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Quite a lot to this update . and eeek - not a good battle result. Generally I would say more cavalry + more heavy infantry isn't a pleasant combination to face, but I will admit others are probably better versed in CK2 combat than me.
As to the demesne holding ... usually if it one of the limit I just run with it. But in a regency things work differently because the regent sometimes makes decisions on their own.
I went to check, Ferrara has been directly under the Pope twice, once briefly from 1309 to 1332 (Because Fresco d'Este was a sore loser) and then again from 1598 (When the last Duke d'Este died without heirs) to 1859. At least in the meanwhile we got the D'Este family. They proved to be quite the good amministrators, and two of the most important italian poems, "L'Orlando Furioso" and "La Gerusalemme Liberata" were written from authors under the D'Este protection.
However I have to mention that technically Ferrara was vassal of the Papal State since 774, when Charlemagne gave the lands to the Pope, that a couple of century later used them to vassallize Tedaldo, the nephew of the Emperor Otto I. However this feudal situation was only considered a formality except for the above events.
So yeah it was kind of a weird situation, and it became weirder in 1208 when Azzo IV d'Este managed to obtain the title of duke of Modena and Reggio, because that duchy was under the Holy Roman Empire, so he became vassal both of the HRE (in his role of Duke of Modena and Reggio) and of the Papal State (in his role of Duke of Ferrara).
I went to check, Ferrara has been directly under the Pope twice, once briefly from 1309 to 1332 (Because Fresco d'Este was a sore loser) and then again from 1598 (When the last Duke d'Este died without heirs) to 1859. At least in the meanwhile we got the D'Este family. They proved to be quite the good amministrators, and two of the most important italian poems, "L'Orlando Furioso" and "La Gerusalemme Liberata" were written from authors under the D'Este protection.
However I have to mention that technically Ferrara was vassal of the Papal State since 774, when Charlemagne gave the lands to the Pope, that a couple of century later used them to vassallize Tedaldo, the nephew of the Emperor Otto I. However this feudal situation was only considered a formality except for the above events.
So yeah it was kind of a weird situation, and it became weirder in 1208 when Azzo IV d'Este managed to obtain the title of duke of Modena and Reggio, because that duchy was under the Holy Roman Empire, so he became vassal both of the HRE (in his role of Duke of Modena and Reggio) and of the Papal State (in his role of Duke of Ferrara).
Very unfortunate turn of events with Rurik getting captured there. Certainly not a high point of the raid, but hopefully he'll make it out with no further wounds beyond his pride.
Ch 26 Q1: No Physician Slot? Despite having bought and (I’m presuming) had Reaper’s Due load, no slot appears on the ‘minor appointments’ tab for a doctor, or in the decisions box. Is there something else that has to happen or I’m meant to do first to get one? I tried a quick google search that didn’t tell me much at all.
As this issue has already been solved, mooting this mote any further would be... moot
Ch26 Q2: The Battle of Volterra – what went wrong? OK, time for the post-mortem. Over-confidence here has been met with a cruel riposte. It would have been bad enough had it just been the lost troops, which was what Rurik had (until then) been widely trying to avoid. Even though Pisa had yet to deliver all its riches, the troops could – and in retrospect should – have dashed back to the ships to ply their trade elsewhere. But I wanted to have a battle and see if the enemy could be seen off. My two working theories are the heavy, pike and cavalry discrepancies pointed out earlier; and the dreaded ‘loaded centre wing’ that saw Rurik defeated in Ingria during the war against Pskov, allowing the raiders to be defeated in detail. Any views, learnings, advice, etc anyone has on the circumstances of this ignominy would be appreciated! Blunders no doubt made, but that’s the whole idea – to learn and do better next time.
Those are almost certainly the two biggest factors contributing to the outcome. Not only do all three troop types outmatch light infantry man-for-man in at least one phase of combat each, but having the right troop types in particular proportions can allow their commanders to execute particular battle tactics that play even further to their strengths. The Italians in particular have access to the culture-specific "Pike Column Advance," which makes their Pikemen especially deadly. (As always, the scrolls of Wiki the Red have the details if you're curious about what goes on "under the hood.")
Ch26 Q3: Demesne Holding Penalty. Is that the way to handle it? No precipitate divesting of county titles? Or are the effects more dire, if it goes on for a while, than I’m anticipating?
As others have said, it shouldn't be too much of a problem to go a little bit over for a short period of time. Your chief worry right now is that, since Rurik is stuck in prison, your regent will notice that you're over your limit, and (with the best of intentions or otherwise) will start giving away your lands to random strangers.
Speaking of which...
Ch26 Q4: Straight home or raid on the way back? There is not much doubt in my mind the fleet must now return. But is the risk of having Rurik in captivity for as long as it would take to hit a few target along the way unreasonable? After all, the money is sorely needed. But in the meantime, his authority is diminished and the vassals will be getting restless, while jail is a threat to his health. Needless to say, any raids that might be done on the way back would be purely loot and scoot. Advice I should have stuck to in Pisa! You live and learn.
Get him out. Get him out as soon as you can feasibly manage. "Jail is a threat to his health" is an understatement if ever there was one -- there is literally nothing stopping Rurik's captor from torturing or executing him since you don't get tyranny for doing those to foreign prisoners. The chance that he'll actually do it is (relatively) small on any given day, but do you really want to dice with Death when the dice are already loaded against you?
