out, they would be cut to pieces in the assault. So, faster siege progress, less defensive bonus to lev1 castle.

BTW if the traits are in japanese I think too few would be able to read them. Hard to pick a good wife things being what they are... I think the vanilla icons for traits are "international" and good.

 

[chatnoir17]

Both have 10 slots but I am saying to use the same picture (renamed) for multiple slots so it takes multiple upgrades to reach the real one.
In the aforementioned example, the black and white picture of the 1st castle is the same as the second but you need to do the 1st before you can do the second. Once the second is completed the upgrade triggers.

Sorry, I am not sure what is the difference between your idea and my longer construction time idea. The limit of the slot is 8 (please check it again) and it is hard to me to expand this limit.

I am astonished by the clan divisions and accurate names of Genpei mod. Compliments.

Thanks. The representation of the accurate clans and characters are my highst priority. There are still some works around them.

I think the siege progress times are extremely slow. 1250 retinue would cut to pieces a lev1 garrison of 250. Make sure they can survive for no longer than 3 months but even if the attacker doesn't need 3 months to starve them out, they would be cut to pieces in the assault. So, faster siege progress, less defensive bonus to lev1 castle.

I think the tempo of the siege is slow as vanilla, but I don't know how to change it except defensive modifier. I won't add many negative modifiers, but I wll try it.

BTW if the traits are in japanese I think too few would be able to read them. Hard to pick a good wife things being what they are... I think the vanilla icons for traits are "international" and good.

Hister asked me the same thing, but sorry, I won't change it. You don't need to read them, just feel. The tooptips and colours (blue=positive, red=negative) could help you too. In addition, the vanilla icons are also not easy to understand. For example, deceitful is represented with snake icon, but who can understand the meaning at the first glance? (and I think the relation between snake and deceitful is typical for Western culture, but not in Japanese)
If you dislike them, please overwrite with the vanilla icons.

 

[GShock]

Sorry, I am not sure what is the difference between your idea and my longer construction time idea. The limit of the slot is 8 (please check it again) and it is hard to me to expand this limit.

your idea to increase construction times leaves the possibility to arrive to the 8th level indefinitely. With infinite construction times, of course we'll never get there.
My idea is a bit more complicated and works different. You said 8 slots, ok.

Let's make 4 small castle slots and 4 big castle slots.
Lev1 is start, lev 8 is end for Genpei period.

Lev1 to Lev2 nothing changes (the picture of slot 2 is the same of the picture of slot 1).
Lev2 to Lev3 = 1st castle upgrade Use second castle upgrade picture, give very small bonus to province.
Lev3 to Lev4 = nothing changes (still use again second castle upgrade picture)
Lev4 to Lev5 = small castle upgrade, give some more small bonus (i.e. more retinues, etc).
Lev5 to Lev6 to Lev7 to Lev8 = upgrade to fortress big bonus you need to upgrade 3 times (long construction times) and in between you get no bonuses. Understand that?
In this system you DO get to upgrade but the passing between one stage and the other gives no bonuses in most cases.

Thanks. The representation of the accurate clans and characters are my highst priority. There are still some works around them.

Yoritomo with just 4 kori could get 24 retinues, seems a bit too exhaggerated. Granted you can't afford so many retinues because of their cost but in my case he died and his son had just 4 retinues max. Maybe it's balancing but unrealistic. Besides, as far as I know he never commanded a single army. He was a political leader more than a military one.

I think the tempo of the siege is slow as vanilla, but I don't know how to change it except defensive modifier. I won't add many negative modifiers, but I wll try it.

Must find some way the first levels of a castle are really nothing more than wooden barricades more or less. You can starve those in less than 3 months but if the siege progresses so slowly even if we slow the upgrading of castles it will still feel ridiculously overpowered as all provinces will be this hard to capture. (In reality as I said, only very few places should even have a castle with the others having virtually not even a proper garrison... so much for the castle. No castle at all)

Hister asked me the same thing, but sorry, I won't change it. You don't need to read them, just feel. The tooptips and colours (blue=positive, red=negative) could help you too. In addition, the vanilla icons are also not easy to understand. For example, deceitful is represented with snake icon, but who can understand the meaning at the first glance? (and I think the relation between snake and deceitful is typical for Western culture, but not in Japanese)
If you dislike them, please overwrite with the vanilla icons.

Red-Blue does the job. Didn't know that. It's ok will make use and see to get used to it.
You're right the snake being deceitful it's because the snake tricked Eve into eating the apple and convincing Adam to eat it too. Thus by trickery he managed to have the first humans at his mercy out of Eden and on Earth.

