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The Great Artillery Discussion

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77Hawk77 said:
Hopefully never, If the game is done right I'd like to see groups of 4 tanks return as the base unit like it was in EE for non heavies. It's a sign of the bad meta in Red Dragon, that grouping units was a noob trap. If you have 16 tanks in Steel division, just think of it as 4 units of 4 tanks. Then it's no more micro than 4 heavies in Red dragon already was. :)
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Yes please. Tanks don't drive around wrecking stuff up by themselves, they always coordinate in their platoon, and work as a part of a company.
 
The EE method of artillery fire correction is I think too inflexible.

I think the best way is to have Artillery display 2 circles when you order them to fire.

The first circle indicates where the rounds are likely to fall.

The second, bigger circle indicates an area which is now pre-sighted due to the first barrage. Ordering further artillery strikes in that area gives them increased accuracy and possibly faster aim time.

This second circle only appears if the zone of impact is within LOS of a unit with a radio.

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I'd like arty to be inaccurate when there is no forward observer, but with an observer (special unit, not everyone) they should be able to hit the designated area reliably, depending on the arty piece.

Their accuracy, power and rate of fire should depend on caliber, distance and crew veterancy and real life data if available. They should never be able to hit with pinpoint accuracy of RD arty.

But even though it could prove devastating,it is also a big logistical undertaking and most powerful arty should take more resources to be maintained.
 
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UltimateIdiot said:
I liked RD artillery. After all, it is powerful in real life, a 155m howitzer shrapnel is (moderately) dangerous out to 400m, guns are accurate and forward observing is done via digital calculators. I've no problem that the game reflects that.

In WW2 era, however, the guns were less accurate, and the methods available to forward observers were less sophisticated, requiring more guns on target, saturation and artillery being slower to react. For ex. on their sector the Brits faced heavy resistance and were forced to use creeping barrages to cover their infantry advance through the bocage.
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In RD the top tier arty is simply funny and OP. They are on the level of LGB in terms of ACC which in RL has some meter of CEP while in RL even the best arty in range at max. range has about 150 m CEP...

The 400 m what you wrote is totally theoretical. In RL if an 155 arty shell lands you from 100 m you are almost perfectly safe. The chance to be hit from a small shrapnel from 100 m or even higher is very unlikely and their pen. power dorps down fast with increasing distance.
 
molnibalage said:
In RD the top tier arty is simply funny and OP. They are on the level of LGB in terms of ACC which in RL has some meter of CEP while in RL even the best arty in range at max. range has about 150 m CEP...

The 400 m what you wrote is totally theoretical. In RL if an 155 arty shell lands you from 100 m you are almost perfectly safe. The chance to be hit from a small shrapnel from 100 m or even higher is very unlikely and their pen. power dorps down fast with increasing distance.
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While I have never measured, from size of aiming circle I would say RD top tier 155mm arty does seem to have roughly around 100-150 m CEP.
That said, obviously in RL you would normally have whole battery engaging larger troop concentration, instead of single gun trawling hedges for command jeep.
 
olm said:
While I have never measured, from size of aiming circle I would say RD top tier 155mm arty does seem to have roughly around 100-150 m CEP.
That said, obviously in RL you would normally have whole battery engaging larger troop concentration, instead of single gun trawling hedges for command jeep.
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Nope, far, far less about 50m. You can socre almost direct hits.
 
Make Artillery Spam Great Again.

In general, I hope "barrage" related stuff can be more spammable, but significantly less accurate. I don't feel like a player should expect much from having a single artillery piece, and artillery were still historically the backbone of the military at this time. Artillery should be cheap to spawn in, but not any cheaper to maintain. Artillery I think should be where the main drain for logistical supply should go to, keeping cannons loaded for long barrages, and making them valuable yet hard-to-defend key targets.

However, "spammable" should be taken with a grain of salt. It shouldn't be RUSE levels of ridiculous with how much artillery you can make. Batteries shouldn't have more than about 7-12 cannons in them, and if you are really "spamming" artillery, then you should really be playing an artillery brigade and not expecting much in your arsenal in the way of tanks and planes.
 
molnibalage said:
In RD the top tier arty is simply funny and OP. They are on the level of LGB in terms of ACC which in RL has some meter of CEP while in RL even the best arty in range at max. range has about 150 m CEP...

