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HoI 4 Dev Diary - Communist China

Hello, and welcome back to another Dev Diary covering China. Today, we are taking a look at Mao Zedong, and the country recently renamed to “Communist China”. As a little treat, we will also show you how crazy you can really get with the new decision system (spoiler alert: pretty crazy).

Given the overall situation in China in 1936, the Communists certainly weren’t anyone’s favourite to win the Civil War. Mao and the Red Army had barely escaped encirclement and destruction in Jiangxi, being forced on the famous Long March that carried them to Shanxi to a new Base Area. There, they tried to recover their strength and prepare for the next showdown with the forces of Chiang Kai-Shek. Japan loomed in the background, and the basic question was simple: Who would strike first?

Capture_intro.JPG


This question formed the core of the strategic deliberations the Party found itself in. If Japan struck first, then an alliance with the Nationalists would be necessary to present a United Front to the enemy. If Japan remained passive, then the efforts should be directed against the Nationalists. And while Mao had emerged as supreme in the internal factional struggles during the Long March, he was far from safe. Others may well try to usurp his position, advocating different paths to achieve true communism.

Capture_zhang_lan.JPG


When war actually came, it came from the Japanese. Mere months earlier, one of Chiang’s top generals had taken matters into his own hand and forced Chiang (more or less at gunpoint) to sign an alliance with the Communists (this Xi’an incident is represented in game as a decision the warlords can take - which we thought worked better from a gameplay perspective than a random event that fired at some point). Finally together in a United Front, both sides lost no time in undermining the spirit of the treaty while staying true to the letter. By 1940, the United Front had become more or less a formality.

Looking at the focus tree, you will note that the Communists share the right hand side of their tree with the Nationalists (modders will be pleased to hear that we now have something called a “shared focus” in script, which does about what you’d think it does). Since the the opening missions to the various countries depend on either having the same ideology or very good relations, the Communists start in a somewhat weaker negotiating position than the Nationalists. But changes in the global situation might give you new opportunities - for example if, say, Japan were to fall to communism…

prc_tree.jpg


On the left side, the tree deals with the various internal factions in the Communist Party, from Mao and his allies to the Soviet-trained and backed faction under Wang Ming to an attempt at less radical “Social Democracy” under Zhang Lan. In the center, you are presented with the mirror of the choice facing the Nationalists - do you focus on the Japanese threat, or do you try to take the fight to the other Chinese factions and try to gain supremacy before Japan comes knocking?

Representing the Chinese Communists contribution to the war presented us with a bit of a problem - they didn’t engage in open warfare for the most part, and our systems are not really made to represent offensive guerilla warfare. We wanted to give the Communists a real shot at winning the Civil War without having to resort to the clumsy and counter-intuitive system used in vanilla, where you boost party popularity in China to flip states to your side.

So a few late-evening “design meetings” (beer may or may not have been involved) later, we came up with the Infiltration/Uprising system, which is a unique mechanic for the Communists. At the most basic level, it was supposed to let you pay infantry equipment to infiltrate a state. By itself, this does very little - but when you trigger the Uprising, the states you have infiltrated will flip to your side. Depending on your approach, this can cripple the other side’s war economy and strand a large part of their army in enemy territory.

infiltration.png

(numbers are not final)

While we did want this to represent the ways the Communists executed their strategy of People’s War, building base areas from which to wage guerilla warfare, we also didn’t want to leave the other side without any way to counter the infiltration. So the infiltrated player can spend resources to try and uncover your infiltration, and, if discovered, to counter it.

We then expanded the system a bit further to make infiltrating a state not just a binary infiltrated/cleared state, but actually allow you to build up a Base Area in several levels. On the most basic level, your soldiers merely sabotage infrastructure and factories when you trigger the uprising. On the higher levels, the state flips to your control and on the highest level even spawns militia units to defend it.

We then adapted this system to also work against the Japanese. Countering infiltration does not remove it instantly, but only reduces the level of infiltration. It is always worthwhile, but it may not be enough.

Note that this system is still in testing and might change before release.

But opposition and warfare is not the only way you can win the Civil War. We really wanted to explore how the Communists could have secured their influence through political means, which brings us to the second unique China mechanic: Political Support.

support.png

(numbers are not final)

When the Communists decide to go down the “Social Democracy” branch of their focus tree, they will eventually form a coalition government with the Nationalists, which will begin a power struggle between the two parties. You can then spend political power over a number of days to build your power base in different states. Each state represents a support value, and securing the support of other warlords adds even more support. Once you have more support than the Nationalists, you can make a push for taking over the entire country, eventually annexing all of China after Chiang Kai-Shek suffers an...accident.

The Nationalist player, of course, has ways to counter this, but with political power scarce, eventually something will have to give. Note that you can pursue both approaches at the same time to keep the Nationalists guessing.

