[BlackUmbrellas]

I would argue that you have a very rigid definition of a term "hive mind".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Group_mind_(science_fiction)

If you want to talk about swarm intelligence, something we actually see in nature, we can talk about that. But that is a distinct thing from a hive mind- hive minds are a fictional concept. Xenomorphs don't really display a hive mind. They're also irrelevant for trying to model an empire in Stellaris off of- because they're animals with no spacefaring capacity.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

If animals that live in a hive don't have a hive mind to you, I think you have a pretty useless definition of hive mind. Obviously in real life they're not psionic, but their instincts drve them to serve the queen at the expense of everything else, and most if not all bees follow this instinctive drive. There's no reason to necessarily imagine the hive minds in stellaris are psionic, that's just fluff.

Swarm intelligence is real- it is also distinct from a "hive mind". "Hive mind" is a pop-culture term referring to something that doesn't actually exist in nature. Bees or ants aren't so much "serving the queen" as the queen just occupied a reproductive caste role. Ants will kill their queens or imprison them if they misbehave. Bees have individual personalities. There's no such thing as a "hive that slavishly obeys its queen as an extension of her" in nature.

 

[Person012345]

Swarm intelligence is real- it is also distinct from a "hive mind". "Hive mind" is a pop-culture term referring to something that doesn't actually exist in nature.

I disagree. I think you're making a sharper distinction than actually exists. Yes, it may be something that only exists fully in fiction, but I don't think there's a clear boundry between swarm intelligence and hive mind.

 

[Purussaurus]

Awesome!

The game needs the option to choose the trais of the initial ruler, please.

 

[Setho]

@Wiz I've been wondering, is it possible to be fanatical purifiers and also be able to access The Shroud? I have a role play idea where a species wants to destroy ALL life (including their own species) by making a covenant with The End of the Cycle from The Shroud.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

I disagree. I think you're making a sharper distinction than actually exists. Yes, it may be something that only exists fully in fiction, but I don't think there's a clear boundry between swarm intelligence and hive mind.

Pop culture pretty consistently depicts hive minds as mindless drones serving a centralized intelligence, be it an incorporeal entity or a queen- that's just not reflected by anything in reality. The term is misleading to use in reference to nature and "swarm intelligence" is a much more relevant and accurate concept to call on in such discussions.

If you want to talk about hive minds, we can- but the term is meaningless when referring to actual eusocial organisms.

 

[Princess Stabbity]

@Wiz I've been wondering, is it possible to be fanatical purifiers and also be able to access The Shroud? I have a role play idea where a species wants to destroy ALL life (including their own species) by making a covenant with The End of the Cycle from The Shroud.

You can't (without mods) start on the psionic ascension path unless you're a Spiritualist. FP's ethos doesn't include it.

But you can in theory start as F.Xenophobes-Spiritualists, pick up Psionic Theory (required to start the psionic ascension), then try to switch your Spiritualist to Militarist and eventually reform your government to add the Fanatic Purifiers civic. While the Shroud is accessible from the Contacts tab, it's not really diplomacy so I don't see why you couldn't interact with it. I mean being an Awakened Empire's subject also disables most diplomacy but you can still communicate with Enclaves and such.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Going back a bit here's what the game currently considers "Fanatic Purifiers cannot engage in diplomacy" to mean, taken from the wiki:

• 
  Threat concern
• 
  Trade
• 
  Defensive pact acceptance
• 
  Federation acceptance
• 
  Migration acceptance
• 
  NAP acceptance

 

[DutchTheGuy]

I would also like to see that the fanatical purifiers don't require you to have the militarist ethic, just so you can get some spiritualist Emperium of Man action in there aswell.

 

[Endy]

If animals that live in a hive don't have a hive mind to you, I think you have a pretty useless definition of hive mind. Obviously in real life they're not psionic, but their instincts drve them to serve the queen at the expense of everything else, and most if not all bees follow this instinctive drive. There's no reason to necessarily imagine the hive minds in stellaris are psionic, that's just fluff.

Animals who live in a hive don't have a hive mind because they simply don't have a mind. They can show swarm intelligence in their behaviour, but intelligent behaviour is not the same as what we usually refer as a mind. By contrast, sci-fi hive minds are consistently described as having, well, a real mind, with self-awareness, agency, personality, etc. Sometimes they are described as mindless drones controlled by an fully intelligent "queen" (Ender's Game for example), sometimes the mind is presented as an emergent property of the individuals, the first sort being more common, although IMO less interesting. (Hive minds first appeared in american sci-fi in the 70s as a metaphor of communism and the USSR, which may explain this.)

