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CK2 Dev Diary #50: A Reason for War

Greetings!

The weather is slowly recovering from the chaotic mixture of snow/rain/hail/sun that has plagued the Swedish April and work is starting on the next, yet undisclosed, expansion! The next expansion is going to have a specific theme which most features will be focused around (we can unfortunately not go into any detail in this DD), though we also want to add some features that can be of use regardless of who or where you choose to play. One of these is planned to be a ‘Casus Belli Expansion’, where we want to add new and oft-requested CBs to the game. The Focus is going to be on CBs that enhance the early and late game (as well as a few more roleplay-focused CBs). While this is by no means a final list, it’s what we’ve made so far:


Forced Vassalization
This is a CB that can be used against neighboring realms to force them to become your vassal. To avoid making it too powerful it’s quite heavily limited, only realms that are of a lower tier, under 30 realm size and where the ruler is of either your culture group or religion are valid targets. It also has a direct cost (prestige). For example; this can allow England to, with time, extend ‘protection’ to the smaller Welsh and Irish realms.


De Jure Duchy Claim
This CB was added to try to avoid situations where massive realms would fight over one single county, essentially destroying their armies for near no gain. Players often think these types of wars aren’t worth fighting, and do not usually declare them themselves - instead they turn to Holy Wars or invite duchy claimants to expand in a more meaningful way. This CB provides interesting opportunity for conquest at the point where you form your first Kingdom or Empire. Any vassals present in conquered lands are preserved, and this CB also comes with a prestige cost.


Ducal County Conquest
At the very start of a game you might be stuck waiting for fabricated claims a very, very long time if you’re unlucky. This CB is available to Count and Duke tier characters, and allows you to go to war over any County that are part of a Duchy you hold land in, as long as the Duchy has no holder. The CB has a cost of prestige and gold, making it similar to a fabricated claim (as that’s essentially what it is). As an example, this gives count-tier characters in Ireland and the HRE an alternate way to claim a Duke-tier title, presuming that you can save up enough prestige and money.


Great Conquest
Unless you are playing as a Muslim, Nomad or Tribal-cultured ruler (who have access to invasions) you have no real way to expand in a meaningful way when you are playing as the ruler of a very large realm. While we still want expansion to be difficult, we also want to give players more static opportunities to expand. This CB is available to very powerful realms (at least 200 realm size) and can be used to claim an entire Kingdom from another character. Though the catch is that you have to fight someone that is as strong or stronger than you are, and using the CB itself costs a massive amount of prestige and piety.


Free Hostages
A long-requested CB, this allows you to go to war against a character in order to free any kidnapped concubines or wives, and release certain characters from prison (i.e. friends and dynastants). Rescued characters will, most often, be moved back to your court. It will also take hostages in turn, imprisoning a random close member of the target’s family!

It’s currently not possible to attack anyone who holds a close dynastic member in their prison (i.e. your child), is this something you’d like to see changed specifically for use with this CB? Otherwise it'll be of use primarily for freeing concubines (something that has been requested for a long time!).


Note that these CBs are by no means finished, and are currently being tested internally. Feel free to comment and feedback on them though, and also feel free to tell us what CBs you would like to see added!
 
I agree with this, but then you need (allot) more stuff to do within your own kingdom. The game shouldn't be like; max speed unitl next war, speed 1 (win war and gone is your manpower), back too max speed again until your manpower is back.

Don't you think there should be consequences for your actions? War is risky, if you deplete your resources in you should be concerned.

Losing a war while standing should be preferable than winning by crippling yourself.
 
Putting the pieces back together after a war is the most fun part.

Beyond that you don't want to go sending the message that you'll roll over as soon as a conflict becomes inconvenient, that's when your enemies start applying the pressure to get their demands.
 
Basically you say that the chance system is bad because it can let you wait for years and that's not fun, so you give something that let you do it anyway. That is a criticism that a lot of people made though since the release of the game, and that's why pagans and other religion are so popular when people want to do a conquest run.

I have this feeling with a lot of things in the game, like culture and religion conversion that can happen after 300 years or just 2 months after you sent your chaplain. That's not really fun either. I think the base chance system is not really a fun one at base for these things, I think we as player should have more imput on this.
IMO the EU siege system is the best solution: It combines randomness, sense of progress, and speed-bumping. By adjusting the ticks and the progress bar, the same system can make the fabrication and conversion processes less arbitrary and allows the players to see progress.
 
Please, Paradox, use this as an opportunity to fix the marriage system.

It's nice that you provide the player with more options to expand his realm... but you should remember one of the main features that already is in the game. A feature that is one of the centrepieces of a game about dynasties, personal relationships, inheritance and personal claims to land and title.

A feature that you chose - for whatever reason - to dumb down to uselessness.

Give us some more diplomatic options to barter for spouses!
Get rid of this auto-rejection of marriages due to "political concerns" or "better alliances"!
It makes no sense anymore, especially when you offer us all kind of other ways of relieving a noble of his lands.

Bella gerant alii. Tu, felix Austria, nube!
 
It’s currently not possible to attack anyone who holds a close dynastic member in their prison (i.e. your child), is this something you’d like to see changed specifically for use with this CB? Otherwise it'll be of use primarily for freeing concubines (something that has been requested for a long time!).

I think this is a great idea. Add in the risk of having that hostage killed.

You already have something similar with Merchant Republics. If you're feuding with another great house, you can get a random event to steal the contents of a ship smuggling goods into the city that belong to the rival family (If you have a feud going) with a random chance that the member of your dynasty will be caught. You have the option to pay 200 gold, or he'll be executed.

