This is interesting so far. Perhaps China will begin to see the rest of Asia as pawns of the barbarians and begin expanding their empire outwards to their vassals (and former vassals)?
-
We have updated our Community Code of Conduct. Please read through the new rules for the forum that are an integral part of Paradox Interactive’s User Agreement.
Indeed, annoyingly so.
Yes, it seems to be the case.
Thank you. And yes, the Manchus I imagine will start considering expanding their borders in response to this aggression and to regain prestige after having lost territory to the Russians.
Yes, I think at least for now the Russians are the enemies to be worried about, until the British really do pull ahead, take up all of India and develop machine guns as well. Until then, the raw numbers of Russia (Japan too maybe?) will be the sticking point for china. British also has the classic attrition problem of going through the Tibetan mountains and then a desert to get to you, so ironically you can use Punjab's strategy of letting the attrition kill them.
Yes, indeed, although Russia no longer has any territories it has CBs for, with Sofianova and parts of Manchuria taken.
The Third Anglo-Chinese War (1855—1856)
The Chinese army once again began its long march south towards Tibet and to the west towards Kashgar (the Emperor was glad for having made the decision to construct forts in that area). The first clash occurred in August 1855 in Lhodrak —an area that was the natural line of defense from any invaders coming from the south—in which Tibetan and Chinese troops succeeded in holding the line against the barbarian hordes. A combined army of 73,725 men had prevailed over the attacking 28,344-strong British force, inflicting far heavier casualties than they had lost and gaining some prestige for China in the eyes of other barbarians. But the Manchu Court and the Board of War in Peking acknowledged that this time the British attacked in greater numbers and mobilized far more quickly than in the previous two conflicts. This was concerning as it seemed the British might have learned from past mistakes and were making a more concerted effort to attack.
At the same time a Chinese army engaged some 50,000 British soldiers further to the north at Changtang (the province of Ngari further south had already come under occupation by a sizable enemy force). As the fighting became more and more intense the barbarians gained the upper hand, forcing the Chinese to throw more troops into the meat grinder. Meanwhile, as Kashgar was being occupied by the British, another 24,000 barbarian troops marched north and attacked the Aksu garrison in October. On November 20 the government received word that General Guan Xiangying prevailed at Changtang after four months of savage combat, giving a crushing defeat to the barbarians which resulted in the loss of almost their entire force. However the defenders also took heavy losses and many of the troops were not capable of continuing to fight because of exhaustion.
In early December the Battle of Aksu was over with a Chinese victory, despite initial General Wallace Seaton's initial successes against the numerically smaller garrison, which was backed up by reinforcements. This was a much smaller success numerically but demonstrated that the Chinese army was still capable of dealing with the invaders.
The new year was greeted with news that Chinese troops under General Sonin Tiemei went on the offensive against the invaders in Kashgar after their victory in Aksu, while the barbarians again sent a force against Changtang in an attempt to break through the still recovering defenders. Lhodrak also came under attack once again in February, with the troops there having not seen action for some time and being able to prepare their defenses.
Despite the arrival of British reinforcements, the tiredness of the soldiers and their reduced numbers, General Guan and his army were able to hold the line at Changtang, giving the enemy over 20,000 casualties. However the Chinese army was suffering from exhaustion and lack of supplies, difficult to deliver in the mountains. It was doubtful that they could continue to hold out, and the Board of War began deploying fresh armies from China proper into Tibet.
This followed up by news of General Fu Shangzhi’s triumph at Lhodrak over the attackers under General Archibald Allenby, keeping the southern flank secure from the attempted British offensives.
In March it was decided to launch an offensive against the British headquarters in occupied Ngari from Changtang and Shigatse. Chinese troops clashed with the British garrison there and despite running low on supplies they managed to make the Qing Emperor's light shine gloriously, while also disrupting barbarian operations in the area. They subsequently began to drive out the last semblances of the several month-long British occupation of the region.
A lull in the fighting occurred until late May and early June, until the British attempted a counteroffensive at Ngari and Lhodrak. Also in late June the government in Peking was informed that the island of Formosa off the southern coast had fallen and the garrison had been defeated in a last stand, but it was of minor consequence in the long run. Formosa was natural target as a relatively isolated island and judging by the fact that the Chinese navy was insignificant, certainly no match for the Royal Navy, which operated off the Chinese coast unimpeded. However it was trivial compared to the British reverses on the Tibetan front.
