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Conclave Dev Diary #1

Hi folks, I hope you have all had a nice and relaxing holiday! However, just in case you didn’t, let me take the edge off your existential angst with some soothing talk about the next expansion for Crusader Kings II; a little thing we eventually decided to call Conclave...

As you know, most of CK2’s expansions have “widened” the gameplay by unlocking new regions of the map and making various religions playable. You can now start the game in widely different cultural spheres for a great variety of different experiences; “Fifty Shades of Dark”, if you will. Meanwhile, we have gradually improved the core gameplay in patches (e.g. the technology system), but rarely in any radical way. Whenever we did try to “deepen” the core gameplay in an expansion, it often turned out to be a mistake: The Retinue mechanic of Legacy of Rome should, for example, have been a part of the base game so we could have kept building upon it.

Even so, it is high time that we addressed some of the major shortcomings of the strategy game that underpins the RPG experience. In particular, CK2 suffers from a kind of inverse difficulty progression; it is hard in the beginning and easy in the mid-to-late game. This is a great shame, because one of the main points of the whole feudal hierarchy mechanic - the need to rely on vassals - was to make it hard to maintain stable large Realms. So, my first and foremost intention with Conclave was to increase the challenge of the mid-to-late game. This was the general plan of action:

  • Reduce the “positive opinion inflation” of vassals vs their liege. (We ended up cutting many important positive opinion modifiers in half.)
  • Highlight the most powerful vassals by making them strongly desire a Council seat.
  • Give the Council more power without reducing player agency. (You are free to disregard the Council’s suggestions, but this will have ramifications on Factions. More on this later...)
  • Introduce Infamy and Coalitions against aggressively expanding Realms.
  • Improve the alliance mechanic to make it a more intentional choice. (A royal marriage is now simply a non-aggression pact. Alliance is the second step, but still requires a marriage.)
  • Improve the diplomatic AI in order to contain “blobs” (with the help of the above Alliance and Coalition systems.)
  • Bring the military AI to a whole new level.
  • Make it harder to quickly win wars through one or two major engagements. (Hence, we reduced the bloodiness of battles overall, introduced “shattered retreats” and made armies reinforce in friendly territory.)
Crusader Kings II - Conclave - Obligations.jpg


Thus, the features of Conclave and the accompanying patch are a combination of internal and external measures to make blobbing harder. This intention had ripple effects on other mechanics. For example, malcontents now tend to gang up into fewer but more powerful Factions, and we reworked the Law Screen while we were adding the new Council Power laws.

Crusader Kings II - Conclave - Council.jpg


We also took this opportunity to address an unrelated weakness in the game, namely the education of children. If you have the expansion, that whole experience should now be more interesting…

That’s all for now, stay tuned for the details!
 
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I'm really looking forward to Conclave. It sounds like it will be doing interesting things. However if one of the objectives is to make the mid-to-late game harder I'm wondering why you are not looking into dynastic divisions and cadet branches. Something to keep your dynasty from simply getting bigger and bigger.
 
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Oh get over yourself, you paid to have the feature for years does it bother you that much that it may become free later on. Itäs really no diffrent than games becomming cheaper over time.


As I understand it Vlad was mostly just cruel to his enemies. And even that reputation has been greatly exxagerated later.
I still paid for it. So don't tell me to get over myself. My money, my right to my opinion.
 
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I hope this new content won't turn the game into endless quests for pleasing your vassals,who will still turn out to be backstabbing and unsupportive jerks. Also hopefully it will finally pay out to play as a loyal vassal.
 
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I hope this new content won't turn the game into endless quests for pleasing your vassals,who will still turn out to be backstabbing and unsupportive jerks. Also hopefully it will finally pay out to play as a loyal vassal.

Regularly loyal vassals wouldn't be historically accurate. Even siblings/blood relatives weren't loyal to each other, like the family of Henry II or Odo of Bayeux.
 
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I hope this new content won't turn the game into endless quests for pleasing your vassals,who will still turn out to be backstabbing and unsupportive jerks.
The Middle Ages in general?
 
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The Retinue mechanic of Legacy of Rome should, for example, have been a part of the base game so we could have kept building upon it.
Couldn't you just do like in EU4? I.e. to improve on it in an expansion and then let people owning that expansion get both retunies and the improvement? (Probably giving the improvement to people just having LoR would be easiest.)
 
