Last week I talked about some of the free features we're putting into the upcoming patch 2.1 (i.e. the free parts of the Rajas of India expansion.) This time, I thought I'd round that off, and next week we will finish this cycle of dev diaries with a Q&A thread!

Why not start off by talking about the promised revised decadence system that people have been clamoring for since, well, the release of Sword of Islam? Admittedly, there were many issues with Decadence; for example, the fact that all unlanded men of your dynasty generated decadence regardless of their virtue, which is strange and unrealistic. Gameplay where you automatically tend to imprison your relatives if you cannot give them land is also repetitive and, again, not very realistic. So the system needed revision, and now was the time to do it. With the new system, only characters with the new Decadent trait actually give decadence to your dynasty. Landed characters are less likely to pick up the trait, as are Zealous, Diligent and Just characters, etc. The net effect is that decadent characters are rarer but have a greater effect than before. To make it more interesting, we've removed the free imprisoning of dynasty members for Muslims. Instead, you get a chance to convince Decadent characters to straighten up. The outcome depends on your own attributes and those of the target character. If you're diplomatic, for example, he might be easier to convince. If you're learned, you might get him to go on the Hajj, which will automatically remove the Decadent trait, and so on. If you fail, you do get a reason (i.e. no opinion penalty with vassals) to imprison the character, as a last resort.



Another issue with the decadence system was that it did not really serve to encourage you to land your relatives; you just imprisoned them instead. Thus, in the event where a close relative asks you for a title, there is now a risk that he might start an adventure against you if you refuse, and this is likelier in Muslim realms. Lastly, we've increased the fracturing effects of losing a decadence revolt a bit more.

Ok, so that's the new Decadence system, which is fairly unrelated to the general theme of the expansion (although it should now be more interesting to play as a Muslim, with India to your east...) A change that was absolutely necessary with the bigger map, however, was a form of diplomatic range. We did not want Irish counts marrying Indian princesses, etc. Thus, we added a distance threshold for most diplomatic interactions, as well as for councillor jobs. It's a simple enough change, and the range also happens to be precisely right to stop Norse pagans from marrying West Africans (a pet peeve of many people, since the religions are both in the pagan group.)



What else have I got for you? Oh yes, the Steam integration stuff. We've added support for Steam Workshop and multi-player matchmaking, just like we have in Europa Universalis IV. (I predict the big mods will have some issues to sort out, however, since there seems to be a file size limit in Steam Workshop.) In a similar vein, we've also added Borderless Windowed mode. For those who don't know what that is, it's basically that the game is actually running in windowed mode, but it appears as fullscreen, so you don't have to tab out of the game; other windows can be open in front of it.



Since the save game converter to EU4 is a long-time commitment, we are of course going to support converting your very own India to EU4 as well. Jainism is thus a new religion in EU4, etc.



That's about it! There are tons and tons of other improvements, of course, but you can ask about them when we post the full change log for the Q&A thread next week.

 

[Thure]

It would be great if we would have some options in the CK2->EU4 converter. It makes little sense that my "high-tech" Zoroastrian Empire is part of the Muslim tech group.

If the tech in your realm is high, you should get the western tech, I think. At least that was the last thing I heared about it. Religion is only one factor and with low tech the important one.

 

[Aardvark Bellay]

.......... It would be great if characters (even of different realms) who fought in a battle together (on the the same side) would befriend each other in a kind of "brothers in arms" thing - similar to the +100 prestige event in battles. With higher chance in Crusades etc. .......

There are some events in campaign_events.txt, but i never recognised them firing.

