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EU4 - Development Diary - 14th of April 2016

Hello everyone, and welcome to another development diary for Europa Universalis IV. Today we’ll focus a bit on Mare Nostrum, and what was the goal of the features in that expansion and the accompanying patch.


Improve the Naval aspect of the game
The Naval game is something that has received quite a few complaints over the year, so we really wanted to make an expansion on the naval theme.

Some of the features like Sailors and the Combat Tweaks were just too much of a rework of core concepts that they had to go into the free patch.

We’re rather happy with how the naval combat now works, now that quality actually matters, and it is no longer just about who has the most money to maintain the most heavy-ships.

The Naval Missions, and the Repair mechanics was based on our experiences of the Hearts of Iron IV development, and how much more fun it made the naval game, to avoid constant micromanagement. It was one of the main features we built the exoansion around.

The changes to making blockades more visible, and having Admirals that could be good at blockading was a few free features that have proved to be a success as well.


More Peacetime Activities
After Art of War there has been a constant barrage of requests for more peace-time activities. Pretty much every expansion since then have had a large focus on adding more things to do at peace time. El Dorado had exploration related mechanics, Common Sense added Development, Interaction with Subjects & Parliaments, while Cossacks had Estates and Diplomatic Feedback, not to mention all minor actions added for the all.

Mare Nostrum is no exception there, with two major systems to enhance gameplay outside of war. First of all, we reworked how espionage works for the free patch, to make it more of an interactive mechanic, and far more transparent than before. We also made Support Rebels more of a valid option, and added lots of new spy actions.

Secondly, the feature that was the biggest to develop for Mare Nostrum. The Condottieri. We designed and added this because at the end of the day fighting in eu4 is fun. It was also heavily influenced of the fact that HoI4 testing showed us it was great fun helping out in the Spanish Civil War while still building up your own nation. Of course, Eu4 was not really designed to have units checking two sets of allegiances, so the amount of work to get it to the state we have now was enormous.

It is also the only feature that has made the AI able to crush all QA within a few decades, so we had to scale it back a bit when balancing.


Regional Specific Enhacements
Every expansion we try to add unique mechanics to some part of the world, to make for more variation in gameplay.

Besides implementing a detailed map for central and east africa, with lots of new nations and ideas, we added two cool features to make some less popular countries played, while keeping to the naval theme.

There is not much to say about the Slave Raids and Trade Leagues, except that they work, they are fun, and they create diversity.


Community Requested
We also try to add in things that the community requests in each patch, and Mare Nostrum contains two such features..

Unconditional Surrender - This was requested by both SP & MP proponents, and was added to make it possible to get out wars when you have truly lost, without the opponent totally ruining your nation forever.


Timeline Mapmode - I think this feature has been requested since eu1. One of the most

Balance Related
Obviously, these are the features that tend to be not so popular.

Corruption - This solves quite a lot of balance problems, and makes for a more challenging game longterm.

States and Territories - This solves the problems of overseas mechanics which you had to work around and exploit to benefit from. It also gives greater flexibility to the player.


The teams favorites

So, what did the development team like the most from Mare Nostrum?

Condottieri won in a landslide!


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I can't believe Johan is still hanging on to this idea. Corruption hasn't solved any balance problems, instead it's tearing apart nations like the Timurids and the Qara Qoyunlu and driving every other nation into debt. This is the only patch where I've commonly seen over half of my enemy's allies decling a call to arms due to debt. Of course, the "fix" will be just to get rid of corruption for the AI, applying some ridiculous buff as they did with forts, instead of recognising a broken mechanic that doesn't make the game harder, but simply takes longer to ultimately achieve the same goals..

The AI needs to be severly improved here.
 
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The problem with corruption is how much blatantly better vassal expanding is than anything else right now.

Vassal expanding currently avoids:

Corruption.
Converting.
Rebels.
Allows you to work around hostile core creation cost in many circumstances.


It allows you to:

Take wrong-cultured land without penalties.
Take wrong-religion land without penalties.
Take land without spending any points initially, allowing you to take land much quicker than otherwise restricted by coring points.
Spend only 8 monarch points on the development, rather than the 10 of coring.

It's so much blatantly better to vassal expand than anything else right now it's a bit absurd. And the ahistoricalness of it all is at an all time high. It's at the point where expanding via coring is actually a little questionable, and the tutorial should basically be an intro to releasing, granting provinces to, and annexing vassals.