And once you've gotten Rurik out, count your blessings that he didn't fall into the hands of the Greeks.
Hel, the Goddess of the Underworld, has taken her share of Norse warriors these last days. The raiders hope she does not also claim their King before he can be ransomed. And Rurik hopes her secret minions in the world of men do not run riot while he is incarcerated in Italy.
Ch26A Q1: Education Focus.Perhaps this only matters once the children turn six, which is why Asa only came up on the alerts. In any case, while I was at it I set the others as well, thinking it couldn’t do any harm. Does the learning focus have an effect from the start – the focus slot certainly let me set it – or is it immaterial until they get to the right age? Just curious.
As a general rule you can afford to let it slide until you get the prompt, since the game doesn't actually start the education regimen until they reach the proper age anyway (according to the wiki, at least). Just keep in mind that once you set a Childhood Focus, it can't be changed (outside of a couple edge cases) until the child reaches the age of 12 and begins the "vocational" stage.
Another update where I've nothing much to add. However, I'll say that with education I like to wait for the prompts so that I can pick directions that seem to match their strengths thus far.
Military Council of 5 January 877 (a summary of advice from Chapter 26)
Military Council of 5 January 877 (a summary of advice from Chapter 26)
Things have recently taken a radical turn in the story of the Rurikids. The more ignominious pieces of this history have to be derived from other private or ‘non-official’ sources, as the Chronicles were more of a semi-historical hagiography of the dynasty’s founder. Here, we are given an insight into the advice being provided to those [or more accurately the hapless newbie ] guiding the fortunes of the dynasty.
Rurik hopes he doesn’t remain in Adalberto’s dungeon for as long as the prisoner in the cell next to him!
Also, there CAN be circumstances where you marry someone with lands you want, as long as you are willing to wait (say they are female, and you male). Eventually inheritance can bring it in, though this tends to be more helpful inside of larger realms, to consolidate your power/make a play for the crown. Naturally higher level titles like Duke or King are more attractive targets with this strategy.
EDIT: Crown focusing is useful only when you're willing to build up the counties you have and you've basically decided which cluster of them you want to keep. When you've done that, then focus of course on building tall and making them the best in your realm. I tend to only switch crown focusing when I get a new ruler. Improving one county over the course of a reign is a pretty good goal unless you are very rich (it was a mark of how brokenly wealthy Albion was, before I decided to invade mainland Europe and establish standing armies, that I could improve multiple places in the Crownwall at once. But once you start building, it gets more expensive but also easier. Your personal tax base will sore and you will have many, many more troops than your vassals which makes it easy to win wars by yourself which boosts prestige and keeps them happy.
All sounds logical. That’s what I’m going with Holmgarðr and Ladoga, Rurik’s two original counties and the ones that have been developed most to date. Will see how events transpire – some other of the core counties could also receive similar treatment.
[Re Doges] That is indeed more Venetian, the Duchy of Ferrara had a long history but being under a Doge was never in the mix, as far as I remember (we have been under the Pope for a few centuries though).
Very unfortunate turn of events with Rurik getting captured there. Certainly not a high point of the raid, but hopefully he'll make it out with no further wounds beyond his pride.
Ch 26 Q1: No Physician Slot?Despite having bought and (I’m presuming) had Reaper’s Due load, no slot appears on the ‘minor appointments’ tab for a doctor, or in the decisions box. Is there something else that has to happen or I’m meant to do first to get one? I tried a quick google search that didn’t tell me much at all.
AND you can't hire a Doctor? Tsk, tsk. That last part is part of the Reaper's Due DLC. Unless you have that you will have to pretend germs don't exist. Hehehehe!
I thought all the physician's reports and cures I've read about in other AARs are character drama and comedy gold - so I couldn't resist, despite the gameplay price.
As noted before, all was fixed eventually, but I had to get Steam and Paradox talking to each other. They were a bit reluctant and it was a little tedious for a while. But they kissed and made up in the end.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch26 Q2: The Battle of Volterra – what went wrong?OK, time for the post-mortem. Over-confidence here has been met with a cruel riposte. It would have been bad enough had it just been the lost troops, which was what Rurik had (until then) been widely trying to avoid. Even though Pisa had yet to deliver all its riches, the troops could – and in retrospect should – have dashed back to the ships to ply their trade elsewhere. But I wanted to have a battle and see if the enemy could be seen off. My two working theories are the heavy, pike and cavalry discrepancies pointed out earlier; and the dreaded ‘loaded centre wing’ that saw Rurik defeated in Ingria during the war against Pskov, allowing the raiders to be defeated in detail. Any views, learnings, advice, etc anyone has on the circumstances of this ignominy would be appreciated! Blunders no doubt made, but that’s the whole idea – to learn and do better next time.
Surrounded by enemies. Not good. Thinking you have enough time to siege out regardless. Common miscalculation. Should have abandoned the non vital siege and played chase with the Italians until last they're wildly out of position. Then you go for it (you have boats and they don't after all). In terms of unit composition. If you're going up against horses and they outnumber you and you aren't a pike army or across a river from them, you'll probably lose.