Maybe with the new relations tab we will see them, respectively recognise them.
These could indeed be expanded as you suggested.
You got my vote.

campaign_events.txt

Spoiler

###########################################
#
# Campaign Events
#
# ID 6900-6999 is reserved
#
###########################################
#
# Written by Johan Andersson

#Become friendly with a fellow vassal when both at same location and we got same liege
character_event = {
id = 6900
desc = EVTDESC6900
picture = GFX_evt_battle

only_men = yes
min_age = 16
capable_only = yes
prisoner = no

trigger = {
in_command = yes
independent = no
NOT = { trait = shy }
liege = {
any_vassal = {
NOT = { character = ROOT }
in_command = yes
at_location = ROOT
NOT = { war_with = ROOT }
NOT = { trait = shy }
opinion = { who = ROOT value = -30 }
NOT = { opinion = { who = ROOT value = 30 } }
}
}
}

mean_time_to_happen = {
months = 2400
modifier = {
factor = 0.8
trait = gregarious
}
modifier = {
factor = 0.8
trait = brave
}
}

immediate = {
liege = {
random_vassal = {
limit = {
NOT = { character = ROOT }
in_command = yes
at_location = ROOT
NOT = { war_with = ROOT }
NOT = { trait = shy }
opinion = { who = ROOT value = -30 }
NOT = { opinion = { who = ROOT value = 30 } }
}
set_character_flag = campaign_friend
}
}
}

option = {
name = EVTOPTA6900
liege = {
random_vassal = {
limit = {
has_character_flag = campaign_friend
}
clr_character_flag = campaign_friend

opinion = {
modifier = campaign_friend
who = ROOT
years = 10
}
hidden_tooltip = {
character_event = { id = 6901 days = 1 }
}
}
}
}
}

#Brother in arms!
character_event = {
id = 6901
desc = EVTDESC6901
picture = GFX_evt_battle
border = GFX_event_normal_frame_war

is_triggered_only = yes

option = {
name = EVTOPTA6901
reverse_opinion = {
modifier = campaign_friend
who = FROM
years = 10
}
}
}

#Save someone's life at the battlefield... become very good friend.
character_event = {
id = 6910
desc = EVTDESC6910
picture = GFX_evt_battle

min_age = 16
only_men = yes
capable_only = yes
prisoner = no

trigger = {
in_command = yes
in_battle = yes
independent = no
NOT = { trait = craven }
NOT = { health_traits = 1 }
liege = {
any_vassal = {
NOT = { character = ROOT }
in_command = yes
in_battle = yes
at_location = ROOT
NOT = { war_with = ROOT }
NOT = { health_traits = 1 }
opinion = { who = ROOT value = -30 }
NOT = { opinion = { who = ROOT value = 30 } }
}
}

}

mean_time_to_happen = {
months = 2400
modifier = {
factor = 0.5
trait = brave
}

}
immediate = {
liege = {
random_vassal = {
limit = {
NOT = { character = ROOT }
in_command = yes
at_location = ROOT
in_battle = yes
NOT = { health_traits = 1 }
NOT = { war_with = ROOT }
opinion = { who = ROOT value = -30 }
NOT = { opinion = { who = ROOT value = 30 } }
}
set_character_flag = campaign_friend
}
}
}

option = {
name = EVTOPTA6910
liege = {
random_vassal = {
limit = {
has_character_flag = campaign_friend
}
clr_character_flag = campaign_friend
prestige = 5

opinion = {
modifier = saved_on_battlefield
who = ROOT
years = 10
}
hidden_tooltip = {
character_event = { id = 6911 days = 1 }
}
}
}
}
}

#Saved a new friend
character_event = {
id = 6911
desc = EVTDESC6911
picture = GFX_evt_battle

is_triggered_only = yes

option = {
name = EVTOPTA6911
add_trait = wounded
reverse_opinion = {
modifier = saved_him_on_battlefield
who = FROM
years = 10
}
}
}

#Become rival with a fellow vassal when both at same location and we got same liege
character_event = {
id = 6920
desc = EVTDESC6920
picture = GFX_evt_battle

only_men = yes
min_age = 16
capable_only = yes
prisoner = no

trigger = {
in_command = yes
independent = no
liege = {
any_vassal = {
NOT = { character = ROOT }
in_command = yes
at_location = ROOT
NOT = { war_with = ROOT }
opinion = { who = ROOT value = -30 }
NOT = { opinion = { who = ROOT value = 30 } }
}
}
}

mean_time_to_happen = {
months = 2400
modifier = {
factor = 0.8
trait = deceitful
}
modifier = {
factor = 0.8
trait = wroth
}