Worker bees don't "serve the queen at the expense of everything else". The queen is just another component of the hive whose purpose is reproduction. It is an important component and the queen is basically a single point of failure, so it makes sense that caring for her and protecting her is very important in the bees' behaviour. But nobody "serves" the queen and the queen has no authority or direct influence on workers - every bee, queen or not, is just behaving according to its genetic program and local environment.

 

[Curator Sapidianus]

But that is a distinct thing from a hive mind- hive minds are a fictional concept.

Nope, that term isnt exclusive to science fiction but also used in many popular science articles.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/you-have-a-hive-mind/

Hive mind is a broad and generic term that can be a synonym for a swarm intelligence or a universal mind depending on circumstances of it's use. Please, read some Wittgenstein first, then argue about semantics of such broad terms.

 

[I am Sovereign]

Um, what? Xeno is used (which just means other in some old language, I forget which) with various suffixes, but I've never seen Xenomorph used.

greek : ) something not to forget.

Xenomorph in alien.
Cant remember if it was ever mentioned in the films but I do recall that the term xenomorph was frequently used in the various books of the franchise. In the end "xenomorphing" is what the "aliens" do. They infest and breed "alien forms" (xenomorphs) of their victims.

Xenomorph in stellaris.
One of the upgrades for armys is called xenomorphs.
Something easly to be overseen.

 

[DutchTheGuy]

Is there a Roman Empire type of Government? With an Emperor and a Senate and/or constitutional monarchys? You know, best of both worlds etc.

you do know that the Roman Empire wasn't really all that much senate when it became, ya know, the Empire. The senate had way less power and was basicly a set of old people discussing useless topics due to the Emperor having all the power.

 

[TheDarkMaster]

I would also like to see that the fanatical purifiers don't require you to have the militarist ethic, just so you can get some spiritualist Emperium of Man action in there aswell.

I was thinking the same thing. I'm fairly sure that the current fanatic purifiers require either militarist or spiritualist in addition to fanatic xenophobe.

 

[DutchTheGuy]

They actually require Fan. Xenophobe and militarist as of right now, however for their personality in the current game you just need Fan. Xenophobe and indeed either spiritualist or militarist.

 

[Caspoi]

I was thinking the same thing. I'm fairly sure that the current fanatic purifiers require either militarist or spiritualist in addition to fanatic xenophobe.

According to the wiki it is collectivist rather than spiritualist (which is supported by the fact that when I do see spiritualist fanatical xenophobes in the game they are usually evangelizing zealots). But I nevertheless agree and think that assuming that you are not egeletarianist or pacifist being a fanatical xenophobe should be the only requirement.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

Nope, that term isnt exclusive to science fiction but also used in many popular science articles.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/you-have-a-hive-mind/

Hive mind is a broad and generic term that can be a synonym for a swarm intelligence or a universal mind depending on circumstances of it's use. Please, read some Wittgenstein first, then argue about semantics of such broad terms.

Conflating the two terms is needlessly misleading and unhelpful- IRL, we have swarm intelligences. In faction, we have hive-minds. "Hive mind" calls to the imagination a very particular arrangement, and using the term to refer to things in nature (or in fiction which the arrangement does not fit) misinforms people of what those things act like.

 

[BlackUmbrellas]

They actually require Fan. Xenophobe and militarist as of right now, however for their personality in the current game you just need Fan. Xenophobe and indeed either spiritualist or militarist.

Nope. In-game, right now, it's Militarist or Collectivist. Spiritualist does not produce Fanatic Purifier behaviour.

 

[I am Sovereign]

Nope. In-game, right now, it's Militarist or Collectivist. Spiritualist does not produce Fanatic Purifier behaviour.

I would like to see more then just one ethic set up to be able to choose the fanatical purifier civic.
Authoritarian/ fanatical xenopbobes sounds logical.

Maybe they didnt wanted to brandmark authoritarians automatically "evil" as it was the case with collectivists (best ethic for slavery and purging).

 

[Curator Sapidianus]

Conflating the two terms is needlessly misleading and unhelpful- IRL, we have swarm intelligences. In faction, we have hive-minds. "Hive mind" calls to the imagination a very particular arrangement, and using the term to refer to things in nature (or in fiction which the arrangement does not fit) misinforms people of what those things act like.

Maybe be for you "Hive mind" calls to the imagination a very particular arrangement, but only for you and similiar minded individuals. It may not mean the same to other people and you have no right to decide what such a term means. Lots of resources including wikipedia consider Xenomorphs to have a hive mind and you can't force your personal opinion on people just because they disagree with semantics.