Yeah, raiding is hit and run, it doesn't make much sense to stop for fighting. If your enemy has enough men and confidence to march against you while you are raiding, I have found out they usually do because they have a good chance at winning. Otherwise they will unite and stare intensely at you hoping you will move away for fear of an attack. Rule of thumb when raiding: when they march, you get the hell out of that province, if possible to the ships.
Generally I would say more cavalry + more heavy infantry isn't a pleasant combination to face, but I will admit others are probably better versed in CK2 combat than me.
Those are almost certainly the two biggest factors contributing to the outcome. Not only do all three troop types outmatch light infantry man-for-man in at least one phase of combat each, but having the right troop types in particular proportions can allow their commanders to execute particular battle tactics that play even further to their strengths. The Italians in particular have access to the culture-specific "Pike Column Advance," which makes their Pikemen especially deadly. (As always, the scrolls of Wiki the Red have the details if you're curious about what goes on "under the hood.")
Thanks for confirming. I’ll look more deeply once I know/have experienced enough to know what I’m doing. Still learning to drive the car at this point!
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch26 Q3: Demesne Holding Penalty.Is that the way to handle it? No precipitate divesting of county titles? Or are the effects more dire, if it goes on for a while, than I’m anticipating?
regencies seem to be by design broken and horrible things to deal with. Try to do what's best in the moment cos at any point your regent might decide to just fling the land away anyway. Or give it to themselves.
As to the demesne holding ... usually if it one of the limit I just run with it. But in a regency things work differently because the regent sometimes makes decisions on their own.
As others have said, it shouldn't be too much of a problem to go a little bit over for a short period of time. Your chief worry right now is that, since Rurik is stuck in prison, your regent will notice that you're over your limit, and (with the best of intentions or otherwise) will start giving away your lands to random strangers.
I have to hope Ingjerðr doesn’t do anything silly while Rurik is in the slammer! But I’ll try to keep all the royal holdings together for now. You will see Chancellor Hrörekr grappling with this issue in the next episode.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch26 Q4: Straight home or raid on the way back?There is not much doubt in my mind the fleet must now return. But is the risk of having Rurik in captivity for as long as it would take to hit a few target along the way unreasonable? After all, the money is sorely needed. But in the meantime, his authority is diminished and the vassals will be getting restless, while jail is a threat to his health. Needless to say, any raids that might be done on the way back would be purely loot and scoot. Advice I should have stuck to in Pisa! You live and learn.
Get the cash. He's either going to die in captivity within months or spend another forty year or so stuck there whilst the regency council destroys the Rus back home.
Go back home. Rurik is in the prison of a lord he has raided, and with Reaper's Due on, he is also at risk of catching something. You can come back raiding another time, but for now you need to carry the money your ship are transporting back home to pay Rurik's ransom.
Get him out. Get him out as soon as you can feasibly manage. "Jail is a threat to his health" is an understatement if ever there was one -- there is literally nothing stopping Rurik's captor from torturing or executing him since you don't get tyranny for doing those to foreign prisoners. The chance that he'll actually do it is (relatively) small on any given day, but do you really want to dice with Death when the dice are already loaded against you?
And once you've gotten Rurik out, count your blessings that he didn't fall into the hands of the Greeks.
Another for a quick return. There will be a chance to compare the detention regime of Florence to that of Greece in coming episodes …
We’ll soon see what unfolds. And it may end up being more complicated than any of us (me included) thought it would be!
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
Ch26A Q1: Education Focus.Perhaps this only matters once the children turn six, which is why Asa only came up on the alerts. In any case, while I was at it I set the others as well, thinking it couldn’t do any harm. Does the learning focus have an effect from the start – the focus slot certainly let me set it – or is it immaterial until they get to the right age? Just curious.
For focuses, the best ones are stewardship, and the second best is also stewardship. Really the only other good one is diplomacy, unless the kid already has random stat highs somewhere else and you want to make them the best at that stat. If you want to make a kid harmless and useful, train them in diplomacy. If you just want them to go away and do nothing, train them in a learning one.
As a general rule you can afford to let it slide until you get the prompt, since the game doesn't actually start the education regimen until they reach the proper age anyway (according to the wiki, at least). Just keep in mind that once you set a Childhood Focus, it can't be changed (outside of a couple edge cases) until the child reaches the age of 12 and begins the "vocational" stage.
Another update where I've nothing much to add. However, I'll say that with education I like to wait for the prompts so that I can pick directions that seem to match their strengths thus far.
Ah, all contributions gratefully accepted! Again, that is a wise piece of advice that I’ll do my best to follow.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
All: the next update will be out soon. There is much assessment and soul-searching done and decisions made in Nygarðr, the Ligurian Sea and in Florence. The next shorter (for me, anyway ) episode will be a scene setter for what then follows. and has been played through for about a year. There was too much to put into one chapter, so this next play-through will be either two or three episodes, depending on how the rest of the write-up goes – and what my characters have to say about their circumstances!
Once again, thanks to all commenters for sharing their thoughts and advice. I especially also welcome the nice amount of more general comments too – I value them just as much as the game-based advice, as I am also about telling a story as well as learning the game. Your involvement and wider readership of those who may not comment every time or at all really keep me going with this project.