Another British attempt to take Kashgar began, by barbarian units that were too exhausted to put up an effective fight against the fresh defenders. The Emperor, upon hearing about it, found it odd that the supposedly powerful British Empire would be throwing under-supplied and weakened troops against the strong natural defenses and brutal climate of the Chinese positions in Tibet. It seems that Britain's pool of manpower was running out. Not surprisingly, General Sonin’s army was able to defeat them.
Shortly after the failure of this attempt, on July 29, 1856, a peace offer from the barbarians was accepted by the Emperor.
So you held them off again ... but it feels like it was harder this time. Not sure if that is an accurate impression.
They will learn eventually, and this war wasn't kind to the Chinese army either. Fortunately, defensive lines work in this era so perhaps build one.
A Great Wall, you might say...
That's something you should correct, even for a conservative Chinese government. One cannot protect trade without a strong fleet and the Japanese and the Brits, as well as every other power in the world, are building strong ones fast. China has a long and proud naval tradition however, they just need to revive it in the face of isolationism.
It was a bit harder, yes, although not too overwhelming. It does seem the British put more effort into it this time.
They definitely are working to correct the issue right now, as they are in the process of researching naval techs, but to keep it from getting too far ahead of its time they will probably avoid developing modern steamers until 1870.
China is keeping an edge over the British but it does seem the gap is in danger of closing.
Determination and Ambition (1856—1858)
The summer of 1856 had seen the third victory over the British, thought at a much higher cost. With that threat again out of the way, the Chinese government returned to its previous tasks: adopting some of the barbarian technology while preserving China’s Confucian culture and tradition. Although the Conservatives certainly were not satisfied with these developments, the Emperor saw the need for it and continued to push some of these minor reforms. He told them it was necessary for the middle kingdom to remain as the center of Asia and the world.
As an example of some successful reform, the Emperor recently heard from his diplomats that the faraway land known as the Ottoman Empire—which according to his agents was often compared by the Europeans to China—carried out a major internal reform within its country. The Manchu Court would never permit something that drastic, but the Son of Heaven viewed it as a sign of the changing times.
Meanwhile, the British had managed to build up significant influence in Peking but had temporarily lost it following their betrayal last year. Now there was an opening for the other wide-eyed barbarians to increase their own influence in an attempt to win favor of the Qing. However, by October the British had shown surprising tenacity at their lobbying, and as a result they dominated that diplomatic scene at the Legation Quarters in Peking. Soon the others came to view China, the Emperor was told, as being part of the British sphere of influence.
As far as he understood it, this meant that China was more or less viewed as subservient to the United Kingdom. The Emperor couldn’t stand for this, but due to their peace agreement he could not yet expel them from the Forbidden City and cause another war. This fact enraged the Conservatives but the Emperor was able to calm them down and convince them to bide their time.
In the meantime, as the reforms were progressing in China, the Emperor ordered his advisors to prepare him a report on the state of the world, believing it to be necessary for himself and other members of the government to learn—similarly to how monarchs of a new dynasty in China traditionally commissioned an official history to be written of the previous one. But this time it would be about the state of the barbarian world, and his barbarian affairs ministry went to work on it right away.
In Europe, where the strongest rivals of China were located, Great Britain and France were the strongest, followed by the newly unified North German Federation, while Austria, Bavaria, and the Russian Empire lagged a bit behind them. What intrigued the Emperor were the non-European nations who were considered by his diplomats to be among the world’s great powers: Chile and the United States. While both were still seen largely as a backwater and ignored, the US was said growing in power. Chile still remained largely an unknown, having only been considered so important due to its high level of industrialization.
In terms of territory, the Netherlands had failed to subdue Belgium and eventually signed a treaty recognizing its independence. France managed to conquer the region of Catalonia from Spain, while the North German Federation had acquired the territory of Moravia during the Austro-Prussian War prior to its unification. Sardinia-Piedmont had taken a slice of Switzerland while Denmark had lost the majority of its homeland to the Germans, being reduced to a few small islands off the northern coast of the Federation. Even the Danish colonies near North America have all been ceded to the Germans.
