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CK2 Dev Diary #34: Facts about Artifacts, Real talk about Relics

Hello all, it’s been a while, but it’s my turn to write a Dev Diary again! Today I’m going to tell you about the Treasury system we’re adding in 2.7. This system itself is part of the free patch. However, a lot of the content for it is part of Monks and Mystics.

The Treasury is where characters store their items, such as weapons, artifacts, or holy relics. In many ways items are much like Character Modifiers which you are likely already familiar with, but Character Modifiers are a fairly limited and not entirely clear system. With the new Treasury system we have greater control over how they work and when they are active as well as more UI space to display and explain them. Not only that, this system allows items to be inheritable and stealable.

We hope that seeing your character’s items as physical object rather than just a number on their character sheet will offer greater immersion, especially for player who like to focus on role-playing. Sure, in the past you could find a nice axe to increase your personal combat skill, but it was just another number - now you’ll see a gleaming axe, ready to hew the limbs from your foes!
artifacts_example_isolated.png

this is not quite final artwork, but it should be similar to what we end up with

As an example, say your Character has found the Holy Grail - you will now see the Grail in your Treasury with a picture and a description as well as the effects of owning it. Further, if some Norseman comes along and raids your castle, there’s a chance that he’ll make off with your precious Grail - however, since he’s not a Christian your most holy relic is nothing more than a fancy cup to him.

As mentioned, items are also inheritable, they all go to a character’s primary heir. In the event someone dies without an heir, the items will pass to their liege if they have one, but they have a chance of being lost in the process. If an independant character dies without heirs, their items are lost - although if time permits we have talked about them having a chance to be snapped up by powerful vassals.

For 2.7 we’re converting several character modifiers into items, such as the +1 axe you might find while raiding, the saint’s bones you might find on a pilgrimage, or the trophy you made from the skull of your rival. With Monks and Mystics we’re adding a lot more, such as:
  • Commissioning swords from skilled smiths.
  • Buying fabulous Crown Jewels.
  • Hunting for Holy Artifacts.
As well as the items you can find or make while playing, we have also added a system to place some Artifacts into character’s Treasuries when a new game is started. These are mostly placed at random to keep things interesting, but there are also a few historical artifacts given to famous characters.
Paradox_CK2_TreasureChamber_big_v02.jpg
 
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It would be interesting, if cynical characters could "manufacture" relics and trick zealous characters into buying them.
 
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Taking or stealing a hostile religion's holy objects should be possible and give major prestige and piety rewards. The True Cross, anyone ?
 
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Can you give us an example of a Norse relic you could find?
Hopefully mythical ones but not mythological ones. Things like Gram (Sword of Sigurd), Legbiter (sword of Magnus III of Norway) and Hrunting (Sword of Beowulf), rather than Mjölnir, Gungnir or worst of all Skräpp. No norse king would ever dare claim that his weapon belongs to one of the gods. The gods may take it amiss if you lie about if and even worse what if it is, Thor don't take kindly to other people messing with his hammer you know.

Off-topic: EU4 could do with this in terms of art pieces and musical compositions(giving off prestige, legitimacy, and other bonuses). Would be nice to have Mozart or Bachspawn and then bring him over and have his symphonies available in your jukebox.
I would very much like to see these things both in Eu4 but also in Ck2, many great works of philosophy was written in the era, just not to many in europe.

Sad…

I'm really fond of CK2 as a historical grand strategy game. I like the depth of the history simulation system, yet not being perfect, but immersive enough to please me.

I'm sad that time is spent in RPG focused DLCs whereas developing a richer historical system (e.g. Cluny subsidiary abbeys network, cadet branches, multiple overlords depending on the owned title, more flexible title system…) would please me much more and make me buying new DLCs.

I understand others may have a taste for RPG like games, but please, please, please, implement a way to unable all this RPG stuff. For artifacts, I'm not convinced that an individual having a masterpiece sword could alter the history in any signifcant way. Maybe having two CK2 instances could be appreciated, one being "History simulation and grand strategy" and the other "RPG and medieval alternative".
One does not disclude the other.
And a masterwork sword might well help you to win a duel, a holy relic might help you win a battle. just ask the crusaders what finding a single rusted spear might do for your morale, and that relic was denied by the church and was suposedly the same as a relic that was never lost (the spear of destiny was at constantinople had been for centuries).