And if there’s anyone out there reading along but who doesn’t want to be a general commenter, please still feel free just to drop a simple ‘subbed’ in – it’s really nice to know who might be out there watching. And just reading along is a very honourable and appreciated pursuit. There would be absolutely no expectation or pressure for more if commenting isn’t your thing. And, because this is also a narrative, plain story comments are very welcome: you don’t have to consider yourself a CK2 ‘expert’ to take part.
Chapter 27: Taking Stock and Changing Course (5 - 6 January 877)
Chapter 27: Taking Stock and Changing Course (5 - 6 January 877)
Previously, on Blut und Schlacht … Rurik languishes in a Florentine prison after a raid gone wrong and he has no way of knowing what the Queen or his men will decide to do about it; the Queen’s regency is looking rather ineffective as she tries to administer the realm from Constantinople and the vassals are restless and resentful; while the realm of Holmgarðr slowly gets exposed to more influences from the outside world – including the threat of epidemics and the need for a Court Physician.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
5 January 877, Nygarðr: Taking Stock
At the court in the Holmgarðian capital of Nygarðr, the Chancellor was briefly back in town from his duties in Belo Ozero. He acts on Queen Regent Ingjerðr’s orders, taking stock of the realm and also of the outside world, gathering information from experts and scholars.
His first step was to gauge the effectiveness of the Queen’s leadership and the perceptions of it by the key vassals. Not surprisingly, they were not happy. Taking Svetozar as a representative example, Hrörekr made his assessment: the same old factors of title claims and religion of course were still present. But by far the two biggest factors at play now were that he is demanding a seat on the council - not much chance of that happening, Hrörekr thought to himself - and now the ineffectiveness of the new Regency. The latter was reflected by the view held by all the vassals that, in the king’s absence, the amount of land in the royal demesne was too great. Particularly now that the Queen – still an outsider to them – was running them.
The Chancellor’s conclusion – which he provided in firm and frank written advice to the Queen – was that the King must be released from prison as a matter of priority. No matter the cost. This advice was sound and needed to be provided. Though he wrote later that judging by subsequent events he came to wonder at that cost - and its unexpected nature. But on 5 January 877 CE, in snow-bound Nygarðr, that all lay in the future.
The Chancellor also sought a report from Prince-Marshal Helgi on the state of the realm’s levies. Given news received [by very rapid courier] of the disastrous events at Pisa, the lack of heavy infantry in particular has now become a very serious concern. While a light infantry-based army seemed to be generally fine for fighting around Holmgarðr, it certainly couldn’t stand up to well-equipped European armies. Cavalry was another problem, but one more easily remedied locally by hiring mercenaries. These wouldn’t do for raiding.
Ch27 Q1: Heavy Infantry.This was raised much earlier in Rurik’s reign, but I’m really feeling the lack of HI capacity. Given the rudimentary tech and facilities this early in the Rurikid realm, are there any suggested courses or broad strategies for developing this capacity for the mid-longer term?
Next, Godi Þorolfr reported on his knowledge of the standing of the most authoritative religions. Of note, the two main denominations of the followers of the Crucified God both held great moral authority. The same applied to the two main branches of the Muslim faith – albeit the Sunnis were far more pervasive on the ground at this point compared to the Shia. After these, the next most prestigious religion was the mysterious Hindu faith of far-off India. Of the group of religions the others referred to as ‘pagan’, the True Germanic Faith was held the most authoritative – far more so than that of the Slavs, though the latter was more widespread.
The Godi believed (which Hrörekr mentally translated to himself as ‘hoped’) that this relative difference in authority might translate into more likelihood of conversion within the realm. It remained his most important mission among the people, as he continued to work to bring the common inhabitants of the capital province to the light of Odin. And he could at least boast one great achievement in that regard: the conversion of the heir to the realm from Slavic heresy to true Norse belief. Only one conversion, perhaps, but a vastly significant one, as the Godi was only too happy to point out.
Ch27 Q2: Province Conversion and Moral Authority.The Godi’s chief comparative religious scholar, Wiki the Red’s brother - Wiki the Holy – wrote: “High moral authority makes court chaplains more effective at proselytizing, and makes heresies pop up and spread less frequently.” This seems logical. But does the converse also hold true – does the Slavic religion having a lower relative moral authority to Germanic have an additional or compounding effect? Or is it immaterial (ie the MA being a ‘passive’ factor in that circumstance, just higher MA for the religion being converted to having a beneficial effect).
As Hrörekr prepared to turn his consideration to other matters, thinking the Godi finished, a stagey cleared throat and the sound of another scroll being unrolled drew his attention back.
“Ah, my good Godi,” observed the Chancellor, making a statesmanlike effort to keep any exasperation out of his voice, “do you have more you wish to impart?”
“Oh, there is always more, my dear Chancellor!” He hands the next painstakingly researched and delicately illuminated paper to Hrörekr. “While moral authority is very important for a religion and may help sustain or even expand its influence at the expense of others, the significance of a religion is specifically influenced by its pervasiveness and reach.”
“My scribes have shown here which religions are the largest. And some have established religious heads, you will note in the marginal comments. The Catholics are by far the largest known religion, as well as having the most powerful reputation. The Sunni too hold great influence and authority. The Buddhists make up somewhat for their relative lack of authority by their widespread reach. The Tengri and Slavs too have a wide reach – the latter in particular, of course, it is our great mission to reduce. After the Hindu and Suomenusko faiths, our True Germanic creed is the next most widespread, counting as the tenth largest religion in our known world. We must, of course, make it more so."
