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Schlieffen

Crusty Old Medieval German Baron
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Nov 21, 2001
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Merchants and Monarchs

Inspired by the old Merchant Prince DOS game, I'm seeing if there's any interest in an EURPG-style game with a dual focus: One half realm-based politics and warfare, the other half merchant dynasties/republics and trade.

Unlike the previous RPGs, there will be a set of "Victory" conditions, and when enough are triggered the game will end. Some of the major victory conditions might be having a realm that controls 5 major capitals, a Center of Trade having access to almost every good, or a player having a monopoly on spice trade in several European capitals. In addition to giving players goals to strive for, these also will help break up the usual "Ally with everyone" gameplay that can make these games stagnate. Letting us occasionally restart the game is also a plus: As fun as the most successful iterations have been, I don't think we're ready to have another half-decade long game. Of course, just role-playing for the sake of it is always encouraged as well. :)

The game also won't be quite so strict on history or as detailed as some EURPG iterations have been: We're going to be stretching plausibility a little bit so you don't need a degree in European History to play, and there won't be any massive spreadsheets just to fight a single battle.


This is just an interest check at this point. Mostly I'm wondering a few things about potential players:
• Is there any interest, either for the realm or merchant roles?
• Any suggestions for a starting date?
• Should the start be limited to Europe? The entire Old World will be available either way, limiting to Europe makes exploration an option and keeps realms more focused so detail can be a little higher.
• Should merchant players control a Republic, a Family within a Republic, or just a Merchant Family/Company from any country? This can really change how players interact with each other, so I'm interested in what potential players think.
• General suggestions or what you're interested in.
 
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I don't think the Hansa has gotten enough love lately. Maybe some time in the 14th century with Denmark and the Hansa facing off?
 
Obviously interested.

This is just an interest check at this point. Mostly I'm wondering a few things about potential players:
• Is there any interest, either for the realm or merchant roles?

I'm willing to do either, dependant on scenario and other players of course.

• Any suggestions for a starting date?



• Should the start be limited to Europe? The entire Old World will be available either way, limiting to Europe makes exploration an option and keeps realms more focused so detail can be a little higher.

I'd say limited at least early on into Europe, but with possibility of player involvement expanding the scope within realistic measures.

• Should merchant players control a Republic, a Family within a Republic, or just a Merchant Family/Company from any country? This can really change how players interact with each other, so I'm interested in what potential players think.

A good question, and really the crux of the matter.

I'd say lets set this for start in the Mediterranean in late medieval/early renaissance with the Genoese, Venetians and possibly Pisan republics at their 'height'. Then players pick which republic they want to play in, or if there's lot of interest and it can be managed players divide up as families for each of the republics?
 
I'd be interested in a merchant family-focused game, for it would probably produce the most interesting player interaction (what with feuds and commercial competition).
 
There's always a soft spot in my heart for making buttloads of money in games. So, if the mechanics are interesting, I would be interested.
 
Hi! I'm the other EURPG staffer chiming in. While I am suggesting a 18th century game [details to come, for more info look at the relevant threads in the EURPG forum] there's no reason we can't go with a Merchant Princes game or even run both if there's enough player interest.

For the last couple of years we've been trying to expand the EURPG player base and we'd be very happy to put on an EURPG-style game in most any format that our fellow Paradoxians on the OT Games forum would be willing to play. :)
 
I have a first draft of the rules that I think might actually be complete. I still need to play with the numbers and how things will be managed, but I'm actually feeling pretty good about this. :)

Basics
A new turn starts every Saturday/Sunday. A turn doesn't represent a fixed amount of time. Instead, we move the date forward when things are quiet — usually a few months per turn, including any turns that passed when things were more active.

For stats, we use a lot of what's called the Triangular Number. The Triangular Number (TN) is 1+2+3+4... up to the number you're looking for. So the first Triangular Number is 1, the second is 3 (+2), then 6 (+3), then 10 (+4), then 15 (+5), etc., so TN(3) would be (1+2+3 = 6). The Reverse Triangular Number (RTN) is the opposite of this: RTN(6) would be 3, while RTN(5) would round down to 2.