In Africa and the Middle East, the Ottomans had taken the last piece of Anatolia that had been controlled by their “vassal” of Egypt, though the Egyptians continued to control half of the Levant, as well as restored Ottoman order to the formerly independent Tripoli (in a second attempt). Algeria had lost its northern mountains to France, but oddly enough the French had chosen to add the tribes to their sphere rather than completely conquer them, and even defended them from a Spanish invasion. On the other hand, most of neighboring Morocco had fallen to Spain and only a small pocket of territory around their capital remained under the Moroccan Sultan’s control.
In North America, the US was still a fledgling nation stuck between Mexico and the British territories in Canada, but showing its intent to expand. South America was not deemed important enough by the Qing diplomats to warrant a report on its situation, and their contacts with those governments remained extremely limited. The situation in Asia was already well known in Peking and thus an extensive report was unwarranted, but a brief overview of past events as well as the state of some of the tributaries was given, along with the information that the Europeans were conquering parts of the Southeast Asia.
Thus was the state of the world when the report was presented to the Son of Heaven in January 1857.
Meanwhile, despite the major victory over the British for a third time, the public was still dissatisfied with the situation in China and the Emperor’s secret police reported that several regions were in danger of outright rebellion. To add on to the difficulties, the Manchu Court, intoxicated by the victory, was pressing for China to flex its muscles and show that it was still in charge of Asia. Namely, by fully integrating the Tibetan provinces and the border savages of Kokand into the middle kingdom. Although the Emperor was reluctant, he saw the need to secure the border with the barbarians to the south as now that China was under British influence it might no longer be able to defend Tibet should the barbarians attempt to invade it again.
On the 28th of April, the first clipper transport ship was completed in the port of Canton, which became the headquarters of the new Guangdong Fleet as more ships reached completion.
On June 18 the court in Peking received word of an attack against a warehouse in one of the provinces by agitated workers. The incident was put down and the perpetrators were punished, but it demanded a response from the central government. The Emperor decreed it to be an unprovoked attack. A new fort was commissioned to be built in Tianjin.
Days later the Ottoman Empire had officially surpassed Chile as a great power.
On 6 August 1857 the first frigate of the Chinese fleet, Ton Chi, was completed and entered the Guangdong Fleet. This ship was joined by the Ying Ching on August 26 and the Nan Shin on September 10.
Later on 3 October 1857, the Emperor was amused to find out from his foreign minister that France had declared war on Spain again—dragging Austria, Britain, and the Netherlands into the war. He enjoyed seeing the barbarians fighting among each other.
On the 23rd of that month Japan and the Qing signed an agreement opening Japanese waters to Chinese naval warships.
In early December a scandal regarding discriminatory school practices against the Tibetan majority in Yazhou caused the Emperor to turn his attention to Tibet. He chose to speed up the preparations for war and approved the plan proposed by the Board of War Operations for an invasion.
Yep, Tibet needs to be incorporated for its own protection. And man, Europe is a mess.
I also seem to recall that being in a sphere means cheaper technology, so there's that at least.
I also seem to recall that being in a sphere means cheaper technology, so there's that at least.
The Manchus strongly agree.
Yes, indeed.
Indeed, but they seem to at least be preoccupied for now.
Yellow Dragon Triumphant (1858—1860)
On 20 January 1859, the Emperor was delighted to find out that most of barbarian Europe had been dragged into an even bigger war when the Russian Empire declared war on the Britain over some remote colony in America. That would mean Britain would be less likely to interfere with China’s invasion of Tibet. The Chinese armies had mostly recovered from the British war and were replenished with troops and supplies, allowing some of them to take part in this operation. Meanwhile, the Conservatives were all for it, glad that their recommendation was heeded, while the Imperial Faction was more cautious and the Reformers were definitely against an unprovoked attack against a loyal vassal that Chinese blood had been spilled to defend from the barbarians.
The Emperor reluctantly decided to grant military access to Russia, in order to allow them to weaken the British a bit (following the traditional Chinese method of pitting barbarians against barbarians).
Moving ahead with the plan, China dissolved its military alliance with Tibet on January 31. This brought confusion to at the court of Lhasa, whose diplomats in Peking sought to clarify the situation, but to no avail. The Chinese government had made up its mind. War was declared on February 19.