“Thank you Þorolfr, most informative. I’ll make sure all this is reported to the Queen regent.”
“Of course, Hrörekr. And I will be away, to offer sacrifice to speed the release of our great and zealous King from the cruel and shameful fate that has befallen him. I’m sure he will be released soon.”
“Yes, you do that, we need him back quickly, for a good many reasons. Good day to you.”
Hrörekr next turned to the resources of his own chancellery and scribes as he extended his consideration of the world outside to that of its renowned leaders. In terms of prestige, King Rurik – although still well-regarded [539 prestige], despite his recent use of his prestige for building purposes and his current imprisonment – does not even make the first page of the list provided. Though he would have figured on it at the time of his Exaltation among Men [ie as he reached the 1,000 prestige mark when satisfying that previous ambition].
King Árpád ‘the Victorious’ of Hungary has immense prestige and considerable territory to his name – the two clearly having gone hand-in-glove. A pity – but perhaps not a surprise – that he was less-than-willing to conclude a marriage alliance with what (to him) would appear to be a small, ‘backwoods’ barbarian realm on the margins of civilisation. Basileus Basileios of the Byzantine was next, with great reputation and even larger territories. And a leader Rurik’s raiders had alienated with their latest raids. Ah well, so be it!
Of note among the others is King Louis of Italy, another prestigious and powerful ruler Rurik has tangled with – to his regret, as he now languishes in the prison of one of Louis’ vassals, Adalberto, in Florence. Of the Norse leaders, King Björn Ironside (Ragnarrson) has the greatest cachet and the largest realm. Perhaps Rurik, or Helgi after him, may one day reach such heights, but most likely their need to use their prestige to build their realm for the long term will preclude them from featuring on it.
After briefly considering the rich and the pious of the world, the Chancellor next examined what the learned knew of the largest realms in the world. He saw a note appended to this list by one of his researchers – another of the well-known Wiki brothers, Wiki the Wise:
“Realm size is the total number of settlements (castles, cities, temples, and tribes) in a realm. It is useful for estimating a character's approximate power; the larger the realm, the more powerful they generally are. However, buildings can change this power-balance a lot. Our own current realm size is assessed under this criterion as 13.”
So again, the young kingdom of Holmgarðr did not feature on the first page of this list either – perhaps it may one day, as Rus. According to his experts, it was not the great empire of Byzantium that was the largest, but some distant realm in India called Kosala. Fortunately, of those remaining at the top of the list, none were close neighbours of Rurik’s realm, though Hungary and Byzantium loomed large in the middle distance.
There was however one measure by which Rurik could be judged as a powerful lord in the known world: that of personal demesne. His personal holdings ranked higher than most, which could provide the springboard he needed to propel the realm into a brighter future. And to keep troublesome vassals in check. Whether his successors – or indeed he himself - would be able to maintain such a position of course remained to be seen. Especially with gavelkind succession laws.
Looking at the armies available to the world’s realms, Hrörekr again looked at these not just out of interest and as a yardstick to compare Holmgarðr’s standing with that of others, but also to check for any proximate threats. And again, while this list made for interesting reading, none of the great military powers on the were neighbours of their own realm. Which was just as well, with the recent losses in Italy once again reducing their lightly-armed levies to well fewer than 2,000 again. Raiding (with more care in the future) and local conflicts for expansion they should be able to manage. But much more than that and Holmgarðr would struggle. Which meant being prudent, picking the right fights and cultivating some more powerful allies, if possible. And keeping enough gold handy to hire mercenaries in an emergency.
Of the very many wars, both grand and petty, known to be going on around the world, one was fairly close by and of some relevance in the view from Nygarðr. High Chief Sol of Pecheneg, who it was planned would one day be the father-in-law to Rurik’s young daughter Iliana, had been attacked by High Chief Tatimir of Chernigov, off to the south of Konugarðr. Unadvisedly, it would seem! This is reassuring news, of which the Regent would be happy to hear.
His reading done and report to the Queen Regent completed, Hrörekr could only wait for news from Italy – about their King and regarding what decision those left in charge of the raid.
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
5 January 877, the Ligurian Sea: A Course is Plotted
As Rurik's nominated deputy, Sverker has assumed command of the raiding group. Chief Vsemil of Belo Ozero has been promoted to take the vacant command slot left by the glaring absence of King Rurik. Sverker conferred with Dan and the other key officers to determine what they should do next. Gumarich, who had escaped capture in the disorganised retreat from Pisa, was there to record proceedings:
“Men, we must decide quickly,” says Sverker firmly. “Our King has by now been spirited away, inland to Florence. Well beyond our now badly shortened reach. The best we can do to release him now is to take our loot home, cash it in and pay the ransom demanded, though it is high and will drain almost all we have fought so hard to gain. We have discussed this at length but must now decide.”
“You know my views,” offers Vsemil, the only man present who was a sworn vassal to Rurik, but also a fiercely independent – and Slavic – Chieftain in his own right. “Yes, we must do what we can to see the king rescued from his current shameful imprisonment. I’m still not sure how he allowed himself to be captured so.”
