I have no answer for 16th.Luft in 1v1

[LegioX]

Anybody have any tips b/c I'm out of options.

Their x4 109 bombs really hurts any phase A arty counter to their 88's. All their inf have AT capabilities so i can't rush certain areas like i can against 17SS.

You literally have a window of maybe 5-10min to get an upper hand, b/c if they start setting up 88's with A2G planes, you are screwed.

 

[Gilmund]

Maps, decks you using, replays...

4 109 bombers in phase A ? This is four times 190 points, more than seven phase A ticks of 100 points only to get planes. And you bitching there is some infantry on the field plus arty plus 88's ? Really ?

 

[Alex646]

4 109 bombers in phase A ? This is four times 190 points, more than seven phase A ticks of 100 points only to get planes.

You can spend some pts from starting 500.

 

[LegioX]

Maps, decks you using, replays...

4 109 bombers in phase A ? This is four times 190 points, more than seven phase A ticks of 100 points only to get planes. And you bitching there is some infantry on the field plus arty plus 88's ? Really ?

Where am I bitching in my post? I asked a ligetimate question and you do a 180 and have a attitude about it.

 

[Nordhammer]

And yet another "that darn pesky 16th Feld",did you not already start this topic in another thread?

Post replays if you would please,perhaps folks could point out specifics,instead of the standard smoke/position fire/art advice...
Gilmund points out 4x Bf 109s in phase A equals a 760 investment in points,would indicate the 16th Feld player had an serious lack of ground units or you really dropped the ball.

 

[facmanpob]

In your example you want to counter a couple of flak 88s and 4 Me109 bombers (total cost 1020 points out of 1500 phase A points).

Which deck are you using? For example, with Guards Armoured you could bring in 2 x 25 pdr to pin the 88s, protected by a Tempest and 2 x Crusader AA Mk 2, all for 540 points (out of 1300 phase A total points).

 

[Nordhammer]

You can spend some pts from starting 500.

And have what for ground units?

 

[xXSunSlayerXx]

If your opponent has 4 ME109s and a serious ground-presence, you put way too little pressure on him. Probably by buying too much artillery and using it inefficiently. Try to deal with the phase A 88s more effectively. Smoke them with mortars (almost every Allied division has something to smoke them at max range), then close the gap with your other units. At close range, the 88 loses its biggest advantage, and it cannot really run away either. Killing even one 88 takes out pretty much half the opponents map presence, and should give you a sizable advantage going into phase B.

 

[Gilmund]

Where am I bitching in my post? I asked a ligetimate question and you do a 180 and have a attitude about it.

No you bitching, it is maybe your third or fourth post on the subject of 16th Luftwaffe, you don't give a shit about the advices we give you, you don't wanna up and give replays for us to see, you just want nerfs cause you canno't handle it. Sorry to build an attitude but you're just so dishonest about this subject it is hard to stay calm.
Hell, you previous post was even named "When 16th luftwaffe is getting a nerf ?" Dare to tell me i'm wrong.

facmanpob answered perfectly, two 88's and four 109 planes from phase A are equal to 1020 points out of 1500. Meaning it is impossible for a 16th luftwaffe to have a lot of ground units on the field, even if you havn't managed to kill any of them. It is just mathematical.
You just sitting all your units behind treelines or what ? 16th Luftwaffe is extraordinary weak in phase A, like Lehr.

 

[Gilmund]

You can spend some pts from starting 500.

If you take the two88's he is bitching about, it equals 260 points. You add only one plane from the start, it is 190 points. You already are at 450 out of 500 points. You may bring 2 25 points lw-jager as infantry or 1 40 points recon and not even arty. So you see...
No 16th luftwaffe player brings a plane from the start if he has to keep a frontline.

 

[ZhukoDim]

16th Luftwaffe is extraordinary weak in phase A, like Lehr.

 

[LegioX]

If you take the two88's he is bitching about, it equals 260 points. You add only one plane from the start, it is 190 points. You already are at 450 out of 500 points. You may bring 2 25 points lw-jager as infantry or 1 40 points recon and not even arty. So you see...
No 16th luftwaffe player brings a plane from the start if he has to keep a frontline.

You really need a hug. It’s ok

 

[LegioX]

No you bitching, it is maybe your third or fourth post on the subject of 16th Luftwaffe, you don't give a shit about the advices we give you, you don't wanna up and give replays for us to see, you just want nerfs cause you canno't handle it. Sorry to build an attitude but you're just so dishonest about this subject it is hard to stay calm.
Hell, you previous post was even named "When 16th luftwaffe is getting a nerf ?" Dare to tell me i'm wrong.

facmanpob answered perfectly, two 88's and four 109 planes from phase A are equal to 1020 points out of 1500. Meaning it is impossible for a 16th luftwaffe to have a lot of ground units on the field, even if you havn't managed to kill any of them. It is just mathematical.
You just sitting all your units behind treelines or what ? 16th Luftwaffe is extraordinary weak in phase A, like Lehr.

