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* CKII: Charlemagne Developer Diaries will be released weekly on Wednesdays from now on up to release! *

Welcome to the Charlemagne dev diaries - and above all, welcome to the 8th century!

I'm Tobias Bodlund, scripter on the Crusader Kings II team, and in this first installment of the dev diaries for CKII: Charlemagne I will be talking about the new 769 start date and how we've chosen to represent that historical period in the game.

We've added a bunch of new cultures to the game. A few of these could arguably have been present in The Old Gods already, but going back to 769 we felt we really needed to shake up the map to properly represent the changing cultural landscape of the Early Middle Ages.

sw_eur_cult.png

In Spain we have the Visigoths, and they are in the Iberian rather than the Germanic group, since the Gothic migrations are long since over and they have been living in the peninsula since the early 6th century. With time, Visigothic provinces are likely to eventually become Castilian, Catalan or Andalusian depending on location and which other religious and cultural influences they are subjected to. In northwestern Iberia we also still have the Suebi, an old Germanic people. They have their own culture shift events which may see the rise of Portuguese culture.

Looking north, we have the Franks. They are still Germanic but becoming more and more latinized. You will see them slowly turning into something we call "French"...

Other new cultures you will find are Saxons, Lombards, Picts and Somali. Also, there are no Russians yet, but instead various East Slavic peoples such as the Ilmenians, Severians and Volhynians.

We've revisited cultural dynamics in some other places as well. For example, the emergence of Norman culture is now somewhat more likely than before.

Regarding religion, the old Norse religion in the game is now referred to as Germanic. We decided to do this because with the earlier start date this religion exists well beyond Norse lands (specifically, the Saxons), and the old name also sometimes caused players to confuse it with Norse culture.

Moving further south, the Ibadi faith is now its own religion and no longer a Sunni heresy.

We've also added a new pagan religion, available only in the Charlemagne start. They are the followers of the sun-god Zun, which was historically the Zunbil dynasty in Afghanistan. They start out surrounded by Muslims and Buddhists, and this should provide an interesting and possibly quite difficult start, comparable to the Jewish starts.

And where are the Jews in 769, you ask now - you will find them in Semien in Ethiopia (sometimes referred to as Beta Israel).

religion_map_persia.png

Oh, speaking of the Norse, yes... with the new start date the Viking Age hasn't begun yet. This means that the Norse will initially not be able to launch Viking expeditions overseas. This will change the early game for them as they'll need to focus more on local affairs initially. Don't worry, though, a few decades in things will start happening for them and the continent will properly learn to fear the wrath of the Northmen.

Finally, let's look at some of the large empires in the 8th century:

In 769, the Byzantine Empire is embroiled in what historians call the "First Iconoclasm". This basically means that the emperor and patriarch (and most of the elite) follow the Iconoclast faith, where religious icons are condemned as idolatry much like in Islam. There is a choice for the emperor to either stick with Iconoclasm or renounce it (via a special decision).

Meanwhile, the Abbasids are the great blob of the 8th century. During this time, they historically ruled an area from the Indus in the east to the Maghreb in the west. Though "rule" is perhaps a misleading word in some cases. To reflect the fact that in reality they had limited control over many of their nominal vassals, we have made some of these areas independent in the game. But the Caliph still has plenty of de jure CBs and claims on those areas, so beware...

In Spain, Umayyad rule is fairly recently established, so you have an Arab Muslim dynasty ruling over mainly Visigothic Christian subjects.

europe_map.png

Then there is the Frankish Empire. After Pepin died, his sons Charlemagne and Carloman inherited a kind of joint kingship over the Franks, with each of them ruling directly over a portion of the kingdom. In the game, this means the two brothers each have a king title but also a claim on the other's title. With powerful neighbors such as the Lombards, the Umayyads and the pagan Saxons, things may get very interesting here.

As you can see, the world in 769 is quite different from later starts, with many period-defining events still to unfold. Things such as the Holy Roman Empire (yes, you can found it), Vikings, Normans and Russians are still unheard of. There aren't even that many Karlings yet (!).

The 8th century is a strange and wonderful place. We hope that you'll enjoy it.
 
A shame it was never a problem for the HRE or even the ERE.

You mean two of the three realms we see a weekly complaint thread on how OP they are?

Getting back to the serious: the Abbasid's next step is Anatolia in all of my 867 campaigns that they succeed in gaining Armenia .. I don't think the ai will be changed for CM.
 
It not being Abbasid at the beginning is huge - a populated mountainous region independent of either on the border of both allows a lot of different outcomes to be possible. If it was Abbasid, they would soon be driving hard into Anatolia from Persia with more strength then they had in reality.
You know what could be nice? If something like crown authority could be made specific for regions of de jure territory of the next rank down, instead of bein generalized across the entire de jure kingdom or empire. That way you could model the imperial crown having a weaker hold over far off or newly conquered territory. Or heck, make something similar to the tribal vassal system for feudal realms, that works like vassals work in EU4, to represent a far off vassal's nominal loyalty to his liege, but his de facto independence. If these nominal vassals are not directly included in your borders, like in EU4, it could prevent that issue of blobs conquering further out too fast, before they solidify their grip on their current holdings. It could even be used as a reason to move past medium CA, if it is required to bring those vassals fully into your realm. (Ideally, at the zero CA level, all feudal vassals would work like loyal tribals, with low/medium needed to get de jure vassals to work as they do now, and high/max to get non de jure vassals to do so.)
 
How easy would that be to mod in?
Very easy. I've done it a few times before, but thats beside the point.