Chinese troops once again began marching to Tibet, this time as conquerors rather than allies. The first combat broke out on March 8 as Chinese forces under General Guan Xiangying entered the northern province of Chamdo. The Chinese, 21,000 strong, were outnumbered by General Tsarong Chöphel’s 24,000-strong Army of Tibet. Soon they were facing heavy losses and additional troops had to be called in. But they did not arrive in time.
On the 20th, word came that General Guan’s troops had been defeated. This came as a shock to the Manchu Court, although the Emperor recalled the ferocity and determination of the Tibetans in battle against the technologically superior British barbarians. Later that month two Chinese armies had entered Lhodrak and Tawang in the south. On another note, the court granted military access to the barbarian nation of Spain, an ally of the UK.
The next battle began on May 4, with the precaution of sending a larger army having been taken. Even though the 20,000 Tibetan soldiers were outnumbered by some 50,000 Chinese, they still put up an intense resistance and initially were making gains against the troops of the Qing Emperor. However, the numbers ultimately prevailed and despite losing nearly 10,000 troops as opposed to the loss of 5,000 Tibets, General Guan was able to sent them retreating on June 3, after a month of savage combat in the mountains.
Wanting to press the advantage, in late June some 33,000 of the Chinese troops most capable of fighting departed Chamdo under General Fu Linge, leaving some 23,000 men under General Guan behind the carry on the mopping up operations in that province. Meanwhile, General Fu’s army advanced towards the Tibetan capital. They reached the city and began the siege on July 4. The exhausted Tibetans had used up most of their strength at Chamdo and did not have enough time to recover, quickly forced to retreat on July 16.
On August 8, Peking received word that the Kingdom of Bhutan, which bordered the regions that were being fought over in Tibet, had succumbed to an internal revolution. Reportedly, some reactionaries were able to enforce their demands, thus ending China’s alliance with them. The Emperor did not mind too much and wanted to wait until the Tibetan question was settled before responding.
By the end of August, Lhodrak and Tawang had successfully been occupied while a force under General Nalan Linge advanced on Shigatse. Around that time another army had entered Changtang. On September 6, the Manchu Court declined a Tibetan envoy’s request for a peace agreement. On the 29th General Nalan’s forces entered Shigatse without any resistance as the battered remnants of the Tibetan army fled across the border in Nepalese territory to escape.
However, Chinese troops under General Mingzhu Kang’an caught up to them on November 26 in Ngari. The Tibetans managed to put up a ferocious fight once again, managing to undo the initial Chinese numerical superiority. But ultimately it was not enough, and on the day of the new year the Emperor was informed that the last Tibetan troops were scattered in defeat.
On February 22 a lone Tibetan brigade attempted a futile uprising in Ngari only to quickly be put down. An attempt to recover Changtang was defeated also, although the majority of the Tibetan remnants were able to preserve themselves and continue to retreat.
But the court in Lhasa had finally accepted a peace offer after the fall of Ngari on April 2, ending the war and annexing Tibet into the Middle Kingdom.
Despite the success and the celebrations in Peking, the Emperor was disappointed in the performance of his imperial army. It was clear that more reform and technology was needed, given how well the much smaller Army of Tibet had fought against the vast Chinese forces. Many Chinese brigades of 3000 men had been reduced to less than 100 able-bodied soldiers. The supply system and medical services were inadequate as well, since attrition in the cold Tibetan mountains had also taken tens of thousands of lives. It was a worrying sign.
But still, it was good to have secured the Tibetan border with British India and other barbarian states to the south. On the other hand, China gained infamy in the eyes of the barbarians throughout the world for attacking Tibet. A series of forts was being built there. In addition, several new ships were laid down for a future Fujian Fleet, while naval bases were being built in Shanghai, Canton, Hong Kong, Ningbo, Weihaiwei, Port Arthur, Tianjin, Jinzhou, and Qingdao.
In November China gained some prestige and was able to increase trade with the Ottomans, who seemed to be interested in cotton. This was a welcome development, as the Qing Emperor believed that a country with an ancient history similarly to China such as the Ottoman Empire ought to have good relations with the Middle Kingdom.
In late December, most of the new ships for the Fujian Fleet had been completed. But in January 1860 some drastic changes were forcibly made in the Chinese government.
One can bear the news of these foreign wars with great fortitude. So what if the barbarians play amongst themselves, for Tibet is now safe.
Ah, so the empire grows for the first time in a long while. Now to get your old lands back and reclaim the title of the centre of the universe from those bloody Brits!