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EU4 - Development Diary - 9th of May 2017

Hello everyone and welcome to this developed diary on setup changes in the Greater Russian region!

For the upcoming 1.22 patch we’ve had another look at modern Russia and Belarus. This is a region that has received attention previously but we feel that it was not up to the level of detail we have become accustomed to in other parts of Europe and that it could not properly reflect the lay of the land in the region in 1444.

The Russian Principalities in 1444:

In 1444 Russia was still divided into a number of principalities, in many ways this is the result of the constant interference from the Golden Horde. The Khans had defeated and divided the early Russian principalities and have come to not only exact tribute from the remaining states here, but have also acted as king-makers and guarantors of princely power.
As the game opens however the Golden Horde is going through a rough couple of decades with external pressure and internal struggles, historically ending in its general breakup into a number of much weaker successor states.
The Great Horde in our start date is what remains of the core of the Golden Horde but others, such as Crimea, would in time come to conquer and attempt to usurp their role as the overlord of the Russian states.
What this means for the Russians is that while horde intervention is still a factor in local politics, they have now been given some time to grow and thrive. As one of the main collectors of tribute for the Khans, Muscovy is now in the process of building a strong power base and has already used a combination of bribes and coercion to secure control over land of the minor princes in the region.


eu4_30.jpg


As you can see, in 1.22 we have chosen to greatly expand the number of provinces in this region. This allows for a greater degree of detail in the warfare in this region both between the principalities themselves and between the Russians and the Tatar hordes.
We have also taken the opportunity once again to adjust the development of the Russian region a bit, increasing it slightly to allow the states here to better make their mark upon the world.
In 1.22 one of the things this means is that some of the states we know and love are no longer the same. Ryazan is now a 4 province state and Yarloslavl and Tver are now 2 and 3 provinces respectively.

Muscovy:
First of the Russian principalities we have Muscovy itself. In 1444 this is already the dominant native power and in 1.22 it is the overlord of no less than five smaller principalities. The expanded number of provinces ensures that all is not lost simply from one battle or one siege, there is now room to move around when Kazan, the Great Horde or Lithuania comes knocking.
The greater detail has also allowed us to better show a number of centers of regional importance, giving it more of the historical depth that we have come to expect of other regions where we have overhauled the map.

Among the changes to the setup for Muscovy is also a revision of their ideas. Muscovite Ideas are now separate from those you get for forming Russia and currently look like this:

Muscovite Ideas:

Traditions:
Diplomatic Relations +1
Shock Damage Dealt +10%

1. Gatherers of Tribute: National Tax Income Modifier: +10%
2. Legacy of Dmitriy Donskoi: Yearly Army Tradition: +0.5
3. Seat of Metropolitan Bishop: Missionary Strength +1%, Tolerance of True Faith +1
4. Pomestnoe Voisko: Land Morale +10%
5. Strength of the Boyars: Stability Cost Modifier -20%
6. Zasechnaya Cherta: Fort Maintenance -20%
7. Descendants of the Byzantine Emperors: Diplomatic Reputation +1

Ambition:
Land Force Limit Modifier +33%

The decision to form Russia will in turn give a new set of ideas should you choose to abandon your old Principality ideas.

Russian Ideas:

Traditions:
National Manpower Modifier: +33%
Core-Creation Cost: -10%

Land of the Rus: Aggressive Expansion Impact: -10%
Siberian Frontier: Colonists: +1
Russian Artillery Yard: Artillery Cost: -10%, Artillery Combat Ability +10%
Life-Long Conscription: Land Force Limit Modifier: +50%
Abolish the Mestnichestvo: Yearly Corruption: -0.1
The Table of Ranks: Yearly Army Tradition: +0.25, Advisor Cost: -10%
Broaden the Curriculum of the Cadet Corps: +5% Land Morale, 10% less fire damage received