Having a similar mechanic as a CB would be awesome
 
Can we have a Press all De jure Claims? instead of going to war 5 times for 5 different duchy we can just have 1 big war.

What, so people can rush to an Empire title and blob even faster? Every character will be able to get a WC done before the millennium turns, starting in 769.
 
What, so people can rush to an Empire title and blob even faster? Every character will be able to get a WC done before the millennium turns, starting in 769.
Im sorry, but are yu complaining that people could be able to do what they want in their own game in a pace that seems better for them, in their own game? really, thats your complain?
 
Im sorry, but are yu complaining that people could be able to do what they want in their own game in a pace that seems better for them, in their own game? really, thats your complain?
In his defence: if blobbing becomes too easy, then as a player you have to start making non-optimal decisions on purpose only so there's a fight left at the end.
 
In his defence: if blobbing becomes too easy, then as a player you have to start making non-optimal decisions on purpose only so there's a fight left at the end.
so, if in my game experience I wanna conquer the world as fast as I can, and the game give me more tools to do it, its detrimental to me? thats your defense?
all complains Im hearing here are people complaing that other people may have fun in a different way than them.

you can still embrace a heresy and conquer huge chunks of lands, then get another heresy and conquer the rest, the complains about fast pace are senseless, you can always chose not to use them if you dont like them. and in a game thats mostly single player, what other players do in their game shouldnt bother you AT ALL
 
so, if in my game experience I wanna conquer the world as fast as I can, and the game give me more tools to do it, its detrimental to me? thats your defense?
all complains Im hearing here are people complaing that other people may have fun in a different way than them.

you can still embrace a heresy and conquer huge chunks of lands, then get another heresy and conquer the rest, the complains about fast pace are senseless, you can always chose not to use them if you dont like them. and in a game thats mostly single player, what other players do in their game shouldnt bother you AT ALL

It's bothersome to me, and others who don't like to map paint, because when the devs make the game easier for rapid expanders and map painters, it does multiple things: One, take away the focus from the aspects I, and others like me, enjoy and puts that focus on aspects that I do not. Two, it tends to make the devs balance around this new paradigm of rapid expansion and usage of new CBs. Take a look at all of the changes in EU4 over the years to slow down or prevent people from managing a rapid WC. Three, if you want an easy conquest there are already ways to do it in game. You can either mod in extra CBs or you can play a religion that is more expansionist focused.

Nothing's stopping you from enjoying blobbing already. Stop with the faux outrage over other people "taking away your options".
 
It's bothersome to me, and others who don't like to map paint, because when the devs make the game easier for rapid expanders and map painters, it does multiple things: One, take away the focus from the aspects I, and others like me, enjoy and puts that focus on aspects that I do not. Two, it tends to make the devs balance around this new paradigm of rapid expansion and usage of new CBs. Take a look at all of the changes in EU4 over the years to slow down or prevent people from managing a rapid WC. Three, if you want an easy conquest there are already ways to do it in game. You can either mod in extra CBs or you can play a religion that is more expansionist focused.

Nothing's stopping you from enjoying blobbing already. Stop with the faux outrage over other people "taking away your options".

Oh, Im sorry, you dont like ¨map painters¨ and well, I supose you dont want them to have as much fun as they could. and You want the devs to focus on what you want. and you are complaing cause of that. I get it, well; I supose that if something its more developed it might be cause more customers want that.
Im pretty sure there are enough tools to do what you like to do in the game, and you could mod the rest. If what you like from the game its not what the majority of the players like, tought luck. But complaing of what other people do in a single player game, its well... childish.
 
Oh, Im sorry, you dont like ¨map painters¨ and well, I supose you dont want them to have as much fun as they could. and You want the devs to focus on what you want. and you are complaing cause of that. I get it, well; I supose that if something its more developed it might be cause more customers want that.
Im pretty sure there are enough tools to do what you like to do in the game, and you could mod the rest. If what you like from the game its not what the majority of the players like, tought luck. But complaing of what other people do in a single player game, its well... childish.

That's not what I said at all actually, so have fun with your martyrdom.
 
"It’s currently not possible to attack anyone who holds a close dynastic member in their prison (i.e. your child), is this something you’d like to see changed specifically for use with this CB? "

Hell yes. The Lannisters have my sisters and I want them back, I will wage war to get them back!
 
Great ideas. Perhaps you could also include an option to go to war against somebody who murdered a close family member...

With the "Free Hostages" CB, especially if you add the possibility of close family members, perhaps there could also be a couple of related event chains such as attempted rescue missions.
 
This is another idea we're toying with, like the previously mentioned force conversion CB that Wuddel mentioned it's something that can't be used lightly though. It would have to require extremely specific circumstances, or only be presented through a scripted opportunity of some sort. Have you got any ideas on when such a CB would feel fair to use?
I would suggest that if it is discovered that a ruler is a bastard and not the child of the previous title holder (where succession was not decided by election) that there would be cause to say the title died with the last holder. I'd also suggest that when a ruler is discovered to be a bastard that claims get an upgrade. From weak to strong, uninheritable strong to inheritable strong, due to the ruler being illegitimate.
I've seen intrigue messages about discovering someone is a bastard with options to expose them, but I dont recall it doing much but I would have assumed it would have been big trouble for them.
 
Please don't turn prestige into mana, it makes more sense with piety and sometimes gold.

I would like to see defensive pacts slightly buffed, and the AI should be more thoughtful when picking its alliances. Maybe I'm just lucky, but in many of my singleplayer-games, the AI often fails to enter meaningful alliances and are easily snacked up by larger nations.
 
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