Yesterday should have been a dev diary day, but I forgot that May 1 is actually some sort of Red holiday, and turning up to work gets you lined up against a wall and shot. However, this is not the time to discuss the mysterious idols, totems and faiths of the previous century. Let us instead think back much further, to simpler - if no less bloody - times, before Socialist May Day, before Christian Walpurgis Night, when the bonfires blazed for the Old Gods...

To begin with, religious Moral Authority has been revamped. The base value is now determined by the number of Holy Sites under the control of the religion. On top of this, there are various timed modifiers (think character opinions) for things like winning or losing holy wars, or building temples. This new system applies to all religions, not just the pagans. The pagan religions do tend to start with fewer Holy Sites under their control, but on the other hand there are no pagan heresies to worry about.



Now, as mentioned in previous dev diaries, pagans enjoy a number of advantages, but they also suffer from some frustrating limitations. Foremost, perhaps, is that they are stuck with Gavelkind. Pagan vassals are also a lot more suspicious of new rulers on succession (harsher "short reign" opinions), they cannot demand conversion of vassals, and they are easily impressed by the cunning missionaries of the Abrahamic religions. To avoid these problems, pagans can of course simply give up the old ways and convert, but there is another option; pagan religions can be reformed in imitation of those clever monotheists. With a proper church hierarchy, a holy book, and standardized rituals, the pagan religions can become more competitive.



Reforming the faith is not easy; you need to control three of the holy sites and have a lot of Piety to boot. After reforming, your faith will be given a religious head. In the case of Norse Pagans, the character who conducted the reformation will become the Fylkir, serving as both secular ruler and religious leader in much the same way as an Islamic Caliph. You may now declare holy wars, both great pagan Crusades and regular religious wars against infidels. Other pagan religions get a vassal religious head, like the Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople.



There are tradeoffs to reforming the faith, however. You will lose the Subjugation casus belli and the defensive home attrition, and the unreformed version of your religion will become a heresy (which can cause problems for you.) As a pagan, you will normally want to grow quickly using your invasion and subjugation CBs, and then try to either reform your religion or convert in order to consolidate and stabilize your realm...

That's all for now. Next week's topic is special pagan events and decisions!

[video=youtube;yoF84KVR9F8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoF84KVR9F8[/video]
[video=youtube_share;vYxB1O-XGk0]http://youtu.be/vYxB1O-XGk0[/video]

Bonus! Crusader Kings II: The Old Gods expansion in-depth Q&A at PC Gamer
Everything you want to know, but haven´t dared to ask?
“It’s less than a month until the longships land to bring us The Old Gods, the pagan-focused expansion for Crusader Kings II. We’ve been keeping close tabs on new details at our Viking Analysis Desk, and today, we’ve got some extra meaty details for you. Below you’ll find our massive Q&A with project lead Henrik Fåhraeus, covering everything from concubines to pagan sacred kings.”
Read the full Q&A here: http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/05/01/crusader-kings-2-the-old-gods-in-depth-qa/


Web page: http://www.crusaderkings.com
Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/Crusaderkings
Twitter: http://twitter.com/Crusaderkings

 

[balmung60]

Yes, modding this would be very easy and the pagan religions have been given unique symbols.

Thanks on both counts.

Here's an odd one, but if I'm playing as a ruling Norse Queen/Empress, can I steal a husband/mancubine like how other Norse rulers get to claim concubines?

 

[Aunel]

Thanks on both counts.

Here's an odd one, but if I'm playing as a ruling Norse Queen/Empress, can I steal a husband/mancubine like how other Norse rulers get to claim concubines?

We could capture the Basileus and get children who are heir to two empires!

 

[Melnerag]

Just read about Orthodox holy sites. They don't coincide with the Pentarchy. So..interessting. Does it mean that the Orthodox gets double M.A bonus? From holy sites AND the pentarchs?

Also. Rurik and his family. From what I saw, rulers always convert the people to their religion and culture. By the end of the game Iran is almost 100% turkish. Will there be anything to save poor Slavs from turning Norse, and instead assimilated Rurikids?

Speaking of caliphs, it would be cool if you could have rival caliphates indeed (two Sunni caliphs). And if you could become THE Caliphate. The one and only. With 'The Caliphate' written on the map over your domains. We can restore the Roman Empire, so why not the early Caliphate?

 

[Groogy]

Also. Rurik and his family. From what I saw, rulers always convert the people to their religion and culture. By the end of the game Iran is almost 100% turkish. Will there be anything to save poor Slavs from turning Norse, and instead assimilated Rurikids?

Well I found it that it is not the case here. The Slavs and Summensko are very stubborn. Incredibly so. More often your vassals revolt against you and you have to fight them if you try to stay Norse. If you are up for a challenge, make Russia a Viking Empire. I found it entertaining and difficulty.

 

[Frostschaden]

I see questions are being answered again. Could this one be answered, please?

I notice that you differentiate pagans and zoroastrians. Reminds me of one question that wasn't answered last time. Can the pagan interface be triggered separately from the other special features? For example, it wouldn't work well with the Zoroastrians, IMHO, and another religion I'm modding. It would be great if the interface wasn't hardcoded like in SoI (I had hoped back than that one would be able to mod custom interfaces for other religions).