I was talking 4 109s in deck. Not using them at once. Basically he has the ability to counter artillery early without much AA on ground

 

[Gilmund]

I was talking 4 109s in deck. Not using them at once. Basically he has the ability to counter artillery early without much AA on ground

I still wait your replays. You wanna start these shitty one sentence answers, let's go ahead : basically you have the ability to counter everything he throws at you properly without using costly units. Take that, huh.

Let's just talk once again about smoking the 88's line of fires (unable to move quickly to take other positions), arty, fire positionning. In few words, rush him with better infantry (lw jager is crap dishartened infantry with mg34 you panick twice quickly).
Then it's like an armor deck, if you let a lehr player sitting and build his panther strength, he'll crush you anytime in phase C. If you let a 16th luftwaffe build his 88's and plane strength he'll crush you with his ability to bring one 88 per tick in phase B and his air superiority.

You disable the two 88's in early A and 16th Luftwaffe is done, plain and simple. Plus, 88's are just good in very open maps situations in certain parts of maps (like carpiquet airfield, center of Colombelles, open part of Odon River, Cheux). But the bocage prevents you to really use the deck most of the times.

 

[Alex646]

And have what for ground units?

310 pts, at least.

If you take the two88's he is bitching about, it equals 260 points. You add only one plane from the start, it is 190 points. You already are at 450 out of 500 points. You may bring 2 25 points lw-jager as infantry or 1 40 points recon and not even arty. So you see...
No 16th luftwaffe player brings a plane from the start if he has to keep a frontline.

Do you seriously think that topicstarter said about buying 1 88 and 2 planes from start?

I was talking 4 109s in deck. Not using them at once. Basically he has the ability to counter artillery early without much AA on ground

 

[roirraw]

I think the 109 bombers are more important for the 16th in A phase then 88s. You can set traps for any early armor/vehicles with other, cheaper, units and start the timer on the 109s reloading. They deal constant, accurate, damage that has the potential to kill up to medium armor with a direct hit from one of them, I've seen it happen. The allied counterpart is the P 47s from 2nd ID with a single bomb.

You can easily fill the same AA role in A phase with with Flak 43 37 x2 or the Flak Bren Carriers that can also double as some mobile veteran firepower that is really lacking in the early game.

Anyways, you should be pushing the entire line of a 16th player in A phase. Once you locate that 88, you can keep pushing around it's line of sight.

 

[Nordhammer]

310 pts, at least.
Do you seriously think that topicstarter said about buying 1 88 and 2 planes from start?

This latest topic started with "Their x4 109 bombs really hurts any phase A arty counter to their 88's. All their inf have AT capabilities so i can't rush certain areas like i can against 17SS."

The opening poster has sought out advice in another previous thread,one he started.The forum community gave him plenty of very good advice on how to counter the 16th Feld's strengths and how to exploit it's weaknesses .

If the poster would include replays,instead of starting multiple threads decrying the 16th Feld, then perhaps the forum community could provide even more in-depth tips & tactics to improve the poster's game against the dreaded 16th Luft Feld Div.

 

[PanzerMan7]

OP should provide a replay. I don't understand why he refuses. They're all already saved anyway.

 

[Gilmund]

Do you seriously think that topicstarter said about buying 1 88 and 2 planes from start?

He has spoken himself about plane A bombers hurting any phase A arty, not me. Do you mind if i do the correct assumption plane A bombers come in phase A to hurt phase A arty brought to hurt phase A 88's ? Or do you take me for a fool ?
If you have no 88's nor planes from the start you canno't deal with, how the hell is 16th luftwaffe a problem to make ground ? There is nothing else in the deck to prevent you of advancing your own troops against him, except of the two 88's it is one of the weaker decks in phase A, i say it again (and it should because 16th have good phase B and C). 88's is the huge asset of this deck and consequently everyone is using them. Planes are another big asset (but obviously not really quickly used in the first ticks in A for obivous need of infantry and arty to fix lines).
But planes are very costly and you canno't have 130 points 88's, 100 points arty and 190 points planes in numbers and all at once. It is my point entirely.

Imo the original poster doesn't want any advice in this matter to search to improve his own game, he keeps purposely describing his games in very few words and in matter of 16th luftwaffe needing a nerf instead of describing precise encounters and providing replays seeking solutions. He doesn't want to find solutions, he just wants to bitch to get a nerf.

To say 16th luftwaffe is painful to deal with and would necessitate a bit of tweak is one thing, to say it's op per se is another. It is not. Especially in phase A ! Phase A is its weaker phase. When you deal with 4 88's in phase B advancing on the same line and you facing a 16th luftwaffe player with the ability to bring one 88 per tick, it starts to be impossible to counter, but in phase A 16th luftwaffe is seriously manageable and should be crushed.
If we start to call for nerfs cause of strenghts i'll ask to nerf 101st airborne flamethrowers in towns and forests cause obviously "you're screwed" when you meet them lolilol...

Start to figure how to counter things and play differently instead of bitching maybe.

 

[LegioX]

OP should provide a replay. I don't understand why he refuses. They're all already saved anyway.

B/c i have been AFK the entire day.