Ambition:
Yearly Legitimacy: +1

New Playable Countries:
In EU in general and in Russia in particular there’s always a decision to be made of what is to be a province with high autonomy and, what should be a subject state or even independent. Our game enforces strict differences depending on what you pick but in reality it was quite possible in many cases to be somewhere in between.
In the case of Russia in 1444, Muscovy is in possession much land that really belongs to a minor principality that they have somehow acquired (often by simply buying the land from the princes in control of it) or that is ruled by a prince that has moved to the court in Moscow, allowing the Muscovite's to administrate it for him. In 1.22 we have taken another look at how we want the Muscovite lands to be portrayed and added two new vassal tags:

The first is the small state of Rostov, between Tver and Yaroslavl. This principality was in many ways quite firmly under Muscovite control ever since its princes had sold off half of the lands to Moscow, but Rostov would not be integrated entirely until 1474.
Rostov has a long and interesting history and would continue to play an important part in Russian politics every now and then, even as a part of a greater Russian state. We therefore thought it would be an interesting addition to the mix of states you can play in 1444.

Rostov Ideas:

Traditions:
Provincial Trade Power Modifier: +10%
Idea Cost: -10%

Re-Unification of Rostov: Goods Produced Modifier: +10%
Ancient Heritage: Aggressive Expansion Impact: -10%
Ecclesiastical Center: Tolerance of True Faith: +2
Entrepot of Russia: Trade Efficiency: +10%
Rostov Architecture: Construction Cost: -10%
Political Influence: Diplomats: +1
Rostov Enamel: Production Efficiency: +10%

Ambition:
Diplomatic Reputation: +1

The second new state we have added is one in the north, right at the border with Novgorod. The principality of Beloozero was never a metropolis and is long past its glory days in 1444. Ruled by Muscovite princes it would formally be incorporated directly into Muscovy in 1486 and its nobles would mostly make their mark upon the world within the frames of the Russian Empire. It's position is an interesting one however and our game history might unfold differently.

Beloozero Ideas:

Traditions:
Trade Efficiency: +10%
Infantry Combat Ability: +10%

Martial Heritage: Cavalry Cost: -10%
Monastic Traditions: Yearly Prestige: +1
Strengthen Local Lineages: Yearly Legitimacy: +1
Northern Trade: Domestic Trade Power: +25%
Officers of Beloozero: Yearly Army Tradition +0.5
Boreal Warfare: Attrition for Enemies: +1
Scientific Patronage: Technology Cost: -5%

Ambition:
Goods Produced Modifier +10%

Novgorod:

eu4_28.jpg


In the far north we have broken up some of Novgorod’s bigger provinces. Novgorod's domains always presented something of a difficulty to portray in that many of these locations had little in terms of population, yet contributed to the overall wealth of the Republic.
It also gives Novgorod some much needed strategic depth when fighting Muscovy to the south.

Lithuania:

eu4_31.jpg


Lithuania has long been a region in need of greater detail. In 1.22 we have broken up and reshaped many of their provinces, especially in the northeast. When adding new provinces we have tried to accommodate important regional centers, the internal administrative divisions of the Polish-Lithuanian commonwealth as well as the gradual expansion of Muscovy and later Russia into Belarus and the Ukraine.
As this was a highly contested region for much of the period covered by the game this should should hopefully make the region a lot more interesting to play in. It should also allow for a more engaging conquest for strong neighboring states...

That was all for today!
Next week’s developer diary will be written by Johan and may or may not touch on more things that could impact the region...
 
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So what should Russian ideas have?
The colonist is a must and imo some for of production to make use of all of the pelt provinces.
Militarily? What about artillery combat strength or fire damage, some generic disciple or morale to keep up with the others and maybe better leaders?
 
Second patch in ce/ee where everybody around Poland got something and Poland gets nothing again . reallly paradox?

What are you talking about? Russia got a gigantic nerf to their ideas incoming and more vassals to support independence on to roach 'em, and the Ottomans have lower CCR to invade Romania with. Poland's this close from returning to their old Commonblob status in which they can wreck virtually all of the east 80%+ of the games. Never forget 1.17.
 
