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EU4 - Development Diary - 21st of February 2017

Hello everyone. Tuesday has crept up on us once again which means it's time to armour up, grab my sword and jump back into the Thunderdome that is the Developer multiplayer, but before that, we've got a new Dev Diary!

Today we'll take a closer look at the much speculated Tributary States mechanic from the upcoming expansion. It's been fun reading the comments of this thread and see what the community has been suspecting we've put in the game. I'll be tackling that here

Getting straight to the meat of it, Tributary is a new subject type in Europa Universalis IV available for Nations in the Eastern Religion Group. Tributaries can be established both through warfare and through diplomacy and, while large nations are certainly not going to want to become your tributary willingly, through winning war you can force a nation of any size to bend the knee and pay up.

When you have established a nation as your Tributary, you will receive and annual tribute from them. You as their overlord are able to instruct them what to send, from Money, Administrative Power, Diplo Power, Military Power and Manpower. each year of successful tribute mutually raises trust between the nations. If you are the benevolent type of player, you can even tell them that no tribute is necessary. I am not a benevolent Overlord.


eu4_110.png


Here is Ming with their mighty collection of Tributaries. Along with demanding annual tribute, there are some new interactions available exclusively for nations with tributaries (artwork for them not yet in, so don't mind the placeholders):


  • Bestow Gifts: send subject 0.5 of target’s yearly income,
  • Send additional troops: sent 2 years of subject’s manpower,
  • Demand artifacts: Take 5 prestige from subject,
  • Demand additional tribute: take 0.25 years of target’s income from target
these interactions will also affect the subjects' liberty desire, which brings us to an important point, what does it mean to be a tributary. For what purpose does a nation bend their knee to the tax collector?

Although Tributaries are subjects, they are the most free of any type of subject. They may make their own allies, subjects and foreign policy. They will not follow their overlord into wars or any of the usual subject behavior. Instead, they will be given protection. If another nation who is not also a tributary to the same overlord attacks them, their Overlord will be called to arms. The Overlord may accept or decline although, depending on the relationship and trust between the Overlord and Tributary. Declining will have ill effects on their relationship with their tributaries.

The main cause of relations going south is due to the subject refusing to give tribute. If liberty desire grows too high, caused by the usual modifiers from relative strength, relations etc, Tributaries may start thinking they would be better off keeping their hard-earned manpower, money or Power, and so refuse to give tribute. Eventually, this can lead to the Tributary relationship breaking down, so keep and eye on your subjects and don't demand too much additional Tribute.

Speaking of milking nations dry, it seemed only natural to give Hordes the ability to have tributaries. I've been having an absolute ball with my favourite nation keeping the Horde economy turning through my horseback tributary collectors.

eu4_111.png



Tributary States are a paid feature in the upcoming yet-unnamed expansion, and are available for Hordes and for nations in the Eastern Religion Group (Shinto, Confucian, Three Buddhists) and are additionally available for any nation who is the Emperor of China.

What is the Emperor of China, you ask?

We'll find that out next week.
 
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Trin Tragula said:
How would you suggest we change it?
I am not sure I think creating an actual tributary relationship for this incident would make sense.
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As an option why not? It's the Russian player that makes the choice, so it's not unlike asking China to become its tributary.

Sure, it would be silly if China actaualy intervened to defend Russia, but I guess other factors would make it unlikely.
 
Roxas15 said:
Muscovy paid last time 1501 tribute and austria paid tribute to ottomans. just saying.
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The Ottomans wouldn't defend Austria in a war to protect their tributary. Neither would Kazan, Crimea, or the Golden Horde defend Muscovy. War reparations are more representative of what happened with them, though still not perfect.
 
What happens to a horde's tributaries when their overlord reforms their government? Do they just spontaneously break free with no consequence? Because that sounds like it would seriously discourage players from using them.
Maybe allow reformed hordes to keep their tributaries but not make any new ones?

Also, can we let non-horde tengri nations make tributaries? They're from the right part of the world, and even with the syncratic faith, they're still quite a bit weaker than their Abrahemic and Hindu competition, so I don't think it would unbalance them. It'd also partially solve the reforming problem all by itself.
 
ringhloth said:
The Ottomans wouldn't defend Austria in a war to protect their tributary. Neither would Kazan, Crimea, or the Golden Horde defend Muscovy. War reparations are more representative of what happened with them, though still not perfect.
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It just means that the feature needs adjustments such as some tributaries which u defend and some that u dont.
 
Savoll said:
I believe that the "Emperor of China" is like the holy roman emperor and china will i think be divided like the HRE!
But that's my theory.
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It's kind of like the HRE, but Ming is still Ming. I'd advise checking out the dev clash or the thread mentioned in the DD for more info on it
 
1) Is tributary counts to "control all culture group" thing in age sistem?
2) What will happend if you make in to tributary country who have their tributary?
 
I think you should reconsider you consideration on Muscovy being a tributary.

Muscovy was a tributary to the Great Horde (under the Tartar Yoke) until 1480, 36 years after the game starts. Sure, The Great/Golden Horde was in decline, but Muscovy should have to break the Yoke. It ended with a standoff in which the horde couldn't fight the Rus (they couldn't cross the river: the Russians had firearms, and the Tartars had none) and eventually left, and so Muscovy gained independence. An event chain could be nice here that could possibly allow for something like this, or just for now Muscovy would fight an independence war
 
Roxas15 said:
It just means that the feature needs adjustments such as some tributaries which u defend and some that u dont.
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ringhloth said:
Not really. It's just not meant to represent people paying money to temporarily placate a country after a war. That's transferring trade power, or war reparations.
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I think there should be a feature like offer/demand reparations (or tribute?), paying some small % of your income in exchange of truce when payment is given + 1 year after braking payment relationship.
 
Yugithzale said:
I see nowhere mention of the Ming or Qing empires paying their tributaries at al.. Only 'bestowing'...

This does not seem historically accurate. The Chinese demands that europeans only pay in silver was not because they loved the metal- it was becuase they were so cash strapped from paying all their tributaries massive amounts of silver.

The tribute system worked like this historically- whatever you gave to China- you received back ten fold. So while it makes sense that a tributary might send admin points or prestige or even legitmacy.

It makes NO sense for them to send money. The Tributary system should require the Ming to actually send their new subjects money. As was historically the case and eventually caused the ming to go basically bankrupt.
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Yes and no. It's true that in early Ming period, when the new dynasty was growing a reputation in the world, tributary missions generated a significant loss for Chinese side. It is also true that the frequent and massive tributary missions from Tumed and Ordos Mongols in late Ming again placed a great burden on the treasury. However, during Yongle times and after tributary missions were mutualy beneficial for both China and its tributaries. Basically the tribute was the only way for merchants to trade abroad in any significant capacity. This was also the only way, short of war, to get ahold of horses, furs, ginseng, Tibetan tea and other products for domestic consumption. In fact tributary missions generated a net profit for Ming for a long time.

Though it's true that introduction of silver from Mexico was a major reason for Ming economy to collapse.
 
ringhloth said:
Not really. It's just not meant to represent people paying money to temporarily placate a country after a war. That's transferring trade power, or war reparations.
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u should be able then to get 10% of someones income just by threatening them and not just for few years after having a war. the term for that is paying tribute, so it should be part of the feature.
 
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