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EU4 - Development Diary - 14th of March 2017

Good day everyone, it's another bright and sunny day in glorious Stockholm, or rather, I wish it were. To distract from the grim grey reality of this cursed latitude let's delve into the second Religious overhaul present in Mandate of Heaven: Shintoism.

One month ago we got a Dev Diary covering changes to the Governance of Japan. As many of you I'm sure are aware, we model Japan with the strong but mechanically lacking Shinto religion. Shinto belongs in the Eastern religion group and are eligible to compete for the Celestial Throne and as part of Mandate of Heaven, Shinto nations will also have their own Isolationism mechanic.

eu4_154.jpg


Shinto nations will have an Isolationism level, 5 stages from Open Doors to Closed Doors each giving their own national effect. Japan starts in 1444 under the Ashikaga Shogunate before their Sakoku period of Isolation and as such is at an "adaptive" level. Periodically, this Isolationism level will be challenged by Incidents. Up to 8 of these Incidents can trigger throughout a campaign, depending on the situation in and around Japan.

eu4_153.jpg


Each incident can fire once per campaign and are spaced out by at least 30 years. They will spawn events giving choices on the issues they present in the vein of accepting new ideas, goods and people in Japan. Depending on how you react to these choices, your Isolationism level may draw closer towards open doors or closing off from the world as well as a 50-year modifier to your nation at the end of each Incident's event chain. Which path you wish to take is up to you and how you wish to shape your nation.

Isolationism level bonuses:

Open Doors
technology_cost = -0.05
embracement_cost = -0.1​
Adaptive
global_institution_spread = 0.1
development_cost = -0.1​
Selective Integration
idea_cost = -0.1
build_cost = -0.10​
Isolationism
culture_conversion_cost = -0.15
missionaries = 1​
Closed Doors
war_exhaustion = -0.03
stability_cost_modifier = -0.15​


eu4_152.jpg


Each Shinto nation will face these Incidents independently but the mechanic does not exist in a vacuum for each nation. The Shogun will gain a bonus to prestige for each Daimyo who has the same level of Isolationism as they do and conversely, suffer for each who does not. The Shogun has the power to force their subjects closer towards their own Isolationism level but at a great cost to their Liberty Desire.

the 8 Incidents in the game are:

  • Shushi-Gaku Neo-Confucianism
  • Nanban Trade
  • Proliferation of Firearms
  • Spread of Christianity
  • Rising Shogun Authority
  • Ikko Ikki
  • Wokou Pirates
  • Urbanization
Since each have their own triggers, it's not a given you will see all 8 if, for example, you do not get a port for Wokou Pirates or Christianity is wiped clean off the map preventing its spread.

Exciting stuff, but I want to take this opportunity to look at Japan itself too. We have spiced up Japan with map changes, new provinces and many new nation tags in the Islands, as well as re-writing a lot of the old existing events for the Japanese. Additionally, we have given unique National Ideas to all starting 1444 Japanese nations to stand in line with our goal of revitalizing the region. I'd like to extend a thank-you to community members @chatnoir17 and @Grand Historian for their extensive contributions towards these. Suggestions are always appreciated towards the development of our games.

I'll share just a few of these Idea Groups with you who enjoy reading our script files:

Code:
UES_ideas = {  #Uesugi
    start = {
        army_tradition_decay = -0.01
        production_efficiency = 0.1
    }
 
    bonus = {
        infantry_power = 0.1
    }

    trigger = {
        tag = UES
    }
    free = yes
 
    ues_kanto_kanrei = {
        diplomatic_upkeep = 1
    }
 
    ues_yamanouchi_and_ogigayatsu_branches = {
        army_tradition = 0.5
    }

    ues_kamakura_office = {
        reinforce_cost_modifier = -0.25
    }
 
    ues_dragon_of_echigo = {
        land_morale = 0.1
    }

    ues_nokizaru = {
        spy_offence = 0.2
    }
 
    ues_agakita_shu = {
        discipline = 0.05
    }
 
    ues_denkoku_no_ji = {
        idea_cost = -0.1
    }
 

ITO_ideas = { #Ito
    start = {
        spy_offence = 0.2
        global_garrison_growth = 0.25
    }
 
    bonus = {
        global_trade_goods_size_modifier = 0.1
    }

    trigger = {
        tag = ITO
    }
    free = yes
 
    ito_gokenin_family = {
        prestige = 1
    }
    ito_alliance_with_tsuchimochi_clan = {
        free_leader_pool = 1
    }
    ito_land_of_gods_landing = {
        ae_impact = -0.1
    }
    ito_anti_shugo_movement = {
        province_warscore_cost = -0.05
        core_creation = -0.1
    }
    ito_network_of_fourtyeight_fortifications = {
        defensiveness = 0.2
    }
    ito_sympathy_to_christians = {
        tolerance_heathen = 2
    }
    ito_foresty_development = {
        build_cost = -0.1
    }
}