Stats
Power [¤] is granted through owning territory. Almost every province can offer up to 3 Value, with tighter control offering the holder more. Your Power is the RTN of this total.
Power is a cap rather than something that's accumulated. 1/4 of all spent Power recovers every turn, rounded up. The same applies in reverse as well.

Wealth [ƒ] is generated by merchant players when they sell goods. All wealth is directly or indirectly generated by merchant players' trade routes, although realms always manage to find a way to take a cut of their own.
Wealth accumulates every turn. 1/10 of all unspent Wealth is lost to Inflation every turn.

Things that you can spend Power or Wealth on will be followed a number in braces with the purchase and, if there is one, upkeep price per turn. (e.g., [ƒ10/1])


Trade
Centers of Trade
A Center of Trade (CoT) handles trade for the surrounding provinces. The Level of a CoT is the RTN of how many good demands are satisfied.

A province will attach itself to the CoT with the lowest CoT Distance, which is determined as follows:
• Base (along a river): 0
• Base (along a coast): 1
• Base (other land link): 2
• Base (seazone): 3
• Other Modifiers: +X (shown on the CoT map)​


Trade Basics
Trade takes place when merchant players move goods between Centers of Trade (CoTs). All buying/selling for the CoT and its surrounding provinces are gathered in this one spot.

Goods cannot be stored between turns: If a good wasn't bought and sold then it's assumed it simply wasn't produced for lack of a buyer. The profit made through trade is generated per-turn for as long as the route is active.


Trade Routes
Merchant players each have a Home CoT where they're based. All of their trade routes need directly or indirectly link back to this CoT.

A Trade Route is a link between two CoTs. All of a player's trade routes must somehow link back to a player's Home CoT, although all goods don't need to be transported there.

Trade Routes are formed using Fleets over seazones or Caravans over land. The RTN of the distance between the CoTs is how many units are needed to move one Shipment (for naval routes, 3 river provinces count as one seazone). Every Shipment lets the player move 5 goods both ways.

Buying goods is free, but you can only buy goods if you also sell them. Only excess, locally-produced goods can be bought: If a CoT produces 2 more Silk than it demands, those 2 Silk are the only ones that can be bought. Warehouses [ƒ50/10] offer a way to form longer routes: Rather than selling the goods at the end of a route, players can store up to 20 goods per warehouse for other routes to carry. With permission, a warehouse can be used by any player.

Goods are bought/sold on a first-come, first-served basis. If you want to kick a buyer/seller out to make room for your own trade route, you're going to need to turn to the local realm to do it for you.


Goods, Demand, and Price
Goods fall into three categories: Basic Goods, Specialized Goods, and Manufactured Goods. Every province demands one of every basic good, and the CoT itself additionally demands one of every good per CoT level. Manufactured goods are unique in that they require demand for some other good(s) be met, otherwise the industry may collapse.

A CoT can consume up to twice what it demands, although this will hurt the price of the good in the CoT: The price-per-good can drop to as little as 60% in a saturated market. An additional 5% is also added to the buying price per CoT level.


Realms and Trade
Realms can impose any restrictions they want on trade mechanics within their realm: Tolls for passing through a province, a tax on goods bought/sold, etc. The GMs may require an event in some cases to handle the reaction of the realm's subjects, and we'll need to keep things managable on our end, so you should be sure to check with us before trying to implement anything.



Warfare
Units
A unit cannot be used on the same turn it is raised except in defense, which occurs automatically.

Levy [¤5/1] The basic combat unit for realms.
Fleet [ƒ50/5] The basic combat unit for warfare at sea. Merchant players can also use these for trade.
Mercenary [ƒ10/1] Career soldiers capable of warfare on land and at sea. Merchant players commonly employ these to protect their trade routes from pirates and raiders.
Caravan [ƒ20/1] Included for completeness, this is a trade-only unit for moving goods over land.


