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CK2 Dev Diary #34: Facts about Artifacts, Real talk about Relics

Hello all, it’s been a while, but it’s my turn to write a Dev Diary again! Today I’m going to tell you about the Treasury system we’re adding in 2.7. This system itself is part of the free patch. However, a lot of the content for it is part of Monks and Mystics.

The Treasury is where characters store their items, such as weapons, artifacts, or holy relics. In many ways items are much like Character Modifiers which you are likely already familiar with, but Character Modifiers are a fairly limited and not entirely clear system. With the new Treasury system we have greater control over how they work and when they are active as well as more UI space to display and explain them. Not only that, this system allows items to be inheritable and stealable.

We hope that seeing your character’s items as physical object rather than just a number on their character sheet will offer greater immersion, especially for player who like to focus on role-playing. Sure, in the past you could find a nice axe to increase your personal combat skill, but it was just another number - now you’ll see a gleaming axe, ready to hew the limbs from your foes!
artifacts_example_isolated.png

this is not quite final artwork, but it should be similar to what we end up with

As an example, say your Character has found the Holy Grail - you will now see the Grail in your Treasury with a picture and a description as well as the effects of owning it. Further, if some Norseman comes along and raids your castle, there’s a chance that he’ll make off with your precious Grail - however, since he’s not a Christian your most holy relic is nothing more than a fancy cup to him.

As mentioned, items are also inheritable, they all go to a character’s primary heir. In the event someone dies without an heir, the items will pass to their liege if they have one, but they have a chance of being lost in the process. If an independant character dies without heirs, their items are lost - although if time permits we have talked about them having a chance to be snapped up by powerful vassals.

For 2.7 we’re converting several character modifiers into items, such as the +1 axe you might find while raiding, the saint’s bones you might find on a pilgrimage, or the trophy you made from the skull of your rival. With Monks and Mystics we’re adding a lot more, such as:
  • Commissioning swords from skilled smiths.
  • Buying fabulous Crown Jewels.
  • Hunting for Holy Artifacts.
As well as the items you can find or make while playing, we have also added a system to place some Artifacts into character’s Treasuries when a new game is started. These are mostly placed at random to keep things interesting, but there are also a few historical artifacts given to famous characters.
Paradox_CK2_TreasureChamber_big_v02.jpg
 
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The "masterwork sword" starts leaning in that direction.. in that case, really? Who is this master? Where did he come from? Why do I have his sword? Etc. Unless there is a back story, it risks being superficial.

The "Master" is not some Kung Fu type sword-master. It's referring to the Guildmaster who forged the sword.

You are missunderstanding the Masterwork Sword as someone elses Sword. But "Masterwork sword" does only mean its a custom made, very good sword. Thats all.

Centuries ago, a "Masterpiece" or "Masterwork" was a creation made by someone to exhibit their skills in order to gain the title of "Master" in their guild. Obviously the work would be the absolute highest quality an individual could produce, in order to impress their peers.

Merchants selling an item often would, usually falsely, say an item was someone's "Masterpiece" in order to talk up it's quality.

Finally today, "Masterpiece" has virtually lost it's original meaning. It just means a work of very high quality, even in this game set during the age of guilds.

If PDS wanted to put an event chain about guilds and Masterpieces in their game, that would be pretty cool.
 
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@Darkrenown @Bratyn Is there a way to make some of the items to create a set bonus? I.e. get 3 items of meteor-iron-covered-in-gold-with-indian-gem which each give you +5 defense in battle and +5 vassal opinion, but when all three are retrieved, it would gve you +25 defense, +25 vassal opinion and -10 for dynasty opinion (cause they really can't stop plotting to steal it from you)?

Will there be more complex effects on items, other than direct personal bonuses? Like additional decisions available, new events which can spawn, potential adventurer raising army to get this item to proper owner etc?
 
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Can you give us an example of a Norse relic you could find?
 
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Hello all, it’s been a while, but it’s my turn to write a Dev Diary again! Today I’m going to tell you about the Treasury system we’re adding in 2.7. This system itself is part of the free patch. However, a lot of the content for it is part of Monks and Mystics.