AI nations increase autonomy on every province they conquer for some stupid reason. You will have 60-100 autonomy on all their provinces when you integrate them.
 
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My only gripe is that the "Slave Raids" should really work like privateering and can be stopped or limited by ships on patrol in each trade node
 
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More Peacetime Activities
After Art of War there has been a constant barrage of requests for more peace-time activities. Pretty much every expansion since then have had a large focus on adding more things to do at peace time. El Dorado had exploration related mechanics, Common Sense added Development, Interaction with Subjects & Parliaments, while Cossacks had Estates and Diplomatic Feedback, not to mention all minor actions added for the all.

Mare Nostrum is no exception there, with two major systems to enhance gameplay outside of war. First of all, we reworked how espionage works for the free patch, to make it more of an interactive mechanic, and far more transparent than before. We also made Support Rebels more of a valid option, and added lots of new spy actions.

Secondly, the feature that was the biggest to develop for Mare Nostrum. The Condottieri. We designed and added this because at the end of the day fighting in eu4 is fun. It was also heavily influenced of the fact that HoI4 testing showed us it was great fun helping out in the Spanish Civil War while still building up your own nation. Of course, Eu4 was not really designed to have units checking two sets of allegiances, so the amount of work to get it to the state we have now was enormous.

It is also the only feature that has made the AI able to crush all QA within a few decades, so we had to scale it back a bit when balancing.
Hmm .. these are indeed "Piecetime activities", but I believe players are rather asking for "peacetime mechanics", hence mechanics actually making the game fun&challenging also during times of peace, rather than having some additional buttons to press.
Many suggestions have been made in the past: introduce family trees, populations mechanics, a revamped trade system, etc. I'm not advocating a particular mechanic here, but I want to emphasize that the character underlying these suggestions should be understood and taken serious, as it can well serve as a blueprint for the development of peacetime mechanics.
 
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Balance Related
Obviously, these are the features that tend to be not so popular.
Corruption - This solves quite a lot of balance problems, and makes for a more challenging game longterm.

Johan, can you expand on that? I am willing to have an open mind, but somehow I seem to be always missing an explanation of why it is needed.
 
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As a side note, what exactly was the intended use for that idea group's new finisher, being able to steal maps? I can't think of a single situation where it would be useful. If you are a colonizer, you can gain the ability to chart stuff out on your own with the exploration idea group on the second idea, instead of needing to finish it. And if you aren't a colonizer, then the natural spread of map knowledge is more than enough for whatever it is you are doing.

I've come across a few marginal uses for it. I've used it to find a trade node that I wanted to send a merchant to, for instance. It's also kinda nice when fighting an enemy whose territory stretches beyond your current map. Getting to see how big someone is and where their forts are before you start fighting is nice, and there's also the possibility of finding a good ally bordering your enemy on the far side.

These are marginal and not even close to being worth the opportunity cost, but it isn't a completely useless ability.
 
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It feels like corruption is nothing but a money skink that often bankrupts the player. The Tech imbalance often results in the player in a Non-western nation to not be allowed to take ideas. 200 years into a Korea game, 30-45% behind in tech, 20 new provinces and not even finished with Humanist (first idea) and 2 or 3 ideas into numbers 2 and 3 ideas. This is after spending 45 collective years in a regency. I feel that 5 techs would be a better a balance as this would allow me to finish an Idea group before I get murdered by corruption. I've had this in Western Tech as well, just not as bad. Also Bad events should happen at 10 or 20, not 5. It is way too easy to get to 5 after a war or having to spend 5 years waiting for rebels to spawn at 90% for 5 years.

Slave raiding happens WAY too much. It should at least give you a CB in addition to something you have to now take Trade ships from protecting trade to stop. If a your nation is raided, you damn well better go to war to stop it. This, in its current form feels that it is just something else to micromanage that frankly, puts me off in playing that area or plan to take over that land ASAP just to make it stop.

Separatist rebels should no longer be able to be supported by the AI after separatism is over. Having the AI support the same 4 groups of rebels so that they spawn over and over for 150 years frankly is annoying and it makes the game feel bugged. Having Rebels spawn due to support rebels with out warning feels bugged.