Vsemil held up his hands and nodded in response to some of the murmurs of disapproval and tightening of hands on hilts around the crowded deck of the longboat. “But be that as it may, I’m sure there is a reasonable explanation and rescue him we must. But I do think the realm itself needs more from this raid than a bare breaking even. We can at least raid a few locations quickly on the way back."
"What harm will come to a hardy warrior such as our King during a few extra weeks of captivity," he continued. "I’m sure they will treat him humanely enough. After all, these Italians count themselves ‘civilised’ and they will want to collect the considerable ransom they have asked. They cannot do that if he dies – or is ... despoiled.”
Dan speaks up: “You make some valid points, Chief Vsemil, but I must disagree with you on others. Disease and mistreatment may take their toll. And the effect of a prolonged captivity on such a proud leader as our King should not be underestimated. The money can be regained later and the realm needs him back. And remember, if he dies in captivity the bond that holds these ships will be dissolved. We may be stranded a long way from home. And even if not, our captains will simply return us home and then be on their way, oaths discharged. Our days of large free-ranging raids by sea would be over, for many years to come, until we can build a fleet of our own.”
There is much nodding and expressions of support for these words. Vsemil, having said his part, says no more. All look to Commander Sverker.
“I agree with Dan in this. Our first duty is to our sworn lord, which in this case is synonymous with the best interests of the realm. We start the long voyage home, as quickly as sail and oar can bear us.”
The raiding fleet sets sail for home, 6 January 877 CE.
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6 January 877, Florence: Rurik Considers His Position
Rurik found himself rapidly removed from Pisa to a dungeon in Adalberto’s ducal capital of Florence. The taunting of his captors and the squalid conditions were not befitting a king such as himself. The Duke may be a craven drunk, albeit a proud one. But this was a civilised city in a civilised realm. And the Duke had no cruel or depraved reputation.
Perhaps he would be amendable to a request for more improved accommodation while the ransom is gathered? Rurik thought to himself. If I continue to rot here who knows what may happen to my health in this pit of disease and filth. I can at least ask – he may say no, but is unlikely to execute me given how much would be paid for my freedom. He summons one of the guards.
“Please pass on my request to your noble lord, the Good Duke Adalberto, begging his indulgence, for more suitable quarters befitting my rank.”
The guard sends a vile stream of green spittle in the direction of Rurik’s bare and manacled feet, splashing them with the noisome ichor. “If you ask it, King Cuckold. You had better hope the Lord Duke is not in his cups when he receives the request…” He leaves, uttering a vile cackle and hawking as he goes, having laughed so hard he sent himself into a coughing fit.
Disgusting hunchbacked creature, Rurik cursed to himself impotently. And that is a terrible 'mullet' haircut.I’ll be glad to get out of here – the sooner the better.
He awaits the Duke’s response. It is all he can do at the moment. And he wonders to himself: will the men head straight back on the long voyage home? And when they get there, will Ingjerðr authorise the release of all that gold for the ransom? I didn’t like the tone of that note she sent me …
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And so we leave this short ‘bridging’ chapter. We will soon learn how Rurik’s request was received by Duke Adalberto and receive news of other events on the seas and back home in Holmgarðr [which has already been played through for the next year, but there was too much to include it all in a single chapter.]
Questions
Ch27 Q1: Heavy Infantry.This was raised much earlier in Rurik’s reign, but I’m really feeling the lack of HI capacity. Given the rudimentary tech and facilities this early in the Rurikid realm, are there any suggested courses or broad strategies for developing this capacity for the mid-longer term?
Ch27 Q2: Province Conversion and Moral Authority.The Godi’s chief comparative religious scholar, Wiki the Red’s brother - Wiki the Holy – wrote: “High moral authority makes court chaplains more effective at proselytizing, and makes heresies pop up and spread less frequently.” This seems logical. But does the converse also hold true – does the Slavic religion having a lower relative moral authority to Germanic have an additional or compounding effect? Or is it immaterial (ie the MA being a ‘passive’ factor in that circumstance, just higher MA for the religion being converted to having a beneficial effect).
ᚔ ᚱᚢᚱᛁ ᚲᛁᛞ ᚔ
In Norse mythology, Njörðr is a god among the Vanir. Njörðr, father of the deities Freyr and Freyja by his unnamed sister, was in an ill-fated marriage with the goddess Skaði. He lives in Nóatún and is associated with the sea, seafaring, wind, fishing, wealth, and crop fertility. Rurik hopes for this more kindly manifestation of Njörðr.
Not the angry one!
Rurik’s beliefs held that Njörðr ruled over the movement of the winds, having the ability to calm both sea and fire, and that he could be invoked in seafaring and fishing. He further believed Njörðr was very wealthy and prosperous and could also grant wealth in land and valuables to those who requested his aid. In legend, Njörðr originated from Vanaheimr and is devoid of Æsir stock, and he is described as having been traded with Hœnir in hostage exchange between the Æsir and Vanir.
On this basis, Rurik silently invoked Njörðr to help grant him his freedom quickly and that his fleet would be given swift winds and a prosperous return to Holmgarðr. He promised with full zealous devotion that, should he be released alive, he would offer a great sacrifice in gratitude for the God’s intervention in the world of mortal men. He swore this solemnly on the World Tree. And Njörðr heard and noted this well.