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I personally bought LoR because of Rome ^^
New events, possibilty to reform the empire and so on. But yeah even if lot's of people would say they would be ok with moving retinues to the basegame, Paradox still probably wouldn't do it
There is still the silent majority, who doesn't read the forum and could get pissed, also there are probably some legal pitfalls.

That is ridiculous. There are zero legal pitfalls for giving something for free years after you charged for it.

Give away retinues, I am a LOR owner and I would be perfectly happy with NOTHING to "compensate" me for this. After all, that's the only way the feature would get any improvement, if everyone had it.
 
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Provided these have a more limited regional scope with a smaller range than a same religion marriage, IMHO that wouldn't be a bad idea.
That's a good idea. Another limit could be related to claims - daughters/sons married to a different religion ruler couldn't inherit or couldn't get claims on any titles they didn't inherit. Something along those lines. But you could get a non-agression pact between religions, which is not absurd.
 
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Couldn't you just do like in EU4? I.e. to improve on it in an expansion and then let people owning that expansion get both retunies and the improvement? (Probably giving the improvement to people just having LoR would be easiest.)

Or they could keep improving retinues only for LoR owners. There is nothing stopping them, and if anything, it could bring more buyers.

On the other hand I don't get the problem with retinues becoming base game if PDS so wish. I mean, if I produce a commodity, I can decide to change it's prize over time, right? Like changing it to exactly 0€, yes? What's of illegitimate in it? I don't get it.

Anyway, as I said wlsewhere, this expansion seem to have only the major feature of council overhaul and the medium feature of education overhaul, there rest so far has been patch work. I wonder how this will impat the price tag.

(Also, it seems that they are creating a problem in vanilla (more unruly vassals) and giving the solution only on the DLC (satisfy vassals with council roles with its new powers. I hope this isn't LoR all over again, in that respect.
 
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I sure hope this thing works, being the "Good" guy is just too easy, have the best traits and everyone will love you currently! No threat except during regencies...
 
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It is actually a fairly easy solution to people who paid for it complaining. Turn around and make LoR a free DLC after a set time. They could do it tomorrow and no one could really complain.

Sure you paid for it, but that was before, it is now free.

Would they do this? Who knows.
 
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If retinues become part of he base game I want back the money I paid for LoR.

I wouldn't mind that much, but if they did, it would be nice if they added more unique events and/or a co-emperor mechanic as replacements. Retinues in the dlc rather than the patch always struck me as a strange decision, I suspect it was a way to hook those uninterested in playing the Byz empire to buy it(similar to national focus in EUIV's Res Publica dlc)

I wish LoR had more unique events, are there more than the Greek fire, riots and chariot races ones?
 
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  • Make it harder to quickly win wars through one or two major engagements. (Hence, we reduced the bloodiness of battles overall, introduced “shattered retreats” and made armies reinforce in friendly territory.)

This is actually one thing I liked about ck2 the most, that you can quickly win battles, compared to the slow way you win wars in EUIV:
 
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That's a shame, I wish retinue could be made better or/and expanded. I won't mind making it part of regular game, I am sure most of community will be fine too.
This right here. I don't even see why you couldn't just expand upon it already as it is. The EU4 team just did a badly needed reworking of the random new world feature from a previous expansion. If all you're hoping for is to simply expand on the retinue system I don't see why you couldn't just do something similar.
Even if you wanted to bind it with pre-existing mechanics. I don't think the community would have too many objections against making it a base game feature. Maybe throw something new in for the legacy of rome to silence any minimal dissent on the issue.
 
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That is ridiculous. There are zero legal pitfalls for giving something for free years after you charged for it.

Give away retinues, I am a LOR owner and I would be perfectly happy with NOTHING to "compensate" me for this. After all, that's the only way the feature would get any improvement, if everyone had it.

Let's say you just bought it yesterday because of retuines. And today they make it for free... Wouldn't you be pissed of? It's not easy to make something free after you sell it for money.

So, AE is now going in the DLC so I can leave it on the shelf instead of being forced into it?

AE is in the patch...
 
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