An excuse I dare invoke for my behavior yesterday is that as a still relatively new player I didn't immediately realize what Wagon was doing and even once I did I still wasn't sure it was actually it. This excuse certainly does not work for a player such as aedan, who certainly understood what was happening at once given his vast experience of the game.
There was always the possibility the Wagonlitz was doing something dumb. He'd never done this before, either as a wolf, or as a JL villager. That I should've somehow seen through this and completely predicted that Wagonlitz was a JL member remains silly. The people who most likely would've seen through and know he was a JL member going after a wolf were in fact wolves themselves. At which point your whole little reasoning here collapses back in on itself, because if I'm a vastly experienced player who surely would've seen through what Wagonlitz was doing,
why on earth would I go and stick my neck out to save a packmate I "knew" had been scanned by a JL member, as your theory goes. That literally makes no sense. There was no way to save Alynkio under such circumstances and all I would do is put a massive target on my back. Not to mention, it's out of character for me to try to protect packmates anyways.
No, the people most implicated by the Alynkio affair are those who either blindly followed Wagonlitz (predicting that he had a scan on Alynkio), or those who followed me on Randy as a way to possibly save Alynkio while letting me take the bulk of the blame. Even the latter might not be the case if Randy turns out to be a wolf, because in that case, why would wolves try to save a potentially scanned packmate by driving up an unscanned one.
He tried to get the lynch off alynkio, and actively asked player to switch to randy based on a weak case.
Again with the claim that the Randy case was weak. It wasn't, and it isn't. Randy was making cases that, short on time or not, he should've known were poor. The hunt on Caillean was a potential point against him. And again, this isn't just me saying it to cover my behind, Wagonlitz also, twice, said that Randy was a good target to lynch. Even after he outed Alynkio, he still mentioned Randy (and you) as good potential lynches for today before mentioning me. Since we know Wagonlitz was a villager, and a JL member at that, him agreeing with me on Randy supports my position a fair amount.
Also, proposed to tie alynkio with another player saying that if alynkio was a baddie the village had nothing to fear from a tie, forgetting about the obvious threat of snipers.
That's just completely misinterpreting what happened, quite possibly intentionally. I posed that scenario (Alynkio being a baddie and in a tie) as something Wagon was ranting about defending against when Alynkio had 5 votes, Esemesas had 2 votes, and everyone else had 1. It would have been exceptionally difficult for four wolf snipes in that scenario to make a tie that didn't include Alynkio, and my point was to highlight that Wagonlitz was not being consistent in his determination to see Alynkio hang, but also unwilling to see him in a tie, which would've been fine if Alynkio was a wolf. This suggests that Wagonlitz was not being honest in his motives in running up Alynkio and his anti-tie rhetoric just an act to ensure Alynkio got lynched without opposition. Sure in hindsight that wasn't the case, but when suspicious activity happens, ignoring it is usually to the detriment of the village.
In any event, once the Randy wagon got going I explicitly mentioned that I would snipe to Alynkio if it seemed a tie might happen, so trying to claim I was indifferent to the possibility of a tie is baseless.
A case very similar to mine.
Not at all. I saw Wagonlitz acting out of character and being suspicious, so I tried to oppose him by lynching a candidate I saw as most suspicious. You saw Wagonlitz tunneling on your packmate, tried to vote Wagonlitz, attempted to ferret out information from Wagonlitz to find out if he was the Seer or merely a JL member, and then jumped on my Randy case when it gained traction. Very different cases.
The case you made here is boils down to "your cases are bad and you should feel bad". I agree he's not his usual self, but a baddie Randy is not a bad cases Randy. His posts just scream "I've no idea what's going on and need to get in a quick vote". Combine this with Caillean asking for sub because she's too busy and it's not much of a stretch to assume Randy's busy as well.
We've both seen baddie Randy and goodie Randy, and we both know that a baddie Randy is not an inacitve Randy, he's more competent than that.
You say the case is not based on his inactivity but on his wierd voting, but it should be fairly obvious that his bad voting is a direct consequence of his inactivity/not paying attention to the game. So it might not technically be a "lol he's a zombie" case, it IS for all intents and purposes.
I've already addressed this, but I'll give a quick rundown again. I'm not saying Randy is suspicious for inactivity. I'm saying he's suspicious because he cases are bad, even for inactive randy. Even inactive Randy does better than this. And the hunt on caillean at a point she was unable to contribute and asked for a sub could also point to Randy.
It is based on the same idea of "your cases are bad and you should feel bad", which is, based on previous experience with lynching people(and specifically Randy
) on the basis of inactivity, not a good basis for a lynch.
And that point you made there also ignores that Wagon thought you too, were suspicious, so if we were to consistently apply this "the JL thinks he's suspicious" blindly then you aren't exactly a bad lynch.
I never said to blindly follow Wagonlitz, you're just putting words in my mouth. My point in bringing up that Wagonlitz was also suspicious of Randy is that it bolsters my point that Randy is suspicious from an objective point of view. Wagonlitz is a confirmed goodie, so if he was saying Randy was suspicious then Randy was likely suspicious. You've acted like me being suspicious of Randy is a sign I was a wolf pursuing a bad case, but if the only known JL member agreed with my case, then maybe my case wasn't bad and I'm not suspicious for pursuing it. Wagonlitz has also played with Randy for a while, so he knows him better than you. I'm not saying this clears me, but trying to act like me being suspicious of Randy is a point against me is simply ludicrous in light of the facts.
That defense of yours also did not address the point of you lying low on day 1/2 and then sudenly springing into action when a wolf gets lynched. While of course not definite proof, it doesn't exactly work in your favour.
It's irrelevant and indicative of nothing. There's nothing to work with day 1, and day 2 doesn't add much, so I usually lay low on those days. Literally look at any recent game for proof.
On a different note, mind explaining why you think Yvanoff is more suspicious than you? I agree his PM schenanigans appear weird, but he at least has the day 1 votesnipe/tie prevention going for him, which is something I wouldn't understand a wolf doing.
How does that remotely count in his favor? Making an unnecessary tie day 1 would put a huge amount of attention on the responsible party, giving a big risk to whomever tried. Meanwhile piling on the main candidate for the day would prevent someone else from potentially being the subject of a last minute vote switch. Yvanoff jumping on the main candidate to ensure his lynch and calling it tie prevention does not remotely count in his favor.
And I know I'm a villager, so obviously I'm going to think Yvanoff is more suspicious than me. And as I mentioned to Yvanoff above, if I was a wolf who should've known that Wagonlitz has a JL member who had Alynkio's number, why would I have gone and stuck my neck out to run up Randy instead? That's not how I operate as a wolf, I don't try to save doomed packmates.
Also: what do you think of Dedonus and Alxeu/Ramius? What do you think of their involvement in what looks like an attempted packmate save.
Both of them are potential wolves. Neither of them have as much against them as Yvanoff, so I'm going after Yvanoff first, but both of them look bad for jumping on my randy case. Dedonus for following the person he had previously been voting, and Alxeu because the combination of Ramius' inactivity and erratic votes and Alxeu subbing in to immediately vote a wolf in the lead, then switching to the main counter candidate reeks of wolfishness. Still, I doubt they're both wolves, since all four wolves piling on to my Alynkio case seems unlikely in my opinion.