More details on how we did this will have to wait until a future diary, in which we talk more about the scripting behind the new features.

That’s all for this week. Next week we will talk about Generals, and why we have been looking at their family tree. For now, have a look at the awesome hats the Heroes of the Revolution wear into battle:

PRC_cavalry_infantry_02.jpg


Edit: We forgot to showcase some of the other new portaits for PRC, here ya go:
upload_2017-11-22_19-7-0.png


At 16:00 today, @Da9L and @podcat will show off the reworked German focus tree, attempt to kill Hitler and bring back the Kaiser! So check out the Paradox twitch today at 16:00 CET: https://go.twitch.tv/paradoxinteractive
 
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The most heartbroken thing with liu Shaoqi is, when he was detained by red guards, he took out the Constitution and said: "I am the President of People's Republic of China, I am protected by the Constitution." But what he got was only laughing and mocking. Seriously, I don't like people stepping on laws.
And that's Mr. ZHANG!

Then they made poor Liu watch as they beat up and humiliated his wife, then Liu was locked up, denied medication and went insane. It was not a good time to live in China during the Cultural Revolution.

Peng died of the punishments inflicted on him. Sad that the PLA tried so hard to rescue him and to get him into a comfy cell, but ultimately failed. He went down fighting, though. There are stories that during interrogations, Peng would drown out the accusations by shouting counterpoints, yelling at his guards when they hit him for doing so, and slamming his fists on the table so hard the cell walls shook.

Thank you. Corrected post for proper term of address.
 
The most heartbroken thing with liu Shaoqi is, when he was detained by red guards, he took out the Constitution and said: "I am the President of People's Republic of China, I am protected by the Constitution." But what he got was only laughing and mocking. Seriously, I don't like people stepping on laws.
And that's Mr. ZHANG!

Well, he did embarrass Mao by ending the Great Leap Forward... And there was nothing Mao could have done to save him. After all, what possible control could the red sun of our hearts have over Red Guards... the devotees of Mao Zedong thought? They would never have listened to Mao.

It was all that evil Gang of Four's fault.

I read a declassified assessment bythe CIA of China's internal politics in the early 60's. It split the upper ranks of the CCP into the military characterized by Lin Biao, the scholar administrators (Zhou Enlai and Liu Shaoqi), and the economic pragmatists (Deng Xiaoping may have been in it.. but I can't remember.)

The CIA essentially thought that the latter two groups were working to elevate Mao into a purely ceremonial position to get him out of the day to day governing after the disaster of the Great Leap Forward. They thought he might ally with the military to prevent this, but didn't see much hope for Mao to defy the upper ranks of the party.

It's actually a testament to Mao's lateral thinking that he brought in a 4th player, the people, and then used them to destroy the party before they could elevate him out of governing.
 
I don’t seem to remember any of the previous DDs mentioning this, but is there going to be adjustments to the base PP gains? The new decision system seems to be taking its toll on what’s available atm.
 
I don’t seem to remember any of the previous DDs mentioning this, but is there going to be adjustments to the base PP gains? The new decision system seems to be taking its toll on what’s available atm.
Yes there will be.
 
I don’t seem to remember any of the previous DDs mentioning this, but is there going to be adjustments to the base PP gains? The new decision system seems to be taking its toll on what’s available atm.
When they showed national decisions mechanic, they said somewhere in the thread that they are looking into PP balance since it's going to have much bigger role and effect on the whole game.
 
There were called "vase" in Chinese, for the meaning of useless but essential.

Once I read from somewhere that "-ese" is a kind of discrimination to describe "the people in there are short", is that true? Seems we don't got any "-ese" in Europe.

Viennese for someone from the most illustrious Hapsburg capital of the Holy Roman Empire.

The Italians get a lot of -ese. Genovese, Milanese, Piedmontese(for Sardinia-Piedmont).

As has been stated, Portuguese, Maltese.
 
Given that there is a Chiang Kai-Shek assassination focus, I don't think she would like to made her sister's husband killed. What I suggested are all historical or historical-related, I never have a thought on either of the magical route. But anyway, restore Austro-Hungarian Empire is plausible, why not have a little more tolearance on ZhangLan? He was a great man, of course.

I have nothing against Zhang Lan. It's just I know him about as much as I know Mikhail Kalinin - not much apart from the beard. If we further add Shen Junru, Situ Meitang people get awfully confused. In fact I just found one page on sohu.com mistaking Zhang Lan for Shen Junru: http://www.sohu.com/a/190475135_424918

As for feelings Madame Sun Yat-Sen had for her sister's husband: She denounced him and openly opposed his marriage to her sister in 1927. Sure she didn't have a murderer in her, but neither did CPC attempt assassination against enemy officials. I thought we are in semi-fantasyland when discussing this branch?