As far as mid-long term HI is concerned, the single best thing you can do is embrace feudalism (as opposed to your current tribal government.) So long as you remain a tribe, you're going to be mostly stuck with light infantry and archers.
Regarding relative moral authority, I don't THINK it matters, but there exists a chance that I am wrong on that account.
Ch27 Q1: Heavy Infantry.This was raised much earlier in Rurik’s reign, but I’m really feeling the lack of HI capacity. Given the rudimentary tech and facilities this early in the Rurikid realm, are there any suggested courses or broad strategies for developing this capacity for the mid-longer term?
I can't remember whether there are buildings that boost heavy infantry numbers in tribal kingdoms. There probably are, but your obviously going to have less than a feudal system dependant on heavy infantry to exist. You can always conquer somewhere with loads of them like Ireland, England or Scotland.
Q1- Feudalism is really the only answer for HI. Upgrading your settlements will help a little, but it'll never match a feudal province. Tribes can pull men out of thin air, but they're poorly equipped. This is a decent historical representation of the fact that tribes would gather most of the fighting age men to war with whatever they had laying around, lacking the resources or organization to equip large numbers of trained soldiers.
Q2- There are a couple of factors to province conversion but the MA of the current province religion is not one of them. The MTTH is 960 months, or 80 years, but you can speed that up by having some of the following modifiers: Same culture or culture group*** drops that by a factor of .75 (it helps to settle tribes to convert culture first!!), same religious group halves it (Slavs and Germanic are both pagan so you've got this!), your moral authority at or above 60, .75 again, (penalty at 40 or below... ugh... 41-59 MA is no bonus or penalty), and your chaplain learning score. 4 or below penalizes your time, while 10 or above providing a bonus, with 13+ providing the best bonus (.31).
So, since Rurik is Norse you're not getting the culture group bonus to convert Slavic or Russian provinces. If the target is a pagan province, that will drop it to 40 years. You have no MA bonus or penalty, so chaplain skill is the biggest modifier you can control. A chaplain of 13 or above learning can drop it to 12+ years, at 10 skill to 30 years, and at 4 skill to 50 years.
Best case scenario with your current MA- settling a tribe, converting another pagan, with a 13 chaplain: Mean time to happen of 9.3 years. Not a guarantee of 9.3 years, but the odds will be in your favor
Clearly, chaplain skill is far and away the biggest modifier, and the only one that you can really control. It's also largely a "set it and forget it" type of ploy where you send the chaplain in and then forget he exists until a message pops up that he was successful and you go "Wow he actually did it. Time for another one!"
You've had a run of poor luck recently. I hope you can turn it around!
*** I can't recall if you get a .75 modifier for the same culture group and another .75 modifier for the same culture, or if it's one or the other. Haven't messed with religious conversion lately!!
This was raised much earlier in Rurik’s reign, but I’m really feeling the lack of HI capacity. Given the rudimentary tech and facilities this early in the Rurikid realm, are there any suggested courses or broad strategies for developing this capacity for the mid-longer term?
Checking the wiki page on tribal buildings, there's none that directly provide heavy infantry, though the levy increasing ones will boost your initial ones. By my math, they'll give you an extra two per county, so not much help. Your best bet is feudalism. Though you could also grab some coastal holdings and go merchant republic. A merchant republic with the ability to raid, no less.
The Godi’s chief comparative religious scholar, Wiki the Red’s brother - Wiki the Holy – wrote: “High moral authority makes court chaplains more effective at proselytizing, and makes heresies pop up and spread less frequently.” This seems logical. But does the converse also hold true – does the Slavic religion having a lower relative moral authority to Germanic have an additional or compounding effect? Or is it immaterial (ie the MA being a ‘passive’ factor in that circumstance, just higher MA for the religion being converted to having a beneficial effect).
@PVT Ascoobis went into the math already, so I'll just point out that it's documented on the wiki too. As well, I seem to recall that Norse being a disorganized religion tanks the county-conversion, but I could be wrong. If I'm right, it'll be clear from the nearly non-existent chances when you assign the Godi. Finally, when you form Rus, you might focus on converting Duke-level vassals (via direct persuasion or via the Godi) and let them use their Godis to convert provinces.
One other thing: in your screenshot showing vassal opinions, you'll notice that some of them have a red fist by their portrait. That means they're powerful enough to need to be on your council, and take a significant opinion hit if they aren't. I think one of the expansions or patches added that. In any case, you'll need to balance effective councilors with placating your powerful vassals with court positions. You should also have an 'advisor' position or two for placating especially unskilled ones.
a grim episode indeed. i hope the king has still some years to live, and if that florentine fancy pants duke treats him wrong has the chance to avenge it with blood and battle (and a good execution).
about the heavy infantry problem, if you do not want to become feudal for a reason (some nice bonuses for germanic pagans like the river navigation thing) maybe you can do what I did as a horse lord to solve the no ships problem. Just vassalize a nice big feudal duchy to provide you some heavy infantry and ask from them whenever you need some. not the ideal solution but can be worth a try if you have one such duchy around.