}
immediate = {
liege = {
random_vassal = {
limit = {
NOT = { character = ROOT }
in_command = yes
at_location = ROOT
NOT = { war_with = ROOT }
opinion = { who = ROOT value = -30 }
NOT = { opinion = { who = ROOT value = 30 } }
}
set_character_flag = campaign_friend
}
}
}

option = {
name = EVTOPTA6920
liege = {
random_vassal = {
limit = {
has_character_flag = campaign_friend
}
clr_character_flag = campaign_friend

opinion = {
modifier = campaign_rival
who = ROOT
years = 5
}
hidden_tooltip = {
character_event = { id = 6921 days = 1 }
}
}
}

}
}

#Gained a rival
character_event = {
id = 6921
desc = EVTDESC6921
picture = GFX_evt_battle

is_triggered_only = yes

option = {
name = EVTOPTA6921
reverse_opinion = {
modifier = campaign_rival
who = FROM
years = 5
}
}
}

 

[Elenhil]

No, but if you're the same culture and religion, you get a bonus.

I really wish you took the spread of cultures into account. The Nordic culture, for example, was, as you undoubtedly know, once spread so wide it facilitated contacts anywhere between Ireland and Rus (or, indeed, the Irish themselves welcoming at least some Middle Eastern monks into their monasteries). It would be a pity if abstract geographic distances would supersede the amazing factual historic interconnectedness our world enjoyed long before the Internet.

 

[theKing1988]

I really wish you took the spread of cultures into account. The Nordic culture, for example, was, as you undoubtedly know, once spread so wide it facilitated contacts anywhere between Ireland and Rus (or, indeed, the Irish themselves welcoming at least some Middle Eastern monks into their monasteries). It would be a pity if abstract geographic distances would supersede the amazing factual historic interconnectedness our world enjoyed long before the Internet.

The problem is that the game engine creates a whole host of other a-historical problems if you follow history completely to the letter on this issue.

Some a-historical leaps have to be taken to improve the overall outcome imo.

 

[cybrxkhan]

County religion is not the whole story (see Pecheneg vassals for example), so was not writing it off as totally impossible option. Afghanistan could have one for example or even Samanids as de-jure Khiva is still fully Zoroastrian, one Buddhist county aside.

Hell, I would not mind having those two Manichean Pechenegs moved to new duchies near Tarim basin. My knowledge of Manichean history is limited but they appear to be more accurate place for them than Russian steppe and I assume they are not historical characters anyway. Kirghiz would probably be good place for one.

Anyone else here think the same way?

For the Pechenegs it appears a number of Pechenegs were Manichean, among other things, so the devs somehow knew about this. See this thread here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?741767-MiniMod-Manichaean-Pechenegs

However, as you indeed say their main center around the 867 start would've been the Tarim Basin. THe Uighur Empire, which had just recently collapsed, was one of the few states to adopt Manicheism as its state religion, and its Uighur successor states in the Tarim Basin and Dzungaria would've certainly been Manichean - I'm less certain whether the other nomad peoples around them, including the ones that revolted and overthrew them, were Manichean, as the death of the Uighur Empire meant essentially the death of the only state sponsorship of Manicheism. Even in the successor states of the Uighur Empire, there seems to have been to a conversion of Buddhism rather noticeably; by the 1066 start these successor states were definitely Buddhist. However still in the 867 start if the Tarim Basin proper is ever added - with places like the silk road cities of Kashgar and Khotan - they should mainly be Manichean with a healthy mix of some Buddhist, as the Tarim Basin was also a centre of Buddhism even before it supplanted Manicheism as the chief religion of the Uighurs during the medieval era.



