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Stellaris Dev Diary #60: Psionics and The Shroud

Hello everyone and welcome to another Stellaris development diary. Today's dev diary is going to be about psionics and one of the three ascension paths mentioned in Dev Diary #56: the Psionic Ascension Path.

Psionics
First, before we start digging into the way psionics will work Utopia, we should clarify that we are not removing any features from the free version of the game. If you have the Banks update but do not own Utopia, psionics will continue to work the same way they currently do: As technologies that you unlock. The only difference is that psionics can now only be researched by Spiritualist empires, though it is entirely possible for an empire that does not start out as Spiritualist to acquire psionics by shifting their empire ethics to Spiritualist over the course of the game, and once you start down the Psionic path it is possible to continue along it even if you stop being Spiritualist. This Spiritualist requirement applies whether or not you own Utopia.

If you *do* own the Utopia expansion, most of the psionic features will no longer appear as technologies. Only Psionic Theory, the very first psionic tech, is still researchable. To get access to the rest of the psionic path you will need to pick the 'Mind over Matter' Ascension Perk to start your empire on the Psionic Ascension Path. Picking this Ascension Perk will unlock latent psionic abilities among your primary species. A certain percentage of your leaders will have the 'Psychic' trait that grants a variety of advantages for the different leader classes, you will get access to Psionic Armies and also the special Psi Corps building. As with all Ascension Paths, you will need to have at least two Ascension Perk slots unlocked to pick 'Mind over Matter'.
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After picking Mind over Matter, you will need to continue amassing Unity and working your way through the Tradition trees. Once you have unlocked your fourth Ascension Perk slot, the 'Transcendance' Ascension Perk becomes available. This is the second stage in the Psionic Ascension Path and represents the full Psionic awakening of your species. From this point on, your entire species will get the 'Psionic' species trait and all leaders from this species will be full-fledged Psychics. In addition to the advantages granted by these traits, from now on there is also a chance that other species in your empire will psionically awaken, first as latent Psychics and then as fully awakened ones much like your own.
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The Shroud (Paid Feature)
Not long after fully awakening, your species will become aware of The Shroud. The Shroud is the realm from which psychics draw their power, a strange dimension very unlike the material universe, a place of opportunity and danger alike. To begin exploring The Shroud, you will need to complete a special society research project that once completed will give you access to The Shroud in the contacts view. Each time you wish to enter The Shroud you will need to expend a considerable amount of energy (in the form of Energy Credits), though this cost can be reduced by having access to the Zro Dust Strategic Resource.
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As for what can happen while exploring The Shroud... quite a few different things. We will not give them all away here, but some examples include unlocking psionic technologies, asking the spirits that dwell there for a boon, or even forming a Covenant with one of a number of particularly powerful spirits... a pact that will give great benefits, but may come at a terrible cost.
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That's all for today! Next week we'll be coming back to Factions and how you can use them to change your Empire Ethics. We'll also be talking about Indoctrination. See you then!
 
We are arguing semantics. Materialism in this game is believing that contemporary scientific dogma is all there is. Spiritualism is saying there is more to existence than that.
It is semantics, but if Materialism in Stellaris would work the way you suggest, it would have a penalty to Research, not a bonus, because science would stagnate as nobody is questioning anything anymore.

Arguably, this is not the case.
 
Spiritualist is a man, by description, who believes there is grand order of the universe, that universe is caring, that we're not pointless. That's spiritualism - in-game. "There are those think it behooves us to remember how tiny we are, how pointless our lives in this vast uncaring universe... What nonsense!" Yeah, that's natural foundation for religion. That's why every spiritualistic government is theocracy. That's why if they're agressive, they are trying to spread their faith. That's why they defend "holy" worlds.


Oh really? Contemporary scientific dogma refuses FTL, year-based species morphism, possibility to actual use antimatter to produce a lot of energy and actually is quite sceptical about xenolife.
Did you never do those things in school that would say,

Sam is a girl.
Girls are named Sam.
Therefore, if someone is named Sam, they must be a girl.

I'm pretty sure you can see what's wrong with that statement, and that is exactly what you are doing.

Theocracies are religious governments.
Religious Governments are made up of spiritualists.
Therefore spiritualists must be religious.

That is a false statement, and that is what you are doing. But since you are so stuck on the idea that spiritualism = religion, I can't change your mind no matter how many facts I drop. I'll just leave this, from fanatic spiritualism:
"Our science has proved that Consciousness begets reality."
 