TTI_ideas = { #Tsutsui
    start = {
        defensiveness = 0.2
        land_morale = 0.1
    }
 
    bonus = {
        global_missionary_strength = 0.02
    }

    trigger = {
        tag = TTI
    }
    free = yes
 
    tti_warrior_monk = {
        infantry_power = 0.1
    }
 
    tti_winner_of_eikyo_civil_war = {
        war_exhaustion = -0.01
        prestige_from_land = 0.25
    }
 
    tti_kasuga_shrine = {
        prestige = 1
    }
 
    tti_mountainous_province = {
        hostile_attrition = 1
    }
 
    tti_nara_city = {
        legitimacy = 1
    }
 
    tti_wise_opportunist = {
        ae_impact = -0.1
    }
 
    tti_kofukuji_temple = {
        idea_cost = -0.1
    }
}

Map Changes, new nations and new National Ideas are all free parts of the 1.20 update, while all things Isolation related are paid feature of the upcoming Mandate of Heaven Expansion, which releases for $19.99 on April 6th 2017

That wraps up Japan and Shintoism nicely, and next week we will be talking about an extremely exciting feature which is going to truly make your Diplomats work for their non-existent salaries. See you then!
 
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They ran out of space, the game supports a only like 5 possible event responses so they can't add any without taking away some choices(which they did at least once)

Isn't there a mod that adds in like thirty different choice for the comet event?
 
I'm on my phone now but from memory in 1444:

Tripura, Ethiopian Minors

Garhwal gets a set in 1.20.
Could you please add Bukharan Ideas while you're at it? I've been waiting for them ever since Wealth of Nations when they were promised for "next expansion".

On another note, is anyone else hoping for an achievement for holding the Shogunate, the Celestial Throne and the HRE at the same time?

I also think it's wierd that Adapive has a bonus that's strictly worse than Open Doors when none of the other levels are strictly better or worse than the others. Is it because it's the "starting" position?
 
You should seriously rethink those Isolationism level bonuses. The "open door" ones are WAY to weak. Better institution spread and embracing is UTTERLY useless, as Japan does not even get the chance in most games to get any spread, thanks to being hated by all neighbors who could spread anything to Japan. Unless there are actually (open door) events/incidents which make an institution to be present in single provinces, the difference in tech with closed or open doors will basically be zero, which destroys the whole intention of this change.

Isn't that the point though, and the reason why RL Japan didn't bother until the 19th century?
 
Could you please add Bukharan Ideas while you're at it? I've been waiting for them ever since Wealth of Nations when they were promised for "next expansion".

On another note, is anyone else hoping for an achievement for holding the Shogunate, the Celestial Throne and the HRE at the same time?

I also think it's wierd that Adapive has a bonus that's strictly worse than Open Doors when none of the other levels are strictly better or worse than the others. Is it because it's the "starting" position?
You can't be the Shogun and the Emperor of China at the same time, both are Unique Government types mutually exclusive of course.
Also Isolationism is strictly worst than Closed Doors as well, I think the whole idea is to either be in the Real Middle or one of the Extremes instead of compromising.
 
'Honor' would make much more sense than 'Purity', especially as no one was really considered with the 'Purity' of Shintoism until the Kokugaku movement of the 1700s, and even then it didn't actually take off until the Bakumatsu. I think a particularly good point for it would be the observation of the second Mission Superior to Japan (Cosme de Torres) that "They [the Japanese] regard honor as their principal god.".

Well, purity - or rather being impure (kegare) was at least a not-too-small thing (way) before EU4's time frame - at least for the court elites. In as far this however also meshes with buddhist teachings where purity (and impurity from killing or dealing with dead animals and so on for example) isn't exactly a non-issue either...shintô as a independent religion before Meiji doesn't make too much sense in my book.