Dude, this idea is cool! Does that mean, during a Crusade, we have a chance to finding the legendary Holy Lance? Because that'd be epic!
You get a chance to find a holy lance, just for it to be discredited less than a year later, and the byzantine emperor to be upset with you since he has already got one.

I do hope we'll get items that, even when alienated, are still officially the property of the original owner with maluses as a result. For example, let's say you lose a sword in battle, not only does that cause you to loss immediate prestige, but subsequent prestige since it signifies your defeat in battle. You have a malus then towards the person who took it off you, as do your close relatives. However, on recovering the sword, the prestige is restored.

Similar could happen with battle-standards. You lose your standard in battle, you lose prestige until you recover it. However, if you subsequently fight against an enemy who carries your standard, your army lose morale since the enemy can show you have been defeated.
I would very mush like to see CBs for stuff like this, retake a relic, free a imprisoned family member, free an imprisoned missionary, jail some character who wronged you and is hiding out in someone else's court.

It should be possible for a character with Deceitful to create forgeries.
Well they all are aren't they? the real ones probably rusted away centuries ago. The only Joyeuse I will believe is the one that is actually handed down to me from the hand of Charlamagne, and even then I wouldn't be certain that no one didn't switch them (Supposedly it was done during the french revolution, either by the royalists to prevent it from falling into napoleon's hands or by napoleon's followers to prevent the restored regime from getting it, carbon dating has however revealed that the blade could be old enough to be the real deal) but yeah it would be nice to be able to claim that that sword you inherited was really Excalibur all along (insane characters should get a chance to do it too, just thy actually believe it is).

Things it would be nice to be able to do with relics:

Have vassals offer to buy them from you when you are trying to accumulate a war chest.

Offer them to religious authorities for piety and an opinion boost

Endow them to a church in one of you holdings for a prosperity boost as pilgrims come to see it.

Set them in the hilt of your weapon for a minor morale boost when leading armies (and the risk it gets lost in the confusion of battle)

Prove that the bones of the alleged saint are actually pig bones if you are cynical/of a different religion
Yeah I'd love to see artifacts carried on your person getting lost on the battlefield, and then (if theyre named ones) randomly rediscovered by people in the same area (or people in the same area claim that what they have is the real deal).

Also I oppose the uniqueness of any relic or artifact, there should easily be able to be two supposed grails at the same time. This should grant the holders a CB on one another where the loser have to admit that the one held by the victor is the real deal.
 
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Could monastic orders model merchant republics, in that each religion has one interface with all orders (orders take the place of patrician families), where all monasteries (taking the place of trade posts) are visible?
 
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just an idea: it might be nice to have some items follow particular inheritance rules. say, when women's legal position is low, famous swords might have a chance to be inherited by a male relative with high martial rather than the female relative who gets the title. other items (personal belongings rather than state insignia) might be passed to the descendant of whom the decesaed had the best opinion rather than to who comes first in the succession line.

also, if an item is stolen from you, and you discover who stole it, would you be able to do something about that? accuse them, plot to get it back, get a casus belli?
 
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What about making it so one of your ancestor's crown becomes a powerful heirloom due to his or her abilities as ruler? Or if one of you ancestors is sainted, then you obtain some relic they once had.
 
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Event Chain:

Commission masterwork sword.
When the sword is complete: "Pay the smith" "Kill the smith and take the sword"
If you selected option 2 has a chance of triggering: "Smith's son takes up the sword to kill you", an event which either leads to an event where you die, killed by the brat, or leave him scarred.

If you leave him scarred, he will of course come for you in 15-20 years, saying "Hello... My name is <Culturally Appropriate Name>. You killed my father. Prepare to die."

DARKRENOWN MAKE IT HAPPEN PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE.

By the way, I love this xpac more than I did yesterday, and I already loved it.
I'm generally against pop culture references but this is awesome make it happen!