The Treasury is where characters store their items, such as weapons, artifacts, or holy relics. In many ways items are much like Character Modifiers which you are likely already familiar with, but Character Modifiers are a fairly limited and not entirely clear system. With the new Treasury system we have greater control over how they work and when they are active as well as more UI space to display and explain them. Not only that, this system allows items to be inheritable and stealable.

We hope that seeing your character’s items as physical object rather than just a number on their character sheet will offer greater immersion, especially for player who like to focus on role-playing. Sure, in the past you could find a nice axe to increase your personal combat skill, but it was just another number - now you’ll see a gleaming axe, ready to hew the limbs from your foes!
View attachment 223836
this is not quite final artwork, but it should be similar to what we end up with

As an example, say your Character has found the Holy Grail - you will now see the Grail in your Treasury with a picture and a description as well as the effects of owning it. Further, if some Norseman comes along and raids your castle, there’s a chance that he’ll make off with your precious Grail - however, since he’s not a Christian your most holy relic is nothing more than a fancy cup to him.

As mentioned, items are also inheritable, they all go to a character’s primary heir. In the event someone dies without an heir, the items will pass to their liege if they have one, but they have a chance of being lost in the process. If an independant character dies without heirs, their items are lost - although if time permits we have talked about them having a chance to be snapped up by powerful vassals.

For 2.7 we’re converting several character modifiers into items, such as the +1 axe you might find while raiding, the saint’s bones you might find on a pilgrimage, or the trophy you made from the skull of your rival. With Monks and Mystics we’re adding a lot more, such as:
  • Commissioning swords from skilled smiths.
  • Buying fabulous Crown Jewels.
  • Hunting for Holy Artifacts.
As well as the items you can find or make while playing, we have also added a system to place some Artifacts into character’s Treasuries when a new game is started. These are mostly placed at random to keep things interesting, but there are also a few historical artifacts given to famous characters.
View attachment 223835
May I ask (and hope for answer) if these items could be used to modify equipment of player's army?
Also do they include bows?
 
Can you give us an example of a Norse relic you could find?

The Raven Banner. High chance of the bearer's getting killed would be a guess of mine. I'd imagine it'd be wonderful for killing off someone you didn't like..by granting them the dubious honor of carrying that banner into battle.

Although it could backfire on you by heaping glory on a survivor.
 
Off-topic: EU4 could do with this in terms of art pieces and musical compositions(giving off prestige, legitimacy, and other bonuses). Would be nice to have Mozart or Bachspawn and then bring him over and have his symphonies available in your jukebox.
 
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Sad…

I'm really fond of CK2 as a historical grand strategy game. I like the depth of the history simulation system, yet not being perfect, but immersive enough to please me.

I'm sad that time is spent in RPG focused DLCs whereas developing a richer historical system (e.g. Cluny subsidiary abbeys network, cadet branches, multiple overlords depending on the owned title, more flexible title system…) would please me much more and make me buying new DLCs.

I understand others may have a taste for RPG like games, but please, please, please, implement a way to unable all this RPG stuff. For artifacts, I'm not convinced that an individual having a masterpiece sword could alter the history in any signifcant way. Maybe having two CK2 instances could be appreciated, one being "History simulation and grand strategy" and the other "RPG and medieval alternative".
 
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I love this, it ads more to the game's RPG element, which may not be the main point of it, but it ads unique aspects, that many other strategy games does not have. Definitely excellent idea.
 
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Sad…

I'm really fond of CK2 as a historical grand strategy game. I like the depth of the history simulation system, yet not being perfect, but immersive enough to please me.

I'm sad that time is spent in RPG focused DLCs whereas developing a richer historical system (e.g. Cluny subsidiary abbeys network, cadet branches, multiple overlords depending on the owned title, more flexible title system…) would please me much more and make me buying new DLCs.