The 400 m what you wrote is totally theoretical. In RL if an 155 arty shell lands you from 100 m you are almost perfectly safe. The chance to be hit from a small shrapnel from 100 m or even higher is very unlikely and their pen. power dorps down fast with increasing distance.
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Naturally the chance of getting hit go down as distance grows. However that doesn't remove the fact that it is lethal to a long range, and 100m is way too low a range for that, although it depends heavily on terrain and where the shell is coming from. There's also the fact that you rarely get bombarded by a single shell - there's going to be more, so the chance of getting hit goes up.

And 155m artillery CEP is 50-200m at max range. Depending, again, on terrain, guns, shells, range, FO accuracy, and so on and so forth. But hitting a guy straight on the nose isn't that far-fetched.
 
I'm curious about how counterbattery fire will be, most artillery will be on foot wich means low mobility, so if the aim time is relatively short then counterbattery will be very efective. If aim time is long, then it will only be usefull against very entrenched armies.
It's a win-win situation for players that hate static and sitzkrieg games like me :D.
 
The_Meme_Man said:
Make Artillery Spam Great Again.

In general, I hope "barrage" related stuff can be more spammable, but significantly less accurate. I don't feel like a player should expect much from having a single artillery piece, and artillery were still historically the backbone of the military at this time. Artillery should be cheap to spawn in, but not any cheaper to maintain. Artillery I think should be where the main drain for logistical supply should go to, keeping cannons loaded for long barrages, and making them valuable yet hard-to-defend key targets.

However, "spammable" should be taken with a grain of salt. It shouldn't be RUSE levels of ridiculous with how much artillery you can make. Batteries shouldn't have more than about 7-12 cannons in them, and if you are really "spamming" artillery, then you should really be playing an artillery brigade and not expecting much in your arsenal in the way of tanks and planes.
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It would be nice if you could switch between barrage and sustained, 2 rpm/ for sustained, and more for a barrage.
 
77Hawk77 said:
It would be nice if you could switch between barrage and sustained, 2 rpm/ for sustained, and more for a barrage.
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That would be nice. Perhaps an ability to toggle between various kinds of artillery fire, like the moving and creeping barrage, standing barrage, box barrage, etc. The kinds of barrages that you would otherwise have to micro, and would normally expect to just give a one-of order that an artillery crew would know how to execute without babysitting.
 
Baron_Mijail said:
I'm curious about how counterbattery fire will be, most artillery will be on foot wich means low mobility, so if the aim time is relatively short then counterbattery will be very efective. If aim time is long, then it will only be usefull against very entrenched armies.
It's a win-win situation for players that hate static and sitzkrieg games like me :D.
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Ideally, artillery in this game will actually need to take some time to set up and limber, that way even slow-aiming artillery still has time to land shots on a battery if they were already set up in range. Self propelled guns would have a serious advantage, justifying a higher cost.

Hopefully, self propelled guns are ALSO susceptible to getting killed quickly by artillery. They were open topped, and their armor wasn't that good. Their main advantage should be not requiring a limber, and being able to execute an order in mere seconds and then move to escape the counterbarrage.
 
Killertomato said:
It would be nice if we could allow artillery to take extra time to aim in exchange for being able to hit "point" city block targets, or for it to be able to become more accurate with every round when firing on a target in LOS.
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That really depends on the range the artillery is firing. If you were to use for example 10.5 cm leFH 18 firing at a target (house) from a range of 7-8km, even if you get the perfect elevation and range it still might miss due to various factors (temperature, earth rotation, wind, weather conditions etc.) This could be implemented at short ranges but i doubt it would be useful because units are already very accurate at short ranges.
 
ACika011 said:
That really depends on the range the artillery is firing. If you were to use for example 10.5 cm leFH 18 firing at a target (house) from a range of 7-8km, even if you get the perfect elevation and range it still might miss due to various factors (temperature, earth rotation, wind, weather conditions etc.) This could be implemented at short ranges but i doubt it would be useful because units are already very accurate at short ranges.
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I meant an entire city block, not an individual house within a city block. It's a muuuuch larger target.
 
I would like the option to specify the art CEP, whether (when LOS is established) to use a saturation, or more pin-point art barrage.

It always irked me a little bit that sometimes the LOS accuracy bonus given to art meant that the spread was less and thus would often miss moving or multiple targets
 
Would rather have EE Artillery since a ALB arty was literally useless.
 
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