I don't suppose the Tennō is among the new tags in Japan? He holds a bit of land around Yamato in the first start date in M+T, as I recall, but obviously I'm not sure if that would hold true in 1444. I hope so, though. It would be nice to be able to pull an early Meiji Restoration.

Not sure about M&T's start dates, but it makes not too much sense for the tennô to have any kind of directly owned land when you consider that in theory all land is his anyway (which is kinda why the emperor could not have any shôen-holdings). The imperial court per se as a collective of imperial family + court nobility (which is de facto ruled 90% of the time by the abdicated emperor since the early 11th century, see: insei) might be arguable, but you'd really need to do research on how their influence was vis a vis warriors in certain areas to justify them controlling land instead. Its very rare that an emperor did rule directly as a stand-in for the absence of an abdicated emperor that could rule (this was called shinsei) and if he had to, he instantly abdicated once he got a heir he could place on the throne. Go-Daigo in 1333 is the sole exception to the concept - he actually tried reestablish direct rule by the emperor :) Didn't work out for long.

P.S.: How do you write ō comfortably on a normal keyboard ?
 
They ran out of space, the game supports a only like 5 possible event responses so they can't add any without taking away some choices(which they did at least once)

If your ruler has the Scholar trait then you get a 6th option for Comet Sighted which gives 20 ADM.

I googled up an image:

ki8l4w2ywqrx.png
 
I like the new japanese skins.

I'll be sure to pass this on to our 3D artist. We should have renders available for viewing in due time.

Hm....I wonder....

Say for example, you're playing France and you take over Japan (and the rest of the world while we are at it), and the French Empress (that's you) becomes fascinated by Shintoism and adopts it as the religion of the Global French Empire, how does Isolationism work then? Or how does that affect the entire empire?

Can a non-Japanese empire adopt Shintoism to begin with?

Such an Empress would then have her nation interacting with the Shinto mechanics, Incidents and all, starting at Adaptive levels of isolationism.

I believe the venetian vassals also have generic ideas

Ionian and Naxian Ideas would beg to differ.

Additionally, as usual, values and such are subject to change from announcement in Dev Dairies to release. In the case of Isolationism level effects, they've been tweaked too.

Open Doors
technology_cost = -0.05
embracement_cost = -0.1​
Adaptive
global_institution_spread = 0.1
development_cost = -0.1​
Selective Integration
idea_cost = -0.1
build_cost = -0.10​
Isolationism
culture_conversion_cost = -0.15
missionaries = 1​
Closed Doors
war_exhaustion = -0.03
stability_cost_modifier = -0.15​

I'll be updating the first post accordingly.
 
Well, purity - or rather being impure (kegare) was at least a not-too-small thing (way) before EU4's time frame - at least for the court elites. In as far this however also meshes with buddhist teachings where purity (and impurity from killing or dealing with dead animals and so on for example) isn't exactly a non-issue either...shintô as a independent religion before Meiji doesn't make too much sense in my book.

That's the issue; you're thinking of Shinto as representing Meiji-era State Shinto in EU4's timeframe. Shinto in EU4 represents what it was at the time; a combination of Buddhism, Confucianism, ancestor worship and the local pantheon that made up Shinto throughout EU4's timeperiod - the ingame description of Shinto confirms this. Because whereas Buddhism does not have to represent Buddhism, Shinto has to represent Buddhism as well as its own beliefs. Thus, purity makes little sense - not to mention purity frankly sounds like it belong more as part of a Jewish mechanic.
 
Additionally, as usual, values and such are subject to change from announcement in Dev Dairies to release. In the case of Isolationism level effects, they've been tweaked too.

Open Doors
technology_cost = -0.05
embracement_cost = -0.1​
Adaptive
global_institution_spread = 0.1
development_cost = -0.1​
Selective Integration
idea_cost = -0.1
build_cost = -0.10​
Isolationism
culture_conversion_cost = -0.15
missionaries = 1​
Closed Doors
war_exhaustion = -0.03
stability_cost_modifier = -0.15​

I'll be updating the first post accordingly.

Some of those look an awful lot like some of what I've suggested :p

All joking aside, that looks better. I do think, however, that it would make more sense thematically to give spread to Open Doors and embracement cost to Adaptive. After all, open doors would help ideas spread better, whilst adaptive would help make the transition easier. So thematically it makes more sense. Also, it might be better balanced as, imho, spread is less of a factor for a development-centric kind of game where you tend to be more about playing tall than wide (with spread being a primary concern for wide players, not so much tall ones).