I understand others may have a taste for RPG like games, but please, please, please, implement a way to unable all this RPG stuff. For artifacts, I'm not convinced that an individual having a masterpiece sword could alter the history in any signifcant way. Maybe having two CK2 instances could be appreciated, one being "History simulation and grand strategy" and the other "RPG and medieval alternative".

Relics or mythical object are in important part of the medieval time. It isn't only for RP. The possession of some relics can have great political or economical effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relic#Economic_effect) in this time. Crusader Kings it's a game where faiths are a major factor, and relics are a part of these faiths. The Crusade are in part linked with relics. And for the other objects, the ceremonial, the "apparat", is also a major factor. Some building of the patrician are clearly about that, and give bonus in diplomacy by demonstrating your wealth. The UK crown jewels is an instance of that.
 
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I do hope we'll get items that, even when alienated, are still officially the property of the original owner with maluses as a result. For example, let's say you lose a sword in battle, not only does that cause you to loss immediate prestige, but subsequent prestige since it signifies your defeat in battle. You have a malus then towards the person who took it off you, as do your close relatives. However, on recovering the sword, the prestige is restored.

Similar could happen with battle-standards. You lose your standard in battle, you lose prestige until you recover it. However, if you subsequently fight against an enemy who carries your standard, your army lose morale since the enemy can show you have been defeated.
 
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Would it be possible to send others such as your kids in search of the grail instead of you. After all I'll be busy managing my economic empire and leading the largest merchant republic around.
 
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My primary concern is rapid accumulation. If acquiring something like a fancy sword is a decision action, the AI will jump to do it every chance it gets, and by the year 1000 every dynasty is going to have a vault full of masterwork swords, and they'll be meaningless. The thing about the axe event (for example) that makes it special is that it's really rare, and can make a particular character stand out.


What I'd really like to see would be global limits on some of these. One holy grail, a limited supply of genuine relics, etc. "Masterwork" didn't just mean really good - it meant the specific piece made by a journeyman artisan as a demonstration to be elevated to the rank of Master in a craft, typically the single best work they ever did. There should be a very limited number of those, as well! It would certainly add meaning to having and protecting such things as dynasty heirlooms if they were literally irreplaceable, and subject to theft. The recovery of a stolen item would be a valid CB for at least a century after its theft, and to gain the bonuses (prestige, piety, etc) of having the item, you have to go public with it.


Here are my thoughts for this system:


  1. There should be global limits on items – there is a limited supply of most of these things, and once all are accounted for, more should not be spontaneously generated. Some might be produced at a slow rate over time (masterworks, for example), while others are one and done (the Grail).

  2. Some items should also decay over time, if resources aren’t occasionally put in to upkeeping them (basically an event once a century or so to spend some gold on upkeep, or risk losing some or all of the item). It needn’t be a huge cost, certainly not one of the ridiculous costs that is scaled to income so it costs more than a castle just to hire somebody, but something to show it’s being thought about. Letting certain major items decay (the grail, for example) would have an insane piety and prestige hit though.

  3. One should be able to donate sacred items to your religious head or to a local temple, in exchange for a one-time boost. This already exists as an event in the game for relics, it should just be made an available decision for sacred items in the treasury.

  4. Items that are “lost” (such as in succession or in raid looting) should not cease to exist, but rather simply have “whereabouts unknown." They should remain unknown unless and until the RNG dictates that they are discovered again.

  5. Items that are stolen have to be publicly known in order to provide any bonuses, so it shouldn’t be difficult to track a stolen item. Stealing is a very “in your face” move.

  6. A stolen item provides a valid CB (retake item) for the rightful dynastic heir of the original owner for at least a century after its theft. A non-dynastic heir would not retain such a CB.

  7. The items should have histories, like titles do. Click the history button on it to see the list of owners, and how it was passed down (with “whereabouts unknown” as applicable), exactly like you would with a realm title.

  8. There should be ways to specifically devote resources to protecting the treasury, whether it’s a special building, or paying an upkeep cost for guards, or designating a minor title with special duties (real life equivalent: English “Master of the Jewel House”). If theft is a thing, defense against theft has to be.
 
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