Occupation
Occupying a province requires Levies: The TN of the enemy province's value is the number of units required (so 1/3/6 Levies). Occupying armies will not participate in combat except to defend the actual province they're in. An army in hostile territory without enough Levies to occupy it will be lost at the end of the turn.

An occupied province generates no Power or goods, and trade routes cannot pass through it. Provinces also cannot link to a CoT through an occupied province.


Military Orders
Land orders are fairly simple: You give a region you wish to attack and/or defend, and your units will attempt to do so. The main restriction is that you cannot pass through hostile territory (fully neutral provinces are fine), and moving overseas requires a transport. The maximum distance an army can move in one turn is about the length of Italy.

Naval units that aren't attached to a trade route can be ordered similarly to units, just in seazones instead of provinces. Orders can include transporting Levies (1 Fleet/1 Levy), engaging enemy fleets that enter a certain area, or targetting trade routes. The maximum distance a fleet can move in one turn is about the length of the Mediterranean.


Deploying to/from Trade Routes
When a merchant player wants to deploy a unit to/from a trade route, it takes a full turn. This cannot be done on the same turn the unit was created, but units can be shuffled between trade routes at will. Freed units always appear at the home CoT.


Combat
Combat takes place in rounds. For each round, 2d6 are rolled. Rolls greater than 7 favor the attacker, rolls below favor the defender, and 7 is considered a tie. The RTN of the strength difference is added to the more powerful side's advantage, and a side with mercenaries present gets an extra point toward their advantage as well. Regardless of advantage, a 2/12 is always a winning roll.

If a side wins a round, the size of its advantage determines the number of losses it inflicts, up to 6 units. If a 2/12 is rolled, 10 losses are inflicted and combat immediately ends. Combat continues until one side has won two more rounds than the other.

In the case where it matters which unit is lost (e.g., multiple players or unit types are involved), the loss is distributed randomly.


Raiding Trade Routes
When a trade route is attacked, the mercenaries guarding that route act as defenders; if there are no mercenaries then a combat roll is made against zero units. Any defending losses are always applied to the route's trade units. This continues until the defender wins a single round.
 
I'd be up for some Hansa-type trade and exploration, especially if we start in a period where the new world has not or only just been discovered yet.
 
I'd be interested in Merchant families. I would also note that these games thrive on player interaction, so the tighter packed the better. I would therefore recommend Merchant Families across two republics.
 
I'd be up for some Hansa-type trade and exploration, especially if we start in a period where the new world has not or only just been discovered yet.
Yeah, I don't know a specific date yet, but the game is definitely going to be pre-colonial. In fact, I was thinking of having one of the game-ending conditions be a city becoming prosperous enough to trigger the Renaissance.

The big concern I have with grouping merchant players into republics is it kind of needs to be all-or-nothing: Having players based in different locations gives them ties to local realms that will protect them, and having all players in the same republic means there aren't any obvious enemies so smaller players can "latch on" to bigger ones. Splitting players between a few republics kind of invites ganging up on weaker players though, which will likely result in a feedback loop that kills any republic the moment it's too weak or doesn't have as many players as the others.
 
I would be interested in a merchants and monarchs RPG game
 
Ok, based on the situation/feedback, I'm tentatively planning for a game where all of the players are Venetian patricians: Most of the interest was in playing as a merchant, and with the proper EURPG starting up I don't want to split the more realm-based players between two games. In fact, we may even make this a single-thread game to keep things simple. :)

There will be a slight bit of alternate history: I'm thinking we'll be starting in 1000 AD, but the Great Council will already be formed. Patricians will also be fairly independent to start, so players have to actually work to enforce any laws they come up with — think Holy Roman Empire, but with everyone sharing a city. All trade will also be dependent on players, so there won't really be a silk trade until players' trade routes reach Asia. This is obviously ahistorical, but it's a lot easier than running NPC trade, keeps the players at the center of things, and makes exploration a bigger part of the game.


I'm also working on a map of Venice so players can battle over influence within the city. So that will be fun. :D
 
I love the sound of this. This game will be very interesting.
 
Venice seems like a great idea.