A reason Zhang Lan feels odd is that he was leader of Chinese Democratic League, and started his political life as part of anti-Qing protesters. He never had anything to do with KMT. The way the branch is named feels like "leftwing KMT" was "social democrats". While apart from Madame Sun Yat-Sen, faces of leftwing KMT includes Li Jishen - a general; He Xiangning - a painter and feminist; Liu Yazi - Mao's poetry buddy and big fan. There isn't a lot to choose from.
 
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The Biography... Wild Swans is quite good and largely reliable. I haven't noticed any egregious errors in it.

The book that is trash is "Mao: the Untold Story." It's an anti Mao book written in the style of a Maoist polemic that someone would read at a self struggle session. The bottom line is that "Mao is evil" and every historical fact is marshalled towards that end.

It's not entirely useless, I read a historical journal article attacking the book after I read it... and one of the criticisms in the article was, "Jung Chang talks about the Communists growing and selling opium as if it was a huge secret, but it's long been known to China scholars."

I remember thinking... "Well, I didn't know that, so I found it useful."

Opium in Yan'an is quite widely known in China among enthusiasts. Perhaps not everyone you meet, though. The reactions are a plethora: some seek to disprove it, some hold on to it like some superweapon, some think it was not damning since everybody was doing it, and some only want to dig into the archives to get to the bottom of it.

I think the fact that PRC government derive a lot of popular support in harshly cracking down on dope ever since 1949 makes all but the purely scholastic interest into the issue redundant. If anything, it only shows PRC government thinks people are naive when they crack down on this information.
 
The people who went over to the CCP such as Zhang Lan and Soong Qingling were in essence useful idiots in the leninist parlance. They were given government jobs and not party jobs... which is great. And then you think about it for more than 2 minutes and remember that the government is subordinate to the party at all levels so these jobs were purely symbolic.

I've also always thought that Mao gets too much credit as a general. He wasn't in the field except during the Long March. What he did do was take what Peng Dehuai, Zhu De, Lin Biao, and the other Communist field generals were doing and then write it down in the masterful "On Guerilla Warfare." Trying to make Mao into an amazing general historically is like those people that argue that Sun zi must have been an amazing general because the Art of War is so good.

English conventions for naming people from different countries is weird and inconsistent. Generally, a country ending with an n, m or an a after one of those letters, will get the "-ese" ending (Chinese, Burmese, Japanese). A country ending in ia, will get an n tacked on (like Latvian of Russian).

Hong Kong is the only place in English that ends with ng... so it gets a special case.
Modern military affairs ever since Napoleon can hardly be attributed to one person, in most cases. Mao does not have sole authorship to modern guerrilla warfare - etymology of the term should make people realize it perhaps has to do with Spanish resistance against Napoleon and/or exploits of Giuseppe Garibaldi - but neither did CPC generals won the civil war without collaboration with the party leadership. If you need material help from the party, party has a say in how you spend it.

In understanding Mao's rise to power it is important not to forget that Mao was NOT someone chosen to lead - those whom Comintern were familiar with and those who have proletariat background took precedence. It was not until after everybody else were failing left and right did people realize Mao's troops secured the largest bases, became strongest among the red army fronts while taking most of the heat from KMT encirclement. After he later correctly predicted how the war against the Japanese would play out in 1938 and grew the 8th Route Army to a million strong under the nose of perhaps the most ruthless and skilled Japanese general at counter-insurgency, people start to believe in Mao as you would believe in a player who beats highest difficulty of games repeatedly - someone who always knows the best exploit in the game.

Unfortunately, Mao did not succeed because he had a scientific approach to politics; he simply believed in the right tool at the moment. Instigating people works wonder when you need to do a lot of damage, and sucks when you need to build. But that's for another story.
 
I have nothing against Zhang Lan. SNIP
Ha, that page is hilarious!

As for the HoI4 fantasy contents, communist China won't choose a social democrat to lead them. They are communists! But personally I don't care whether Zhang Lan or John Doe lead the communists. Just let him fly, in the world where Austro-Hungarian Empire is restored, Poland defeats German and Soviet, and our old Kaiser returns to his throne!:rolleyes:

Opium in Yan'an is quite widely known in China among enthusiasts. Perhaps not everyone you meet, though. The reactions are a plethora: some seek to disprove it, some hold on to it like some superweapon, some think it was not damning since everybody was doing it, and some only want to dig into the archives to get to the bottom of it.

Only Paradox players and history fanatics know the opium stuff. It can be searched and directly discussed, but the opinion on how the opium was used varys. Some even claim that Nanniwan wasn't like the scenery in the classical song people sing about it, that "cows and sheep are everywhere", but "opium are everywhere" instead, and there is a rumor that Zhang Side died in an opium production cave-house. Personally I don't believe opium can be produced in a cave-house, because the smoke won't be released in there, so it will definetly suffocate people who produce opium. Anyway, just cite a quote from Mao, "this is the only time in human history that opium can act as something revolutionary."