It is semantics, but if Materialism in Stellaris would work the way you suggest, it would have a penalty to Research, not a bonus, because science would stagnate as nobody is questioning anything anymore.

Arguably, this is not the case.
I don't think so. I just don't think they will focus on anything other than the physical universe.
 
Psionics
... The only difference is that psionics can now only be researched by Spiritualist empires, though it is entirely possible for an empire that does not start out as Spiritualist to acquire psionics by shifting their empire ethics to Spiritualist over the course of the game, and once you start down the Psionic path it is possible to continue along it even if you stop being Spiritualist. This Spiritualist requirement applies whether or not you own Utopia....

*sigh* Seriously, Wiz? You're doubling down on gating the OP endgame techs behind something that only one ethic gets to get?
Just one more thing for the modders to fix. No wonder nobody has any bloody achievements for this game.
 
Theocracies are religious governments.
Religious Governments are made up of spiritualists.
Therefore spiritualists must be religious.
*sigh*
Let's imagine you created a civ with one and only ethic - spiritualism. Not "spiritualism AND...", just spiritualist. Actually current engine forbid it, but we're trying to get what's spiritualism is.
You can be: Indirect Democracy, Plutocratic Oligarchy, Despotic Empire or some kind of theocracy. Right?
So, let's create another civ, with one and only ethic - materialism. Same thing, just one ethic.
You can be: Indirect Democracy, Plutocratic Oligarchy, Despotic Empire, Direct Democracy, Science Directorate or Despotic Hegemony.
Let's create third civ, without ethics at all (once again, by current engine you can't).
You can be: Indirect Democracy, Plutocratic Oligarchy, Despotic Empire.
So Indirect Democracy, Plutocratic Oligarchy, Despotic Empire can't be actually an option of being spiritualist.
Which governmental forms is unique for spiritualists? Three kinds of theocracy. So theocracies ARE option of being spiritualists.
So yeah, clear, distilled spiritualists, not "I'm spiritualist elsewhere, but in politics I'm not" build theocracy.
Simple.

Or let me show you how exactly my logic statement looks like, if you want syllogism form.
Spiritualists creates theocracies when are on power.
Theocracies are religious governments.
Therefore spiritualists must be religious.
To defeat this syllogism you just need to show spiritualist government that isn't theocracy. Game helps us here, it states requirements.


I don't think so. I just don't think they will focus on anything other than the physical universe.
What's "physical universe"? There are a lot of scientific, quite acknowledged by contemporary scientific community, hypoteses, that multiverse IS exists. So what?
 
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*sigh* Seriously, Wiz? You're doubling down on gating the OP endgame techs behind something that only one ethic gets to get?
Just one more thing for the modders to fix. No wonder nobody has any bloody achievements for this game.
It's called "Distinct ethics that have their own unique playstyles". Terminology is a king.
 
Or let me show you how exactly my logic statement looks like, if you want syllogism form.
Spiritualists creates theocracies when are on power.
Theocracies are religious governments.
Therefore spiritualists must be religious.
... Did you really just try to say that you didn't make a fallacy by making another fallacy?
I don't know if you know this or not, but NOT ALL SPIRITUALISTS MAKE THEOCRACIES WHEN IN POWER.
And just because "Some x are y" does not mean that "All x are y".

That's like saying,
"All tomotoes are red and orange.
Tomatoes are fruit.
Therefore all fruit are red and orange."

Dang dude.
What's "physical universe"?
Now you are just being dense.
 
I don't think so. I just don't think they will focus on anything other than the physical universe.
I would think they would investigate anything that is somehow measurable.

This includes people developing strange abilities that actually can be observed and measured with scientific method, as a result out of evolutionary influences.

A+homoerotic+moment+in+starship+troopers+i+made+this+when_bc8e6e_3206916.gif
 
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I don't know if you know this or not, but NOT ALL SPIRITUALISTS MAKE THEOCRACIES WHEN IN POWER.
No, I don't.
Please show me government - in-game - that have ethos requirement as "Spiritualist" and NOT theocracy.
 
I would think they would investigate anything that is somehow measurable.

This includes people developing strange abilities that actually can be observed and measured with scientific method, as a result out of evolutionary influences.