The Condottieri is a great idea. I have yet to get any AI player to take my army. The only time I've seen the AI take an army was on Shen's stream and he couldn't even help out. It feels like this idea is something that I'll never use because the AI won't ever take them or if they will, it is unusable because I simply can't walk there.

States are too small. Often the benefit to upgrading to a state isn't there. Lets upgrade to a state, it will cost you .5 ducts per month, oh but wait, you will make .2 ducts for this! Lets do it. Na, sorry, we loose too much money to corruption already to make this worth it. Oh but if you don't, you will have rebels every 5 years in those provinces. This idea needs more balancing. I do like it on paper, but in practice, needs a bit more fine tuning.

Map trading should tell you how many provinces you are going to get so the player will know if it is worth it. Losing 10 prestige for 1 province honestly feels like a kick in the teeth.
 
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The Naval Missions, and the Repair mechanics was based on our experiences of the Hearts of Iron IV development, and how much more fun it made the naval game, to avoid constant micromanagement. It was one of the main features we built the exoansion around.

Are the fleets patrolling the South China Sea ending up in the English Channel intended as a part of this feature?

Trade Leagues

Just my two cents, but I feel this feature is half-baked considering its full potential.
 
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So the main peacetime mechanic introduced in this patch is the ability to fight in wars whilst at peace, just admit that your team has either no idea or is otherwise unwilling to - due to the nature of EU4 - introduce deep and interesting peacetime mechanics.

Secondly, I fail to see how uneven tech and religious disunity were balance issues that needed to be addressed and even if they were, there was already penalties for religious disunity and of course for being behind on tech. Once again the solution wasn't to make admin and diplo tech more necessary, but simply to fine players for having unbalanced technology. This is problematic further because of the tech costs and maths involved depending on leaders it can be quite impossible for ROTW nations to stay balanced and furthermore, the only solution is to wait around and do basically nothing for large periods of the game - these certainly adds to the game's longevity I grant you, that is if you are enough of a masochist to continue playing. Though perhaps I'm being unfair, if you reward Paradox for introducing this dumb mechanic by buying their DLC you can then use your conduttori to fight in other people's wars whilst you're playing waiting simulator.
 
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Why Condottieri doesnt affect Power Projection when used against Rival? I've offered 30 stack to defending party (for free) just to wreck their enemy (witch was my Rival). We have crushed them totally and no PP :(
 
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I was sceptical about corruption at first but after playing a new game up to 1785 as Kilwa I didn't find it too problematic. I'm in tech lead as east african tech group (165 % more expensive tech), I've conquered pretty much everything in eastern Africa as you can see and have built up a strong presence in India and a weaker trade based operation Indochina and Polynesia. Pretty much all land is state-cored.

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I do however think that it messes a lot with religion, it's already bad to have low religious unity as it is, now it could completely break your nation. Just imagine being a reformation hotspot with even numbers of provinces divided between Catholicism, Reformed and Protestantism. It'd just simply be game over.
 
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This devdiary be like 'WE DID ALL GOOD. WE ALL LIKE IT' - cmon, it looks strange o_O

I see 2 main problems for now:
1) New mechanics work bad (as Youbar sad before here) - forts are broken, corruption kiils the AI.
2) New changes are completely ahistorical and logically unacceptable - like 'overseas' provinces near your capital and 0% authonomy 'states' in far-far distant lands possible now. Like 'My capital is in the middle of Europe, but I will make some lands in China as 'states' so they will now be more 'mine' then other 'non-state' lands in Europe. Jesus ****ing Crist...

p.s. And yeah, condotieres are realy bad for serious MP games.
 
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Hmm .. these are indeed "Piecetime activities", but I believe players are rather asking for "peacetime mechanics", hence mechanics actually making the game fun&challenging also during times of peace, rather than having some additional buttons to press.
Many suggestions have been made in the past: introduce family trees, populations mechanics, a revamped trade system, etc. I'm not advocating a particular mechanic here, but I want to emphasize that the character underlying these suggestions should be understood and taken serious, as it can well serve as a blueprint for the development of peacetime mechanics.
^This
I for one, don't want buttons to press!
Peace time currently includes: Frabricating more claims for even more war. Occasional peaceful vassalization
Lots of meaningless button clicking...
 
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Johan, can you expand on that? I am willing to have an open mind, but somehow I seem to be always missing an explanation of why it is needed.

Its needed because player delete forts (since they are broken) and become very rich by the end of the game. Its a money sink.
 
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