• We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.

CK2 Dev Diary #41: Secret Religious Cults

Hi folks!

This week is a big deal for me and for everyone else who has worked on Crusader Kings II over the years, because the game is just about to turn five years old! It was released on Valentine’s Day, February 14th, 2012. (So, if you’re running low on ideas for a gift to that special someone tomorrow, what could be more romantic than a copy of Crusader Kings II? Just saying.)

Five years on, we are still cranking out expansions and updates, all thanks to you folks! I have to say, the lifespan of this game has been pretty amazing compared to all the previous games I’ve worked on. I loved them all, of course - those games we no longer actively support - from Europa Universalis to Victoria II, but it’s been fantastic to be allowed to keep building on a game for so long, unlocking so much of its potential. CK2 is also special to me because I owned the vision and have done so much work on it personally. Stay tuned for a special anniversary dev diary tomorrow, where I will talk about the history and development of the game at length.

Of more immediate interest, we have essentially finished work on the upcoming expansion, Monks and Mystics, and it’s shaped up very well! You might already know, or suspect, that most of the new Societies will be part of the paid expansion, but there is one type of Society that actually comes with the free update; Secret Religious Cults (yes, this means that the Society framework itself is also free, so that modders can go nuts even without the expansion.) These Societies consist of followers who falsely profess faith in one religion while secretly belonging to another.

secret_cult_screen_01.jpg


Almost all of the main (non-heretic) religions have a corresponding “Secret Cult”. The membership consists of characters who fake belief in another religion in order to avoid persecution. Rulers can join any of these cults if the religion exists within diplomatic distance, and at the highest rank, the ruler can finally overtly embrace the religion and convert. Meanwhile, you get missions and powers to induce Sympathy for your real religion in other characters in the realm as well as the population in the counties. With careful groundwork, you can stage an extremely powerful religious revolt; as long as your subversive activities go unnoticed by your liege…

secret_cult_screen_02.jpg


secret_cult_screen_03.jpg


Next week we’ll start going over the patch notes, and don’t miss our anniversary stream later today or the special dev diary tomorrow!
 
As I understand it your need to be part of a society to be secretly anything and since the assassins are a society too and you can only be in one society... My guess is that you have to be actually Shia, a waste though.
I don't recall them saying you can only be in one society.

index.php


Given secretly shiite is listed as a way in which you can join the Assassin's I can only imagine it's ok.
 
I don't recall them saying you can only be in one society.

index.php


Given secretly shiite is listed as a way in which you can join the Assassin's I can only imagine it's ok.
You know, @Darkrenown, I just noticed, there's a typo in this screenshot. I don't know if anyone said in the original thread but the word you're looking for in the tooltip is "discreetly". "Discretely" means something else.
 
They would not renounce their heathen ways.
A source on that they were given an option to convert? Because I have never heard that before. As I understand it Charlemagne rounded up the surviving rebels as well as several nearby towns and butchered them to make a point.
Widukind was given the option but his men as far as I know never were.

Please tell me theres a way to be a Christian on the surface but the part of a Greco Roman Pagan secret society? So I can reintroduce the true roman faith

After all you let me reinstate the Roman Empire why not let us do the same for the roman religion

MAKE JUPITER MAXIMUS GREAT AGAIN!
Because the roman hellenic paganism was dead before the rome fell, heck christianity wasnät even the religion that replaced it, the most common religions in Constantine's days was Zunism and the cult of mithra (basically a roman verison of zoroastrism), all forms of paganism had to be grouped to be on par with these. Rome quite frankly abandoned their old gods fairly quickly after expanding to the east.

So, this is a super petty complaint (and I'm super hyped for the DLC!), but have you considered marking it as fictious?

I may be damaged by the Dan-Brown-mania from a while ago, but I'm really averse to everything portraying secret societies with extreme influence as real.
Well this is pretty much the realistic religious society. It represents syncretism.

I don't recall them saying you can only be in one society.

index.php


Given secretly shiite is listed as a way in which you can join the Assassin's I can only imagine it's ok.
I could be wrong.
 
Well this is pretty much the realistic religious society. It represents syncretism.
I thought syncretism was mixing religions, e.g. Tengri or Arian Christianity. Either way, this is following one faith in public and a different one in secret.
 
I thought syncretism was mixing religions, e.g. Tengri or Arian Christianity. Either way, this is following one faith in public and a different one in secret.
Yeah but when you do thing will get mixed up. Sure it doesn't represent it perfectly but it is a step in the right direction.

And this was the syncretism that existed under christianity, people going to church on sundays but still wearing their thor's hammers is very much related to them taking pagan traditions and rebranding them as christian ones.
 
Because the roman hellenic paganism was dead before the rome fell, heck christianity wasnät even the religion that replaced it, the most common religions in Constantine's days was Zunism and the cult of mithra (basically a roman verison of zoroastrism), all forms of paganism had to be grouped to be on par with these. Rome quite frankly abandoned their old gods fairly quickly after expanding to the east.

Not true

Apparently there was still Greco-Roman paganism being openly practised in Laconia Greece 804 AD and infact they defied the Patriarch of Constantinople when he demmanded they convert to Christianity
 
Yeah but when you do thing will get mixed up. Sure it doesn't represent it perfectly but it is a step in the right direction.

And this was the syncretism that existed under christianity, people going to church on sundays but still wearing their thor's hammers is very much related to them taking pagan traditions and rebranding them as christian ones.
You know, I read about this sect called Arianism that basically equated YHWH to Odin and Jesus to Thor, and disliked the Roman church idea of the Trinity. The Vandals were big on it. Interesting stuff.

EDIT: So people don't keep correcting me, the article I read was about Arianism as practiced by the Vandal Kingdom during the fall of the WRE.
 
Last edited:
The reach of secret societies in general in the DLC is way overblown though, which was I meant.

There is only ONE absolutelly fantasy society... Lucifer's Own. And as far as I know it's turned of if you turn fantasy off. What else would be ahistorical in your opinion?
 
There is only ONE absolutelly fantasy society... Lucifer's Own. And as far as I know it's turned of if you turn fantasy off. What else would be ahistorical in your opinion?

Well, fictional was maybe the wrong word, but really, secret societies as in the DLC did just not exist during the middle ages.

The idea is cool, I look forward to the DLC, but it's extremely ahistorical.
 
The "Demand Conversion" decision should also create secret believers imho.

edit: Maybe except vs. Honest?

I could see other traits blocking it as well. Craven ("What if I get caught?"), Cynical ("I never truly believed that rot in the first place, I won't die for it", etc.
 
You know, I read about this sect called Arianism that basically equated YHWH to Odin and Jesus to Thor, and disliked the Roman church idea of the Trinity. The Vandals were big on it. Interesting stuff.
The weapon of a carpenter would be the hammer.

Seems legit.
 
The weapon of a carpenter would be the hammer.

Seems legit.
And the God of the Old Testament is more or less a pagan thundergod, though New Testament God was something genuinely new. In fact IIRC the Cathars thought the God of the Old Testament was actually the Devil.
 
Well, fictional was maybe the wrong word, but really, secret societies as in the DLC did just not exist during the middle ages.

The idea is cool, I look forward to the DLC, but it's extremely ahistorical.

Well how would you know they didn't exist? They are secret societies after all.