For what it's worth I agree with you, in a way and to a degree. But I think it should make your empire more spiritualist. The force may be caused by medichlorians and measurable, but everyone that discovers it becomes deeply spiritualistic. It's the same in 40k. Even if I give in and say they were originally materialistic, discovering what was in the warp *drove them* to spiritualism.

So I would agree that materialists should get access to it if psychics made the ethic change to spiritualism steep.
 
No, I don't.
Please show me government - in-game - that have ethos requirement as "Spiritualist" and NOT theocracy.
You're being really obtuse.

All theocracies are spiritualist- but not all spiritualists are theocracies.

This is clearly evidenced in-game by the ability to play an empire with the Spiritualist ethos and not pick a theocratic government.
 
No, I don't.
Please show me government - in-game - that have ethos requirement as "Spiritualist" and NOT theocracy.
I'm going to stop responding to you now, because your false equivalency is getting annoying, and you are far too close minded to understand that just because the three theocratic governments are spiritualists (duh) does not mean spiritualism is the same as religion.
 
No, I don't.
Please show me government - in-game - that have ethos requirement as "Spiritualist" and NOT theocracy.
To be fair, just because an Ethos in this game can pick something does not necessitate it always will when there are alternatives available.

Not all Militarists have to become a Dictatorship. Not all Materialists need to turn into Science Directorates. It comes down to where a culture's focus lies, and Spiritualism may manifest in something as simple as ancestor worship, whereas the culture's Militarism ultimately turns them into Military Republic.

So as long as it's not the Fanatics ...

For what it's worth I agree with you, in a way and to a degree. But I think it should make your empire more spiritualist.
I'd prefer if instead psionics in a non-Spiritual empire would be distrusted, a bit like robots in a Spiritual realm. But your suggestion is interesting, too.

Perhaps the ideal would be that both is possible, and a player can try to steer the process by enacting various decrees to limit or endorse telepaths in a sort of "playing with fire" way, always trying to find a balance that keeps the populace content, but risking that telepaths become shunned as mutants .. or embraced as the heralds of a new era of Spiritualism as their minds delve into places where physical science cannot go.

Lots of potential for social friction here, possibly involving all sorts of references from B5 to the X-Men.
 
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This is clearly evidenced in-game by the ability to play an empire with the Spiritualist ethos and not pick a theocratic government.
Yes - because game don't allow us to select ONLY spiritualists.
Players are obviously can play three generic governments, but they are not unique for spiritualists => isn't option granted by spiritualism.
Also game require to take at least one more ethos. But all that options are not unique for spiritualists => isn't option granted by spiritualism.
You can't say "AK-74 isn't automatic rifle, because it can be used with a baginet in close combat", because non-ability to be used in close combat isn't something defining automatic rifle.
We're trying to define SPIRITUALISM, not a mix of spiritualism and other ethoses. So only options unique to spiritualism are definitive.
 
Not all Militarists have to become a Dictatorship. Not all Materialists need to turn into Science Directorates. It comes down to where a culture's focus lies, and Spiritualism may manifest in something as simple as ancestor worship, whereas the culture's Militarism ultimately turns them into Military Republic.
Nobody arguing it, because people in Stellaris are more complex that "they're spiritualists". Not all species who have militarists ethoses are Military Dictatorships, but that's not because they're materalists, quite the opposite - that's because they're something else, not JUST militarists.
We have only one type of civs who are ONLY one ethos and nothing more. By the way, spiritualist one is a theocracy.
 
We're trying to define SPIRITUALISM, not a mix of spiritualism and other ethoses. So only options unique to spiritualism are definitive.
No, you're just shifting the goalposts.

Here, have further evidence that spiritualism =/= religion: due to ethics divergence, it is entirely possible to have many Spiritualist POPs in a non-Spiritualist, even Materialist empire. Again: all theocracies are spiritualist, but not all spiritualists are theocratic.
 
@Wiz will it be possible to mod in new shroud interactions? So we can do custom events based on what we find in the shroud?
 
Nobody arguing it, because people in Stellaris are more complex that "they're spiritualists". Not all species who have militarists ethoses are Military Dictatorships, but that's not because they're materalists, quite the opposite - that's because they're something else, not JUST militarists.
We have only one type of civs who are ONLY one ethos and nothing more. By the way, spiritualist one is a theocracy.
So what you are telling me, is that you can have non-religious, spiritualists with militaristic tendencies that form a military republic rather than a theocracy?

And no, we aren't trying to define spiritualism. The game and developers have already defined it.