 

[chatnoir17]

your idea to increase construction times leaves the possibility to arrive to the 8th level indefinitely. With infinite construction times, of course we'll never get there.
My idea is a bit more complicated and works different. You said 8 slots, ok.

Let's make 4 small castle slots and 4 big castle slots.
Lev1 is start, lev 8 is end for Genpei period.

Lev1 to Lev2 nothing changes (the picture of slot 2 is the same of the picture of slot 1).
Lev2 to Lev3 = 1st castle upgrade Use second castle upgrade picture, give very small bonus to province.
Lev3 to Lev4 = nothing changes (still use again second castle upgrade picture)
Lev4 to Lev5 = small castle upgrade, give some more small bonus (i.e. more retinues, etc).
Lev5 to Lev6 to Lev7 to Lev8 = upgrade to fortress big bonus you need to upgrade 3 times (long construction times) and in between you get no bonuses. Understand that?
In this system you DO get to upgrade but the passing between one stage and the other gives no bonuses in most cases.

I see. Changing effects of each building is quite easy. Maybe we can combine both ideas.
And I have been ignoring pictures in my plays... They are good painting, but neither better nor the best in my taste. Some buildings look like rather Chinese Pagoda or something like that. Because of this, these pictures and their descriptions mean simply the levels for me.

Yoritomo with just 4 kori could get 24 retinues, seems a bit too exhaggerated. Granted you can't afford so many retinues because of their cost but in my case he died and his son had just 4 retinues max. Maybe it's balancing but unrealistic. Besides, as far as I know he never commanded a single army. He was a political leader more than a military one.

Yes, the retainer of Yoritomo is a problem. I have no idea where the (later) Shimazu, Otomo or Date characters should be in the game, so I added them to Yoritomo's court.
About the Yoritomo modifier, it is not the best solution to represent his expansion into the Kanto region. Historically he gathered many samurai in the region, vassalized some clans and became the number 2 or 3 in Japan. I tried to replay this situation, but haven't succeeded yet. As I mentioned earlier, a decision to vassalize his neighbouring clans (with some honor cost) would be better, since he did commanded his army, but he was not a skillful tactician, rather a great politician.

 

[chatnoir17]

Ver.0.45 is released.

Change Logs for this version
- added events with the Imperial Court. The Emperor asks you some monetary help if you have a high rank.
- Your first son, heir and vassals ask you a rank.
- changed the vassal events. You can grand a court rank or money instead of land.
- added some characters and clans (the characters in the Tohoku region are finished. There are also many clans in unplayable 1333 scenario.)

 

[Hister]

Ver.0.45 is released.

Change Logs for this version
- added events with the Imperial Court. The Emperor asks you some monetary help if you have a high rank.
- Your first son, heir and vassals ask you a rank.
- changed the vassal events. You can grand a court rank or money instead of land.
- added some characters and clans (the characters in the Tohoku region are finished. There are also many clans in unplayable 1333 scenario.)

Excellent! Will fire it up now. The additions and changes seem quite a good step forward.

@GShock: Checked this thread for details on traits icons:
http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum...Genpei-War&p=13092476&viewfull=1#post13092476
As you will notice you have to take into consideration that a bad trait can have all positive modifiers. This is because of some cultural differences between our and Japanese societies.

Edit 1:
First bug report: When you hoover over the reward his loyalty with money you get a strange string text tooltip next to it.
Otherwise now I'm not getting those CTD's so far which is great!
Yoritomi gets too much boni for my taste. Have you tried with lower boni? It didn't worked for the AI? I would at least half the boni for starters.
When do you plan to add general description of the period that we discussed about?

Edit 2:
Damn, CTD again. This time a little further in the campaign. Maybe it's related to the siege?

 

[chatnoir17]

Edit:
First bug report: When you hoover over the reward his loyalty with money you get a strange string text tooltip next to it.
Otherwise now I'm not getting those CTD's which is great!
Yoritomi gets too much boni for my taste. Have you tried with lower boni? It didn't worked for the AI? I would at least half the boni for starters.
When do you plan to add general description of the period that we discussed about?

I need some localization descriptions.
I will change the bonus lower. However, it is not the final decision. I am waiting for the next patch and the change about the moddability.
As I said, the bookmark description can't show long text. I can create a starting event (not a "look Wikipedia event" ), though my motivation is not so high in comparison with other issues.

 

[chatnoir17]

Edit 2:
Damn, CTD again. This time a little further in the campaign. Maybe it's related to the siege?

I don't know. If you get this CTD again in the same year, it should not be random accident.