As for Afghanistan and the eastern Iranian world, in 867 there is a decent case for making some parts Buddhist, Hindu, and Manichean, though 867 is sort of the twilight years of these groups in the region, so to speak.

 

[Damarrocarion]

However, as you indeed say their main center around the 867 start would've been the Tarim Basin. THe Uighur Empire, which had just recently collapsed, was one of the few states to adopt Manicheism as its state religion, and its Uighur successor states in the Tarim Basin and Dzungaria would've certainly been Manichean.

That's what I had in mind. So I think moving one of the Pechenegs to Kirghiz or creating a new ruler there would not be entirely laughable idea, unless historical sources prove otherwise. In the current map, both Kirghiz and Zhetusy appear to be within limits of now-collapsed Uyghur empire.

As for Afghanistan and the eastern Iranian world, in 867 there is a decent case for making some parts Buddhist, Hindu, and Manichean, though 867 is sort of the twilight years of these groups in the region, so to speak.

Naturally, but what else we want than interesting starting options for this wonderful game?

 

[mrout]

What happened to that bright awesome purple of the Kingdom of Armenia? Now it's a boring brown much like anywhere else already in the map...

That's mesopotamia.

 

[cybrxkhan]

That's what I had in mind. So I think moving one of the Pechenegs to Kirghiz or creating a new ruler there would not be entirely laughable idea, unless historical sources prove otherwise. In the current map, both Kirghiz and Zhetusy appear to be within limits of now-collapsed Uyghur empire.

The Kirgiz and Karluks/Zhetusy were the very folks who swept down and destroyed the Uighurs. Ideally, in my opinion, they should be Tengri, while the Tarim Basin provinces (if the devs ever add them) should be Manichean. There is no evidence of widespread Manicheism among post-Uighur nomads so far as I am aware of; in fact, there is extremely little mention of Manicheans outside of southern China after the collapse of the Uighurs.

Naturally, but what else we want than interesting starting options for this wonderful game?

Yup, I'll be all for it too. The devs should've added the Zunbils as a Hindu duchy or tribal kingdom or something, with a large Buddhist populace; they also should add some Buddhist vassals to the Shahis - I mean the Hindu Shahis literally just overthrew the Buddhist rulers (who confusingly enough are also called Shahis, though the Turkishahis rather (though it is likely they were the last vestiges of the Kushans/Hephthalites rather than actual Turks per se)) so the country would not be stable. In fact, I've seen conflicting dates as to when the Hindu Shahis overthrew the Buddhist Turkishahis - I've seen it a few years after the Old Gods start, meaning another potential setup could be a Buddhist Shahi ruler, with an ambitious Hindu vassal Kallar (the one you may have saw in the stream) who controls a lot, has a claim on the title, and is poised to overthrow his liege.

And some of the Silk Road cities like Balkh/Samarkand/whatever still had sizeable Buddhist/Hindu populations until the 10th century, I've heard, so there's that too.

 

[Ozamu]

Thanks for the DD, Doomdark!

Decadence and diplomatic range aside, hopefully there'll be some improvements/new features to heresies. Gonna ask about that in the Q&A next week.

The devs should've added the Zunbils

Praise the Zoon!

 

[Rognvaldr19]

For the Pechenegs it appears a number of Pechenegs were Manichean, among other things, so the devs somehow knew about this. See this thread here: http://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/showthread.php?741767-MiniMod-Manichaean-Pechenegs

However, as you indeed say their main center around the 867 start would've been the Tarim Basin. THe Uighur Empire, which had just recently collapsed, was one of the few states to adopt Manicheism as its state religion, and its Uighur successor states in the Tarim Basin and Dzungaria would've certainly been Manichean - I'm less certain whether the other nomad peoples around them, including the ones that revolted and overthrew them, were Manichean, as the death of the Uighur Empire meant essentially the death of the only state sponsorship of Manicheism. Even in the successor states of the Uighur Empire, there seems to have been to a conversion of Buddhism rather noticeably; by the 1066 start these successor states were definitely Buddhist. However still in the 867 start if the Tarim Basin proper is ever added - with places like the silk road cities of Kashgar and Khotan - they should mainly be Manichean with a healthy mix of some Buddhist, as the Tarim Basin was also a centre of Buddhism even before it supplanted Manicheism as the chief religion of the Uighurs during the medieval era.