1. Will it be possible to fabricate relics?
2. Will relics be tied to portrait effects.? E.g halo when having grail or fancy crown?
Fabricate as in create of fabricate as in fake? I hope both.
As for your second I would be so happy if I could just change my clothes in general, I mean they can no way convince me that the Holy roman emperor walked around with two kilos of gold on his head every day for all his reign.
 
As much as I love the idea, I fear that collecting relics will be too easy, and that an average player will be able to gather all the holy artifacts in a few centuries, making the whole thing highly unrealistic...
 
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This is huge.

I think artifacts should be breakable (in combat, during sieges, accidents etc.), just to prevent stockpiling too many swords and relics in next generations.
 
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Are Christians around the world able to learn of religious artifacts getting pillaged by Norsemen, so they can go on a private mini-crusade to get them back?
 
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Relics or mythical object are in important part of the medieval time. It isn't only for RP. The possession of some relics can have great political or economical effect (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Relic#Economic_effect) in this time. Crusader Kings it's a game where faiths are a major factor, and relics are a part of these faiths. The Crusade are in part linked with relics. And for the other objects, the ceremonial, the "apparat", is also a major factor. Some building of the patrician are clearly about that, and give bonus in diplomacy by demonstrating your wealth. The UK crown jewels is an instance of that.

OK perhaps for relics, but not for altering character stats, but not true for weapons or such
 
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A great addition. I've been wanting to see a feature like this for a long time. Good work.

Is there any chance for portraits for pets?

It would be cool if you got a dog the portrait for the dog was a local breed. Or if you were a viking you could get an orange cat etc.
 
I can see how these treasures might get pruned out of the game over time. A masterwork from a hundred years ago is just an outdated antique. The church might declare your holy relic a fake. Things like the doomsday book might require regular upkeep. Truly supernatural stuff might just magically disappear.

When a realm is in debt, there's always the temptation melt down the crown jewels for money, taking the big prestige hit to get much needed cash.
 
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There should be a chance of discovering artifacts from antiquity when building new settlements, as though it were discovered in the ruins that lay just beneath the surface of the new settlement.
 
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Well...after reading this Dev Diary, I can see several mods benefiting from this new patch/dlc. The Game of Thrones mod certainly comes to mind... ;)

Edit: As a matter of fact, thinking about now, I wouldn't be in the least bit surprised if they actually came up with the idea based of the stuff that's in the AGOT mod already, and expanded on it to include what we see in this diary here. Nicely done Paradox. Nicely done.
 
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It's not possible to sell items, although it's a good idea.
Kind of an obvious thought to have ... especially to the church.

We can look into splitting them more if artifact pileup becomes a problem, but it might be more that the relic event needs tuned. The idea is they'll stay with the player as your characters die.
I'm not familiar with how this would have worked out historically and I'm guessing there was no set rule, but I'd prefer the artifacts to be divided in gavelkind.


Items don't break, although you could do so through events if desired. You can collect as many items as you like, but not everything stacks - e.g. you aren't a combat god just because you have 5 swords.
I'd prefer it if lesser items broke, especially weapons and armor ... or if precious/ceremonial/decorative ones occasionally broke in raids or pillaging and whatnot.
 
Sad…

I'm really fond of CK2 as a historical grand strategy game. I like the depth of the history simulation system, yet not being perfect, but immersive enough to please me.

I'm sad that time is spent in RPG focused DLCs whereas developing a richer historical system (e.g. Cluny subsidiary abbeys network, cadet branches, multiple overlords depending on the owned title, more flexible title system…) would please me much more and make me buying new DLCs.

I understand others may have a taste for RPG like games, but please, please, please, implement a way to unable all this RPG stuff. For artifacts, I'm not convinced that an individual having a masterpiece sword could alter the history in any signifcant way. Maybe having two CK2 instances could be appreciated, one being "History simulation and grand strategy" and the other "RPG and medieval alternative".

+10000000000000000000000000000000000

CK2 would always at best be a weak and very odd RPG.

It used to be about medieval intrigue, dynasties, religion -- big picture stuff -- that created a wonderful framework for a rewarding strategy experience that spanned centuries. At some point issues like rebellion reworks, missing cadet branches, meaningful internal management, etc. just became completely overlooked and supplanted with vampires and +2 Swords of Striking.
 
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