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EU4 - Development Diary - 28th of February 2017

Good day everyone, Tuesday spells for us a new EU4 Development Diary and while certain members are away enjoying the high life at GDC, it falls to me to bring you today's juicy serving of new mechanics.

As teased last week, we shall look closer at the Empire of China, a new concept in the upcoming expansion. In 1444, Ming is busy being the top dog in Asia and indeed the world, but they were not the first to claim Mandate over China and certainly not the last. We are not even one hundred years from the total collapse of the Yuan domination of china and only two hundred years shy of the successor nation Qing.

An important goal for us is to bring new play experiences across the world. Previously as a nation in East Asia, one would generally wait for Ming to crumble to rebellions, usually from loss of the Mandate of Heaven modifier (or a lot of horses and a good shock phase), and then pick up the pieces from this "Mingsplosion" or playing as Ming, simply do everything in your power to avoid falling into aforementioned deadly Spiral. This isn't quite how we would like East Asia to play out. We wish to bring the whole experience to life In the upcoming expansion, as the Empire of China is now a title that is fought for!

eu4_123.png


Where to begin? Our glorious Ming Starts in 1444 with the Celestial throne with a moderate Mandate value. Mandate will grow over time supposing stability is high, States are prosperous and you have an extensive collection of Tributaries. Protect it well, since it will have a large effect on how well your nation will function: Provincial devastation and bordering nations who are not your Tributary or otherwise bending their knee to you will cause Mandate to suffer. At Maximum mandate, The emperor of China will enjoy unrest reduction and cheaper stability cost. Conversely, as Mandate goes down below 50, you will find your troops performing worse and your provinces producing fewer goods, as the people you supposedly rule over with Divine grace back you less and less.

Mandate can be used to pass Celestial Reforms. Not unlike the Holy roman Empire, The Emperor of China must foster the growth of their mandate and spend it to gain some fantastic bonuses. Each Reform can be taken at 80+ Mandate, each will reduce Mandate by 50 and Stability by 1.
  • Introduce Gaituguiliu
    • +0.5 Meritocracy
  • Reform Seaban
    • +1 Diplomats
    • +5% trade Efficiency
  • Delegate Zongdu
    • -0.05 Monthly autonomy
  • Establish Lifan Yuan
    • -10% Core creation Cost
  • Reshape Beurocratic Ranks
    • +1 Monarch Admin Power
Additionally, hawk-eyed readers will have spotted a new Hat in the top bar. Celestial Emperors do not use the Legitimacy values since they are all obviously legit. The Emperor instead has unique access to Meritocracy. This will naturally degrade every year but increases by having skilled advisors in your court. It is then spent on the 6 Decrees, also uniquely available to the Emperor of China.

  • Expand Palace Bureaucracy
    • -10% Development cost
    • -10% core Creation Cost
  • Conduct Population Census
    • +25% National Tax
  • Promote Naval Officers
    • +20% ship durability
  • Increase Tariff Control
    • +25% Provincial trade Power
  • Improve Defense Effort
    • +25% Fort Defense
  • Boost the Officer Corps
    • +10% Infantry Combat Ability
Each Decree lasts for 10 years, costs 20 Meritocracy and, of course, all values are subject to balance up until release, but that's par for the course.

So life is good for the Ming the Celestial Emperor. China is theirs, their tribute flows in regularly and they pass reforms and decrees as they see fit. Well, no single Empire lasts forever.

eu4_126.png


The Celestial throne is there for any Pagan or Eastern Religion nation to secure for themselves. In practice, The Northern Hordes, the Japanese, the Koreans and the Buddhists are all in with a fair shot at securing the title for themselves and have access to a new Casus Belli: Take Mandate of Heaven. Land is cheaper to take in this war. Far cheaper, and it will allow the attacker to secure the Throne for themselves. When this happens, all previous reforms are wiped and the new ruler will start with moderate Mandate themselves. After all, there is only one China and all history from before did not exist. The new Emperor of China will have to quickly establish themselves with their own tributaries and bring Prosperity to the people of China to avoid the fate of their disposed Predecessor. The failed old Emperor of China shall be subjected to the Lost Mandate of Heaven modifier in addition to losing their Empire of China modifiers. Better take care of them, before they collect themselves and put their mind to reclaiming their old throne.

The successful claimant will also enjoy permanent claim on all of China to help consolidate their new power, as our Dai Viet player @Ihki was putting to great effect.

eu4_124.png


Best of luck with your fight to secure the Mandate for yourself. We'll be back next week to talk about another new feature which has our team lamenting any moment that they have to play without it. See you then!
 
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"...bordering nations who are not tributaries or otherwise bending their knees to you will cause Mandate to suffer..."
NOT being the key there, you lose mandate for not collecting tribute from your neighbors.
 
It's a more prestigious title in Asian historiography.
I'm not sure the japanese would agree with that. Especially not if the shogun conquers china.
 