As for Afghanistan and the eastern Iranian world, in 867 there is a decent case for making some parts Buddhist, Hindu, and Manichean, though 867 is sort of the twilight years of these groups in the region, so to speak.

That's some cool stuff, I didn't realise Manichean-ism was so prevalent, or that the steppe tribes liked a bit of Buddhism.

 

[Summercat]

Would this prevent my Irish Duke marrying a Byzantine Princess? D:

 

[darthfanta]

Still no reason to maintain a large family as a Muslim. Imagine the micromanagement nightmare of having to deal with several hundred family member personally. Ideally, only the decadence of CLOSE family members and yourself should affected the decadence of the realm.

 

[MartinSWE]

I love how the new decadence mechanism sounds and for those thinking it might be easy to control consider the following:

1. No free imprisonments of non-decadent dynasty characters means that you might soon be swarmed by male dynasty members looking for titles.
2. Since there is supposedly a bigger risk that you get dynasty members invading your realm (adventurers) if you refuse them a title it will lead to constant civil wars if you continue the old habit of not landing dynasty members.
3. If you choose to land them in order to roleplay and getting less civil wars they will continue spawning new dynasty members and the issue in Point 1 will be worse.

I also wonder if a muslim head of dynasty will be able to straighten up every dynasty member, even those at other courts within the realm, because if they can´t you might soon have a big problem if to many dynasty members have lands of their own and refuse to straighten up their own children.

 

[cybrxkhan]

That's some cool stuff, I didn't realise Manichean-ism was so prevalent, or that the steppe tribes liked a bit of Buddhism.

Manicheism is basically the only world religion to go extinct. It once stretched from Britain to Mongolia, was born in Mesopotamia and mysteriously died out in southern China in the 17th century (maybe). It's story is quite fascinating.

As for the steppe tribes religion varied from tribe to tribe, and they were in general a very diverse lot, and overall more tolerant than the usual for the era (to an extent, usually). The group of close advisors and companions Genghis Khan had, for instance, consisted of Nestorian Christians, Muslims, Tengriists/Pagans, Buddhists, and Taoists, and they were willing to be loyal to each other despite their differences. Tibetan Buddhism eventually emerged as the dominant religion among the Mongols (rather those still in Mongolia) by the 16th to 17th century.

 

[soda7777777]

I have a question about the converter. Why aren't the Miaphysite provinces being converted to Miaphysite in EUIV? I don't know if that have been asked and answered already :unsure:

+1.

 

[DominusNovus]

Because, presently, EU4's Orthodoxy represents both the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox Churches, as well as, likely now, the Nestorian Church of the East.

 

[JosunUrashima]

How rude, now I can't accidentally spread the reformed Norse faith to Africa just through marrying Africans

 

[theKing1988]

Because, presently, EU4's Orthodoxy represents both the Eastern Orthodox and Oriental Orthodox Churches, as well as, likely now, the Nestorian Church of the East.

Shouldn't it be split then?

It's never to late to improve the converter

 

[superskierpat]

Thanks for the DD, Doomdark!

Decadence and diplomatic range aside, hopefully there'll be some improvements/new features to heresies. Gonna ask about that in the Q&A next week.



Praise the Zoon!

I'm making a note of the Zunbils for ACR xD

 

[Katsue]

And some of the Silk Road cities like Balkh/Samarkand/whatever still had sizeable Buddhist/Hindu populations until the 10th century, I've heard, so there's that too.

Nuristan's inhabitants adhered to a polytheistic religion until forcibly converted by Abdur Rahman Khan in the late 19th Century.