Independent Carantania existed like 30 years before the start date and they were Bavarian/Frankish vassals after. Carantanians lived in what is now southern and eastern Austria as well, but its all German cultured in the game.
 
how can you have Middle Francia without both western and eastern Francia ?
 
Why? The area is part of Gascony, which was during this time period more or less settled by peoples more closely related culturally to the Basques. Making it "Occitan" wouldn't be accurate.

No, they were very different and even ennemies from time to time. I can't really say if they were more Frankish or Occitan tho
 
You know what could be nice? If something like crown authority could be made specific for regions of de jure territory of the next rank down...

The "Border Marches" idea would be ideal gameplay-wise. Historically, arguments could be made that these should not be represented outside of Frankish cultured realms, however, another argument could be made that there were situations close enough to "simulate" their existence everywhere.

One major thing that I wish Paradox would work on is the ability of Islamic based realms to raid. That area of the map was very much under constant raiding from the Islamic tribes and right now none of that conflict is represented in the game.

Edit:
Very easy. I've done it a few times before, but thats beside the point.

Independent Carantania existed like 30 years before the start date and they were Bavarian/Frankish vassals after. Carantanians lived in what is now southern and eastern Austria as well, but its all German cultured in the game.

I totally agree with you - yet if Bavarian culture is subsumed into "German" as is the case currently shown, why would Carantanians have their separate culture?
 
What I meant is that the lombards were the rulers and the dominant class in Italy but there never was a "lombardization" of territories or people, or at least not as big as depicted in this DLC. In fact the "edictum rothari", still active since 743 A.D., stated that roman people must follow ancient roman law and lombards people must follow lombard law.
And sorry for my english, I'm Italian.

Of course, but by the reign of Liutprand (first half of the eighth century) the definition of "Lombards" had been extended to all the subjects of the kingdom; a true assimilation was starting to happen. But then, Charlie happened. I really wouldn't dislike calling the base culture in Italy "Italic", the culture of the rulers "Langobardic", and keeping "Lombard" and "Italian" as evolution cultures coming from having or not having Langobardic rulers above the Italic population.
 
I also think that instead of Bohemian culture it should be Moravian culture, later creating great moravia, and much better representing moravian and slovak people that find it's roots here, duchy of morava and duchy of nitra creating Great moravia
 
According to De Administrando Imperio South Slavs were mostly converted to Christianity soon after arrival of Croats and Serbs in the first half of 7th century, at least the ruling elite was. Exception are the Narentines. Full conversion came later but Christianity was certainly present.
Trusting only that source is a really stupid idea, especially considering we have evidence that Cyril and Methodius made a pagan temple on Hum (note: far from the Narentines) into a Christian church.

I totally agree with you - yet if Bavarian culture is subsumed into "German" as is the case currently shown, why would Carantanians have their separate culture?
Because they are currently fused into Croats, which are, during the Middle Ages, a different group of Slavs.
 
You mean two of the three realms we see a weekly complaint thread on how OP they are?

Getting back to the serious: the Abbasid's next step is Anatolia in all of my 867 campaigns that they succeed in gaining Armenia .. I don't think the ai will be changed for CM.

Where are the ahistorical and gamey nerf on the HRE and the ERE ?? Did I miss something ??

Edit: And just to clarify the 867 abassids situation is the same as 769 a gamey nerf. It's like making italy independent for the HRE yet I don't see the HRE ahistorically dismanttled or the ERE
 
Okay, one question that has plagued me ever since the DLC was announced: Can we play as any of the 12 peers? Ogier the Dane Christianizing Denmark could make for a good play, I think.
 
Of course, but by the reign of Liutprand (first half of the eighth century) the definition of "Lombards" had been extended to all the subjects of the kingdom; a true assimilation was starting to happen. But then, Charlie happened. I really wouldn't dislike calling the base culture in Italy "Italic", the culture of the rulers "Langobardic", and keeping "Lombard" and "Italian" as evolution cultures coming from having or not having Langobardic rulers above the Italic population.
That's exactly what I was thinking. Just like the normans in England.
 
Also, as far as I'm aware, there shouldn't be Breton culture in Nantes. It should be Frankish.

Then Rennes shouldn't be Breton either.

In details however, toponyms show that breton speaking people have settled in these area, as far as what the "suburbs" of Nantes were in these times, and they were in expension within the Breton March. Near Nantes (the city), they were surely not the majority of the population but they were numerous enough to influence the way some places were named, and still are today.

So yeah, they could make the counties of Nantes and Rennes frankish or keep the breton culture for convenience. Both cultures and languages have coexisted here and some other places of Brittany anyway.

By the way, Vannes was in the Breton March too.
 
According to De Administrando Imperio South Slavs were mostly converted to Christianity soon after arrival of Croats and Serbs in the first half of 7th century, at least the ruling elite was. Exception are the Narentines. Full conversion came later but Christianity was certainly present.

Yes, to a very meager extent. I already wrote about that; it's to be solved with coastal provinces being Christian.

Also, the Christianization came from Rome. For at least one thing, it raises the question why are Serbs Eastern Orthodox instead of Roman Catholic.
But everyone knows that, while Christianity might've had some presence, the vast majority's pagan.
 
especially considering we have evidence that Cyril and Methodius made a pagan temple on Hum (note: far from the Narentines) into a Christian church.

Mentioning Cyril and Methodius, I think it would be very nice to have their mission as an event in game, considering that old slavic language was 4th language into which bible was translated. Would be nice to spread christianity slavic way, this mission might have bonuses for spreading christianity into slavic regions