Sounds good and all, but I gotta ask will there be any new formables included with the emperor mechanic? Would love to see a (re)form Yuan decision for Mongolia if they can claim the mandate. Could be nice to have some for other nearby nations such as Korea and Dai Viet should they be able to take it too.
 
It seems decent, but game play ways, it is simply one more reason for European countries to avoid Asia. At this point, the game mechanics are strongly pushing people playing Europeans to simply avoid Asia almost all together.
 
But what do you do if you're a regional player that isn't Ming? You can't attack Ming because they're even more powerful than they were before (Banners are nice but even if they offset all the bonuses Ming is getting here, it'll still leave you where you are today -- waiting for a Mingsplosion). You can't readily attack Ming tributaries because Ming will come to their defense, so you still can't instigate a Mingsplosion. Well, I guess you can, if you attack tributary allies that aren't themselves tributaries and then pay the enormous cost to absorb them in peace deals, all to try to slowly eat away at Ming's mandate.

Or wait, tributaries can attack each other without Ming interfering, right? So I guess that means the strategy is to be a tributary, absorb every other tributary in range, then end your tributary status and hope you survive long enough for that to cause Ming to explode. Risky, but maybe viable and potentially interesting. Maybe try to time it at a ruler's death where stability might be lower?

It's like a weird Nega-HRE, where you want to invade within the collective yet still avoid the scary emperor.

I wonder if Ming will make a habit of allying its tributaries? If not, that might make invading Korea a lot more viable for Manchu, which is key to acquiring Ming-crushing strength.

Yea I think the go-to strategy will be to:

1. Suck it up and become a tributary.
2. Slowly eat up the other tributaries, which not only makes you stronger but has the added bonus of weakening Ming's mandate mana income.
3. Wait for them to pass a reform, an edict, so they have low mandate and suffer nerfs.
4. Declare war for the mandate. You just have to take their capital, remember, so if they're busy on the other side of their empire you can potentially capture Beijing before they can move their armies back then play defensively.
5. Once their mandate is gone they should explode and you can gobble up all the new warring states with ease.
 
Yea I think the go-to strategy will be to:

1. Suck it up and become a tributary.
2. Slowly eat up the other tributaries, which not only makes you stronger but has the added bonus of weakening Ming's mandate mana income.
3. Wait for them to pass a reform, an edict, so they have low mandate and suffer nerfs.
4. Declare war for the mandate. You just have to take their capital, remember, so if they're busy on the other side of their empire you can potentially capture Beijing before they can move their armies back then play defensively.
5. Once their mandate is gone they should explode and you can gobble up all the new warring states with ease.
Taking ther capital doesn't instantly end the war...
 
I know, but its not an impossible task to take one province from Ming and defend it until your warscore ticks up. A lot easier than trying to waste enough of their manpower and destabilize them and hoping thats enough like you have to do now if you're trying to force the Mingsplosion.
 
Establish Lifan Yuan
-10% Core creation Cost
Expand Palace Bureaucracy
-10% Development cost
-10% core Creation Cost
This seems...fair. [/s]
The Celestial throne is there for any Pagan or Eastern Religion nation
I understand the intent being to allow for hordes and Ryu to claim if strong enough, and I'm certainly not opposed to Fetishist/Aztec/Mayan/Inca/Iroquois/Haida having the option if they can make it over there, but I wonder if this doesn't make flipping to Pagan too powerful (I know, it sounds weird to even say that sentence, doesn't it).
The successful claimant will also enjoy permanent claim on all of China to help consolidate their new power
Will the successful claimant also become eligible for the Chinese Unification CB, or will they need to obtain those permanent claims in other ways?
The Catholic event still exists, and it is possible to switch and maintain the Celestial Throne
Excellent. *steeples fingertips*
The Celestial Reforms themselves are standalone, there is no unite the HRE style Finale
That's probably a good thing.
Nice catch, Meritocracy affects spy detection chance and advisor cost, from -50% detection and +25% cost at 0 Meritocracy, to +50% detection and -25% cost at 100 Meritocracy.
So its only real use is to spend things on, then. As a human player, I'm not going to keep a stat high for either of those two things.
The 50% Autonomy floor from Celestial Empire Government (Which is adopted by whoever is the Emperor of China) Is Dead. No more Autonomy just because you're China.
This is good, though I do share concerns with others about how it works in practice. Hopefully the tributary system is as effective as advertised. Fingers crossed.
By default, the Ming Factions are in game
If you own the upcoming DLC, you get the Empire of China mechanics replacing them.
Given that the autonomy floor and factions no longer exist, is the prohibition on estates still in effect? On balance, I suspect it is better if it is, but I remain curious what decision was made.
Also why would Ryukyu eliminate the Empire of China? Isn't Ryukyu eligible to be Emperor themselves ("every Pagan or Eastern country").
Because it's Jake, and all must bow to Ryukyu. :p
Claiming the Mandate for yourself costs 50% Warscore and is a new peace treaty available with the CB.
Is it possible to only take land without claiming the Mandate, or can you only claim land if you claim the Mandate (similar to how you cannot claim land in an Independence war without also demanding independence)?
The Celestial Empire cannot change government :)
Oh ye of little faith! Let's assume, hypothetically, that your government changed. Would you still remain Emperor of China?
If you stop being the emperor of China however you also lose the government form.
Helpful, thanks.
And what happens if I start the revolution? Will I lose the celestial empire status and Emperor of China mechanic, just lose meritocracy and stay Emperor, or no revolution at all (which would be silly imo)?
Quoting in hopes we get an answer.
Will there be any estates for the Celestial Empire now that the factions are being removed?
Quoting in hopes we get an answer.
The factions are not removed. They have new names though which is somewhat more factual and true compared to the old one. The Temple faction is now "Commanderies of the Five Armies," The Eunuch faction is now "Offices of Maritime Trade," and the Bureaucrat faction is now "Grand Secretariat."
Given that I don't see a developer or moderator flag on your post anywhere, and @DDRJake told us in this DD that he posted that factions are going away if one has the new DLC, you're going to have to clarify how it is you know that.
1. No, however lack of presence in China proper can lead to a Mandate-consuming disaster.