 

[ChildeR]

Well I found it that it is not the case here. The Slavs and Summensko are very stubborn. Incredibly so. More often your vassals revolt against you and you have to fight them if you try to stay Norse. If you are up for a challenge, make Russia a Viking Empire. I found it entertaining and difficulty.

Yeah, it's difficult to have vassals of a different culture. However, replace them (or convert their heirs) and the provinces will quickly convert. I think the likely results of a Norse ruler of Slavs with some Slav vassals are 1) the whole realm converts to Norse or 2) the top liege is deposed in favor of a Slav. The top liege converting is very unlikely as the game currently stands. So I hope there are some tweaks in TOG.

 

[Groogy]

I see questions are being answered again. Could this one be answered, please?

Frankly, I don't know. I'm not going to promise anything but you might be able to do something. So you still get "no answer"

 

[Orinsul]

Any-chance you could show an example of a pagan entry in the religions common file?
So as we could get an idea of how modding will work with the new features?

 

[Groogy]

Any-chance you could show an example of a pagan entry in the religions common file?
So as we could get an idea of how modding will work with the new features?

You won't be able to mod until the DLC is released anyway, so I am not going to spoil it
Just wait for it

Edit: I weren't thinking of answering questions really, I just noticed the Rurik remark and I played a lot of Holmgardr/Rus so just thought my insight would be appreciated.

 

[Knightfall52]

No need to attack other people's ideology...

This is the internet, its cool to attack other people ideologies, mostly cause you can be frank and people are unable to physically assault you!

 

[Frostschaden]

Frankly, I don't know. I'm not going to promise anything but you might be able to do something. So you still get "no answer"

Can't you like have a quick peek in the religions.txt?

 

[Groogy]

Can't you like have a quick peek in the religions.txt?

I know how it works (I wrote part of it myself) but I am not going to say it will be the simplest thing ever. Though just straight from my head I think it is doable. But like I said I don't want to promise you anything. You could say it is semi-hardcoded
Just try it when you get a hold of your own copy That's the best answer I can give you.

 

[Talq]

Yeah, it's difficult to have vassals of a different culture. However, replace them (or convert their heirs) and the provinces will quickly convert. I think the likely results of a Norse ruler of Slavs with some Slav vassals are 1) the whole realm converts to Norse or 2) the top liege is deposed in favor of a Slav. The top liege converting is very unlikely as the game currently stands. So I hope there are some tweaks in TOG.

At the least here, Ruriks vassals are diff religion (slavic pagan) and unreformed pagans can't demand conversions. (I wonder do pagans view each other with a -10 or -30 religion modifier?). Subjegation CB does not clear vassals (and can only be used on independent realms) The Rurikids would also have to do some serious warfare westward to to reform the norse faith. Conversion, either to local pagan or Christianity suddenly seems a lot better.

Still other tweaks to make province culture less irrelevent would be helpful.

 

[Orinsul]

Could we atleast get an answer of whether or not pagan mechanics can be applied to new modded in religions and religion groups.
As investiture and patriarchs work, or whether its bound specifically like SoI mechanics?

As a great many of the big mods depend on the pagan group being divided and expanded.

 

[Frostschaden]

I know how it works (I wrote part of it myself) but I am not going to say it will be the simplest thing ever. Though just straight from my head I think it is doable. But like I said I don't want to promise you anything. You could say it is semi-hardcoded
Just try it when you get a hold of your own copy That's the best answer I can give you.

Well, if you ever find the time to make to make it more straightforward. You know, an Orthodox interface pack would make a great DLC.

 

[Groogy]

Well, if you ever find the time to make to make it more straightforward. You know, an Orthodox interface pack would make a great DLC.

I'll try to keep it in mind for whatever we do next ^^

 

[JohnKR]

Am i the only one who thinks that the holy sites for christians, catholic and orthodox, should both have rome and constantinople as a holy site? As the muslims have mecca and medina. I think its more balanced and historical than Athens ( I am from Athens and Athens was never a christian holy site or with any importance for the christian world. )

 

[Arcathias]

Kidnapped wife

One question I have yet to see in regards to the taking wives feature, will you be able to get your wife back if you are not a Norse character? Could you pull a Helen of Troy style war (sort of).

Will it be a side effect of taking prisoners from enemy forts and would she be among the prisoners if you take the fight to Scandinavia?

 

[Frostschaden]

Am i the only one who thinks that the holy sites for christians, catholic and orthodox, should both have rome and constantinople as a holy site? As the muslims have mecca and medina. I think its more balanced and historical than Athens ( I am from Athens and Athens was never a christian holy site or with any importance for the christian world. )

They explained that it links to religious authority. It wouldn't do to have both religions with such a low authority.

 

[Talq]

Am i the only one who thinks that the holy sites for christians, catholic and orthodox, should both have rome and constantinople as a holy site? As the muslims have mecca and medina. I think its more balanced and historical than Athens ( I am from Athens and Athens was never a christian holy site or with any importance for the christian world. )

You realise the sites increase your moral authority don't you? Do you seriously want Catholics and Orthodox trying to get those cities from each other every game? (Largely a Catholic problem, given treatment of the Pope is not realistic).

Also in terms of 'holiness', Catholics couldn't care less about Constantinople (outside of it remaining Christian which your idea kind of cuts across).