This has buggered me a lot. Why would you name the province of Vilnius Vilna, when controlled by the Lithuanians, who have Lithuanian as their main culture? I mean, sure, just for the sake of it, but at least change it when playing with dynamic province names. Makes no sense whatsoever. Especially since I remember when it used to be called Vilnius (with dynamic province names) and now you removed it and left the Polish version for some reason...
 
Now funny part - idea set:

Tradition: 25% manpower, -15% core creation cost.

Sudebnik: +10% tax, -1 unrest

Streltsy/Russian Artillery Yard: +10% land fire damage

Oprichnina: 0.05 autonomy reduction.

Siberian frontier: +1 colonist, adjacent provinces of colony are revealed.

Abolish the mestnichestvo: +5% production, -0.05 corruption.

Table of Ranks: +0.5 YAT, -15% advisor cost.


Russian absolutism: +20% institution spread.

Ambition: +10% morale
Tradition: 25% manpower, -15% core creation cost.

Pomestnoe Voisko: 30% focelimit modifier.

Streltsy/Russian Artillery Yard: +10% fire damage.

Sudebnik: 0.05 autonomy reduction.

Siberian frontier: +1 colonist, adjacent provinces of colony are revealed.

Abolish the mestnichestvo: +5% production, -0.05 corruption.

Table of Ranks: +0.5 YAT, -10% advisor cost.

Development of land: -10% development cost.

Ambition: +1 land leader fire.
Tradition: 25% manpower, -15% core creation cost.

Pomestnoe voisko: +30% forcelimit modifier.

Russian artillery yards: -10/15/20% artillery cost.

Streltsy: +10% land fire damage.

Siberian Frontier: +1 colonist, adjacent provinces of colony are revealed.

Abolishment of Mestnichestvo: 10% morale.

Table of Ranks: 0.5 YAT, -10% advisor cost.

Development of land: -10% development cost

Ambition: +1 land leader fire.

This was my suggestions (which can be OP).
 
i actually think this might be a "buff" for the PLC, one of the problems for the PLC is that Russia/Muscovy was almost impossible to break up.

At most you could force them to release a few opms they would gobble back up.

The Khanates were a joke and so is novgrod but hopeful a PLC that is interested in Russia can actually support other principalities which will challenge Muscovite domination.
 
I would love, if the 1.22 Russia patch would to give the Baltic region some well needed love and flavor (and border/culture tag adjustments) as suggested above here https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/new-changes-in-baltic-sea.1003803/ :)

- I'd really like to see an Estonian Dorpat, maybe even Lievland (or splitting the region to better represent the Livonian/Estonian and the Latvian Part - maybe a Pärnu/Pernau province?)
- National Ideas for the Livonian Order would be nice, not those generic ones.
- Ideas for Estonian NIs by @BlackPrince here https://forum.paradoxplaza.com/forum/index.php?threads/estonia-nis.924393/#post-21077231
- I'm sure there are many more great ideas out there!

Looking forward to the new patch and to more historic flavor in the northern regions! Tack! ;)
 
They changed ahistorical ideas to nerfed ideas. This is with what some of us have problem :)

Maybe with the changes to Orthodox mechanics, it's not really a nerf. Maybe it's balanced because Orthodoxy gives a lot of manpower. I'm just speculating, but we'll just have to wait and see. On first glance, I don't agree with any of these idea changes either.

Also, there's that event that changes dynasties, and when that happens, the Byzantine descendants modifier stops making any sense.
 