Ch27 Q1: Heavy Infantry.This was raised much earlier in Rurik’s reign, but I’m really feeling the lack of HI capacity. Given the rudimentary tech and facilities this early in the Rurikid realm, are there any suggested courses or broad strategies for developing this capacity for the mid-longer term?
As others have pointed out, the only true long-term solution to this is adopting feudalism. One near-term stopgap, however, may be to build up your retinue cap so that you can recruit a regiment of Housecarls. You won't likely be able to recruit very many this early in the game, but a single 200-man regiment should make a nice professional core of shock troops around which the rest of your army can gather.
The good news is that the major factors that determine your ruler's retinue cap are realm size, Military Organization level, and title rank, so you really don't have to deviate very far from your present course to get there
Ch27 Q2: Province Conversion and Moral Authority.The Godi’s chief comparative religious scholar, Wiki the Red’s brother - Wiki the Holy – wrote: “High moral authority makes court chaplains more effective at proselytizing, and makes heresies pop up and spread less frequently.” This seems logical. But does the converse also hold true – does the Slavic religion having a lower relative moral authority to Germanic have an additional or compounding effect? Or is it immaterial (ie the MA being a ‘passive’ factor in that circumstance, just higher MA for the religion being converted to having a beneficial effect).
As well, I seem to recall that Norse being a disorganized religion tanks the county-conversion, but I could be wrong. If I'm right, it'll be clear from the nearly non-existent chances when you assign the Godi.
Organized / disorganized status doesn't have direct bearing on conversion chance by itself, but organized religions benefit from a permanent +20% boost to Moral Authority, which makes it easier to keep their MA high. I've seen unreformed Norse have high enough MA to make some decent headway at conversion attempts, usually in the aftermath of the Sons of Lodbrok's British conquests (successful Prepared Invasions and county conquests each add to MA for a couple decades or so; individually they're not huge, but when the Norse get on a collective conquering spree, it can add up quickly).
And if there’s anyone out there reading along but who doesn’t want to be a general commenter, please still feel free just to drop a simple ‘subbed’ in – it’s really nice to know who might be out there watching.
That would be me. I like the idea of a Norse Rus - the real Rurikids lost their roots pretty quickly, and Orthodoxy eliminated any lingering Norseness (except in some of the names, like Oleg - not that most Russians would know that, anyway). It's one of history's neat what-ifs!
And of course, watching someone getting to grips with CK2 (although at times, it's more like CK2 getting a grip on you) is fascinating too.
That would be me. I like the idea of a Norse Rus - the real Rurikids lost their roots pretty quickly, and Orthodoxy eliminated any lingering Norseness (except in some of the names, like Oleg - not that most Russians would know that, anyway). It's one of history's neat what-ifs!
And of course, watching someone getting to grips with CK2 (although at times, it's more like CK2 getting a grip on you) is fascinating too.
Thanks so much for saying hello! I think Oleg may be derived from/the Russian version of Helgi, but am not sure. Will see how far I get with that alternate approach.
You are so right about CK2 getting a grip on me - both engagement with it and falling prey to its pitfalls. Just wait until you see the next chapter!
Ch27 Q1: Heavy Infantry.This was raised much earlier in Rurik’s reign, but I’m really feeling the lack of HI capacity. Given the rudimentary tech and facilities this early in the Rurikid realm, are there any suggested courses or broad strategies for developing this capacity for the mid-longer term?
Ch27 Q2: Province Conversion and Moral Authority.The Godi’s chief comparative religious scholar, Wiki the Red’s brother - Wiki the Holy – wrote: “High moral authority makes court chaplains more effective at proselytizing, and makes heresies pop up and spread less frequently.” This seems logical. But does the converse also hold true – does the Slavic religion having a lower relative moral authority to Germanic have an additional or compounding effect? Or is it immaterial (ie the MA being a ‘passive’ factor in that circumstance, just higher MA for the religion being converted to having a beneficial effect).
As far as I know all that matters is how strong your religion is, not how strong their is. Another good way is strategic conversion of vassals, since if you do that they will work too to convert the province, making your chances higher.
On this basis, Rurik silently invoked Njörðr to help grant him his freedom quickly and that his fleet would be given swift winds and a prosperous return to Holmgarðr. He promised with full zealous devotion that, should he be released alive, he would offer a great sacrifice in gratitude for the God’s intervention in the world of mortal men. He swore this solemnly on the World Tree. And Njörðr heard and noted this well.
Feudalism, feudalism is the way for strong armored warriors and stronger walls. It's always one of the things tribesmen should look for.
As far as I know all that matters is how strong your religion is, not how strong their is. Another good way is strategic conversion of vassals, since if you do that they will work too to convert the province, making your chances higher.
Luckily in CK2 boats are magical beings that can't be damaged by anything, so there will be no problem there.
Indeed (unless Rurik dies and the 40 event boats disappear). He’s really more hoping they don’t dawdle in the way back, leaving him festering in Adalberto’s prison for too long. That guard is a walking disease generator!
There will be more on conversion in the coming episode ... it is, after all, Rurik’s holy mission, and now Helgi’s too.
And yes, one day we aspire to feudalism and a
Reformed Germanic faith, in a united Rus. We can dream.
I actually don't really want to see the Rus adopt feudalism, just because of actual Russian history indicating that once they try it, they never let go.
Ever.