2. They will remain the existing Emperor. Only annexation or having the position taken from you will boot you off your throne.
Interesting. Good to know, thanks.
 
I understand the intent being to allow for hordes and Ryu to claim if strong enough, and I'm certainly not opposed to Fetishist/Aztec/Mayan/Inca/Iroquois/Haida having the option if they can make it over there, but I wonder if this doesn't make flipping to Pagan too powerful (I know, it sounds weird to even say that sentence, doesn't it).
Buddhist suddenly became a pretty attractive religion to convert into.

I can't believe I am saying that.
 
Second question: What keeps whomever is China from expanding too much? With the autonomy nerf and all these potential bonuses available, China could be far more assertive.
This new Ming comes without autonomy limiters.
So you are fighting a unified HRE at 1444. China has very few states for its size, so all can be full states rather than territories.
The banners mechanics is extremely strong though, so I guess for AI vs AI it will become a Horde vs Ming battle, fairly historical though, since China was never conquered by Korea or Japan or Vietnam or Tibet.

You need to look at this in context. Number of states in China has increased and your state limit has decreased, meaning a lot of provinces will be at 75% autonomy, especially if you expand a lot.

This is an awesome mechanic. I for one would also love a Yuan tag if any of the non manchu Hordes (Mongols, Oirats etc) manage to claim the Mandate of Heaven

Reforming an old dynasty is not really a thing in East Asia, IE, the Manchus were known as Later Jin, but upon becoming emperor of China they declared the Qing dynasty.
 
People complaining about the Qing-hat, while the hat for the Western military tech-group is a tricorn, which wasn't even used till much later in eu4's timeline. As well as the monarchy symbol being a crown, while not even all monarchies had such a crown.

Such complaints are just cute.

Then maybe you should complain about that with Paradox and get them to change it, instead of bringing other people down no?

I mean this is a thread about East Asian mechanics in an expansion which is going to cost money, so... why wouldn't I want them to put in content that I want?

If you don't want the crown and tricorn symbol, what do you suggest, and why not make a thread about that instead of spamming here, which provides nothing beneficial to the discussion?
 
Right???
And since Confucianism is getting buffed, I'm starting to think that might be attractive too...
Once you stack enough reduced core cost reduction, the Buddhist unique "no DIP costs for most actions" starts to look really really nice...

Its very DIP-expensive to shred an HRE coalition using the cobelligerent trick. For buddhists its free
 
Then maybe you should complain about that with Paradox and get them to change it, instead of bringing other people down no?

I mean this is a thread about East Asian mechanics in an expansion which is going to cost money, so... why wouldn't I want them to put in content that I want?

If you don't want the crown and tricorn symbol, what do you suggest, and why not make a thread about that instead of spamming here, which provides nothing beneficial to the discussion?
I think the point he was going for was that it's not a big deal. It's a little symbol that you will hardly ever look at when the main focus is the number next to it.
I honestly don't think he really cares about the tricorne or the crown, and I honestly believe that there are many things that are more pressing than what shape the hat button is.
 
I think the point he was going for was that it's not a big deal. It's a little symbol that you will hardly ever look at when the main focus is the number next to it.
I honestly don't think he really cares about the tricorne or the crown, and I honestly believe that there are many things that are more pressing than what shape the hat button is.

Well ya, that's a given. I mean we are on a video game forum talking about imaginary mechanics in a strategy make belief game while there are starving children all over the world and people getting blown to bits because of war and poverty. So pretty much everything is more important than whatever's discussed here.
 
I,emperor of China, Ryukyu, HRE and People of Rome, approve.

So the three mountain achievement becomes easier ?