Also, have you guys retooled the Manchu ideas? IIRC all the Manchu/Jurchen tribes have a unified group idea set. What about Malysia and other Asian hordes?
 
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Not at this time. We chose to focus on the tags available at start for now but we would love to add more in the future :)
Hopefully which Daimyo you'll pick will be a real choice now and not just "how much development do I want to start with?".

My (or our) intention is to give players a short introduction about the origin, their home province and the achievements of each clan.
With these new NIs, players will be able to understand why some daimyos such as Hosokawa, Uesugi and Yamana are very powerful in 1444. It is a very important factor in my opinion, because many people might have difficultly to imagine pre-Onin War (or pre-Nobunaga) political situations in Japan.


Btw. I really love to make a conversion system between our CK2 Japan mod and new Japan set up in EU4! I think it isn't technically impossible.
 
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My (or our) intention is to give players a short introduction about the origin, their home province and the achievements of each clan.
With these new NIs, players will be able to understand why some daimyos such as Hosokawa, Uesugi and Yamana are very powerful in 1444. It is a very important factor in my opinion, because many people might have difficultly to imagine pre-Onin War (or pre-Nobunaga) political situations in Japan.

While I can't necessarily agree with clans like the Tsutsui getting NI sets before, say, Mori, I have to say that giving all of the clans at start their own NI sets is going above and beyond. As you helped make them as well, would you mind if I used the NI sets as basis for future ones for Iaponia?
 
While I can't necessarily agree with clans like the Tsutsui getting NI sets before, say, Mori, I have to say that giving all of the clans at start their own NI sets is going above and beyond.

The Tsutsui have an unique origin of buddhist warriors thus they could be an alternative option for the Honganji/Ikko-shu, in addition they appear in 1444 in game. From this historical and game-wise reason, they have another importance than Mori (not saying Mori isn't important, but how many players chose them in later scenarios? I am just curious).
You can get enough information about the Mori clan on English Wikipedia, but it doesn't the case for the Tsutsui. It is also a big reason and motivation on my side.

As you helped make them as well, would you mind if I used the NI sets as basis for future ones for Iaponia?

Nova Monumenta Iaponiae Historica mod is for CK2, not for EU4.
 
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The Tsutsui have an unique origin of buddhist warriors thus they could be an alternative option for the Honganji/Ikko-shu, in addition they appear in 1444 in game. From this historically and game-wise reason, they are another importance than Mori (not saying Mori isn't important, but how many players chose them in later scenarios? I am just curious).
You can get enough information about the Mori clan on English Wikipedia, but it doesn't the case for the Tsutsui. It is also a big reason and motivation on my side.

From my understanding of it, Mori are almost never chosen - this would be more of a symptom of the fact that almost no one plays later dates and that no one would really have an incentive to release and play as the Mori anyhow. Not saying the Tsutsui aren't deserving of an NI set either (and quite true, English information on the Tsutsui is beyond scarce, so all the more publically known about them the better. Though as they were a separate entity from the Honganji and functioned differently I'd say the Honganji deserve their own NI set) - just that the Mori made a larger impact on the period and thus are deserving of their own NI set.

Nova Monumenta Iaponiae Historica mod is for CK2, not for EU4.

Iaponia Universalis - what most would view as NMIH's EU4 counterpart - not NMIH. (The first version of Iaponia came out only a few months after NMIH.)
 
Iaponia Universalis - what most would view as NMIH's EU4 counterpart - not NMIH. (The first version of Iaponia came out only a few months after NMIH.)

Since I have a good memory with Sakura, the original creator of Iaponia Universalis (we have helped the development of Sengoku the game togather and made a 1551 scenario, which was included into the game itself after the release), you have of course my permission.
Although I think you can use any vanilla contents of EU4 for any EU4 mods, without any permission.
 
Since I have a good memory with Sakura, the original creator of Iaponia Universalis (we have helped the development of Sengoku the game togather and made a 1551 scenario, which was included into the game itself after the release), you have of course my permission.
Although I think you can use any vanilla contents of EU4 for any EU4 mods, without any permission.

Thank you. As you had put so much effort into coming up with NIs for the minors, it wouldn't be right to not ask permission to make variances on them.