If u are already focused on eastern europe(it's great!) I think byzantium should get permanent claims on all other regions they owned(purple phoenix isn't enough now when it is added),
And...
Albania should be guaranteed by Aragon atleast until 1451 (and then have a choice to become Vassal/Marches or something like tributary... Skanderbeg was vassal of Alfons V in 1451) and get more Aragonese/Papal support events.
Serbia and Bosnia should get event with union cb(Stephen Tomasevic of Bosnia) .
And by the way, i think if we have elite manchu cavalry same should happen with Poland

(instead of cavalry combat ability and/or other military ideas, for example "piechota wybraniecka" was commonwealth fail, it helped a lot with siege of russian fortresses[but why combat ability?], but it was only replenishment of deficiencies, not anything worth military bonus and it was sabotaged by nobles who wanted peasants to work in farmlands and let cavalry noblemans defend country without much infantry other than cossacks, but this system worked for Sweden later on)
at cost of less forcelimit/more expensive cavalry and forts
(commonwealth nobles despised it, they always prefered field battles)
etc.(and cossack should get more flavour like registered cossacks and strong rebels when their provinces are converted or army mainetance is lowered or something like that),

okay maybe it's too much flavour but it can impact conquer like it is doing with Prussia, so it's always good to think about that.

And maybe something for Livonian order ? One more province? Conflicts between Russia Sweden and Poland event?

and other things that are imo not accurate.
English monarchy should lose less maximum absolutism(and stronger late game global superpower ideas but worse start imo, England wasn't superpower in XV century, but it was the greatest later on) and parliament disaster/rebels possible (for example Stuarts 1601-1649 ruled with a minimum impact of parliament, and before that Elizabeth tried to make england absolute monarchy and there is more of it, so it seems not fair to have same amount as elective monarchy or republics)
Austria should get more diplomacy from ruler(like with prussian monarchy)
Ages should get more countries flavour (and it seems stupid to have nothing of bonus in age of Revolution as France), or like it is in Hungary (event bonus only for age, it's even better).

Other institusions should appear in more places, for example colonialism should appear in Perm/Russia just the same as Renesaince is doing in flander region(maybe not that quick)
My dream is to get changed battles but yea... maybe someday....

I hope there is atleast one good idea u could use.
 
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It's pretty easy to get institutions via Genoa.

In a world where the Crimea submits to Ottomans event doesn't happen maybe...

Actually, the last few games I played Genoa got nixed from the area without Ottoman interference but in any case it's only available if you bum rush south and save them. Of course that leaves you with other problems...
 
City of Kolomna should be on confluence of Moskva and Oka rivers.
Zubtsov is near Rzhev - too close even (just 15km), so Staritsa would make more sence (but i repeat myself).
Vladimir and Suzdal should be moved to the north.
Add Pereyaslavl-Zalesky as one of the most populated regions in Russia in 15th century.
Nizhny Nobgorod should be on confluence of Oka and Volga between them.
Murom should be on Oka, left bank.
Starodub was on Klyazma river, not on Oka (it is 100 km from Oka).
Kasimov is on wrong bank of Oka.
Kashin is on wrong bank os river.

@Trin Tragula , it is what i found also. I will add more later in my thread...
 
Perhaps now muscovy will finally stop sucking (so much) in MP due to 0 quality in it's ideas.

And no one will take Russian ideas ;)




Maybe with the changes to Orthodox mechanics, it's not really a nerf. Maybe it's balanced because Orthodoxy gives a lot of manpower. I'm just speculating, but we'll just have to wait and see. On first glance, I don't agree with any of these idea changes either.

Also, there's that event that changes dynasties, and when that happens, the Byzantine descendants modifier stops making any sense.

Nope, it is not. The ideas are so bad that you even can't do anything with them.
-10% agressive expansion to isolated nation? Good idea. Top.
-10% artillery cost? Non-existing in timeline Smolensk has -20%. Good...
Lifelong conscription appeared in 18th century. AFTER mestnichestvo.
Again, those cadet corps...
And top finisher in whole game :)
 
This is very sad - russian ideas is totally worse than muscovite.
Well, the new Russian ideas are really subpar. Muscovy got a really nice boost but overall it really doesn't fix the problem much when compared to it's neighbours that all have OP military ideas (swe, poland and ottos with their janissaries, discipline and sunni morale)

Still better than before where Russia would simply get roflstomped lategame.
 
Pretty much everyone on this thread has been vocal about Russian ideas being sucky... And I'm sure there is still quite a bit of time before the patch is released. I think it is highly probable that PDX will change them again.